quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) is a genetic abnormality; just as Downs Syndrome and many others. Does this mean that God created males, females, and others? No. God created them male and female (Genesis 1:27). When God created them male and female; He also created a perfect world for them to inhabit.
So, what went wrong? In creating male and female; God gave them free will; that they might choose to love Him on their own. God's love is perfect. Perfect love requires both a giver and a receiver. God's love for us is perfect; but, we must return that love to make it complete. Without free will, we could not return His perfect love. Without free will, we would be only robots or slave, forced to give love. Think about it. When you met your husband or your wife and fell in love, you offered your love to him/her. If your mate had been forced to love you in return; would that really be love -- or would it be rape or slavery?
God created male and female, gave them free will and asked for their love in return. In that free will, Adam and Eve also had the possibility of disobeying God; which is exactly what happened. Adam was disobedient to God -- and because of that disobedience many abnormalities came into being. The most obvious abnormality to be introduced through Adam's disobedience is death: both physical and spiritual. Also, man's environment was changed; he was expelled from the perfect Garden of Eden into the world which now had many hardships: hunger, hard work just to survive, illnesses, abnormalities, etc.
Down through the generations, the fallen body inherited from Adam has become vulnerable to many diseases, defects, and abnormalities. Is this of God's choosing or is this God's fault? No. Man, Adam and Eve, disobeyed God and brought this upon all mankind.
Is God just being nasty to impose such a punishment upon all mankind because of Adam's disobedience? Those of us who have children; when we give our children guidelines and rules by which they must live -- and they disobey and do something which is contrary to the rules of life we have established; what do we do? We punish them. Do we punish them because we enjoy it? No, we punish them to make them better people. This is what God has done for us. Adam was disobedient. God punished Adam, and his sin was imputed, or attributed, to us. However, then God gave us a way out of that punishment -- Jesus Christ.
God's solution for us -- is sort of like the parent who will punish little Johnny for doing wrong, by making him sit in the corner. Then, He comes over and gives little Johnny a soft cushion to sit on. That is our God; He punishes our wrong -- but, then gives us a marvelous cushion, Jesus Christ, to ease our pain.
I have known people who had CAIS; but, in those days medical science and psychiatry had not come up with the fancy names for it. When I was a teenager, we had a neighbor, a beautiful lady, whom I was told had this affliction. Her husband left her and she committed suicide. It was a tragedy. Was this God's fault? No. Yet, this lady suffered. Maybe, if she had known God, she would have had the strength to get through this bad time in her life. Can there ever be a better reason to evangelize, to share the Word of God with those who do not know Him?
Perhaps if the woman had been treated like a person instead a freak she wouldn't have been despondent. What would your advice had been to her, that God created her a man and she could blame Adam and Eve for her "affliction" as you call it?
I believe that it is people like you that cause such grief. You tell people like this that God loves them but hates their life. What life would you have had this women live? Should she have not had a husband?
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Logical, CAIS, like all birth abnormalities is so sad; but, just as the child born with Downs Syndrome is not another type of person; neither is the person born with AIS or CAIS.
Another type of person? Such comparison is absurd. Gender is simply a single trait. Is it a physical trait, a mental one< or a combination of both? How do you define gender, Bill? The Bible does not define gender. It merely says male and female.
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God created us male and female -- then, life happened. A person born with Downs Syndrome is not another gender; neither is a person born with CAIS. Their lives are much more difficult. They, of all people, need the love, peace, and comfort found only in Jesus Christ. But, they are not a third gender.
Comparing Down's Syndrome with CAIS is simply absurd. I disagree with your assertion that CAIS and related conditions are not genders other than male and female. Please give me the Biblical definitions of male and female and we'll see how it applies. If you can't give a definition then how can you make make such a claim? If you can, then we can test its accuracy.
You are right about their lives being more difficult. They are made more difficult by people like you.
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You tell me, "These are real people, with real lives, and you act as if they don't exist all. God knows his creation. He loves all of them and I do not believe he thinks them immoral."
You are so right. These are real people, with real lives, and with real pain and suffering. But, they can find peace and comfort with God. Yes, He does love them just as much, maybe even more, than He loves Bill Gray. Yet, we know that God's love is perfect and that there is enough of it to cover every single person ever born.
I believe that God loves everyone the with the same selfless love. I do not believe that amount of love varies from person to person. People like you do bring peace and comfort to such folks. You bring pain and condescension.
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Does God think that people with CAIS or people with Downs Syndrome are immoral. Absolutely not. Immorality has nothing to do with how you are born, or with what affliction you may have inherited at birth. Morality or immorality is what you choose to do with your life after you reach the age of accountability.
So, you STILL haven't answered the basic question I asked. You've danced around it, delivering various sermons, but no ANSWER. For a person with CAIS or similar conditions. Exactly what choice is the moral one? Was the lady you referred above immoral because she married a man?
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And, you say, "I believe the only sin here is committed by you."
Yes, I have and still do commit sins. But, praise the Lord, I am a forgiven sinner. However, there is one sin which I pray that I will never commit -- that is the sin of seeing someone dwelling in depression such as my neighbor who committed suicide -- and not telling that person about Jesus Christ and the love He has for him or her; a love that just might have prevented her final act of giving up on life.
And just what exactly would you have said to her if you could have? How exactly was she to live her life so that it would a moral one?
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Finally, you tell me, "My questions to Monette were about actions which could demonstrate one's sexual orientation and whether she truly believed that such things should be kept in the closet by *everyone*. You didn't address that either."
Well, I did. But, maybe you missed it. I do not believe that anyone, heterosexual or homosexual, should be showing too much affection in public. Get a room.
I don't believe that I did miss it. You jumped off the track, focusing on the degree of affection displayed. Especially extreme displays. The degree is irrelevant to the question asked. What you avoided answering was whether the same display of affection, regardless of degree, would be considered the same regardless of the displayed sexual orientation of the couple.
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Now, I am not saying that a couple, male and female, should not be affectionate in public. By all means, show your love and caring to the world -- hold hands, hug, give her/him an affectionate kiss, etc.
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And if a same sex couple should so the same? What would that be?
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On the other hand, heavy petting, open mouth kissing, groping, etc., are better left to the privacy of your home. None of us appreciate seeing this kind of lewd exhibitionism in public -- and it is out of place.
Logical, I pray that I have answered your questions sufficiently; and once more, I apologize for not responding before.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,