in my humble opinion, this is the most disgusting article i have read in years, it's unbelievable what our country has become, i can not for the life of me imagine a city or county fire department not responding to a house fire regardless of a stupid $75 fee. disgusting!!!
....Yes it is disgusting and very sad!quote:Originally posted by onepatriot7:
in my humble opinion, this is the most disgusting article i have read in years, it's unbelievable what our country has become, i can not for the life of me imagine a city or county fire department not responding to a house fire regardless of a stupid $75 fee. disgusting!!!
...for a measly $75.00 fee!!!!!
For those bashing the firefighters on the scene it isn't up to them, they too are just victims of the cities policies. I can nearly guarantee you that they wanted to put the fire out, even though the homeowner didn't want to support them ($75). Fire departments are run nearly like a military unit, what the officer says goes.
That said, even if a firefighter would rebel and want to attempt to fight the fire it would take one on the pump, two to enter the structure and another two standing by for relief/rescue to comply with 2 in/2out rules. So a total of five and you don't think the chief and other officers wouldn't have intervened? These five would than lose their job for a scrub that didn't want to support them.
Martyr-Although your math is horrendous, it takes ALOT of money to upkeep a fire department. New fire engines can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, new aerials can approach 1 million, gas/diesel, training, wages, insurance, equipment upkeep, foam, new equipment (hoses, fittings, nozzles, turnout gear).
I really enjoyed the quote of "I didn't pay it but I thought they would come out anyways", he was aware this could happen but he wanted to chance it. Also, I heard on the radio that this all started because they were burning things unattended, in fire watch/warning or red flag warning, bravo.
Although I'm critical of the homeowner, it's a shame this happened, thankfully this wouldn't happen in this area. We have fire fees set up in taxes and for whatever reason if you haven't paid your fire fee it will still get put out but you'll get a nice bill later (although I haven't ran into a situation where someone hasn't paid their fee and don't know how you would avoid paying it.).
Also everyone this is true and I hope everyone will support this, as I said it is very expensive to run a fire department. We haven't had a fire fee increase in a very long time. It is actually beneficial to vote yes on this, departments will be able to buy more equipment and lower ISO ratings which in turn dictact your homeowners insurance pricing. So you may in fact save money if you vote yes.
That said, even if a firefighter would rebel and want to attempt to fight the fire it would take one on the pump, two to enter the structure and another two standing by for relief/rescue to comply with 2 in/2out rules. So a total of five and you don't think the chief and other officers wouldn't have intervened? These five would than lose their job for a scrub that didn't want to support them.
Martyr-Although your math is horrendous, it takes ALOT of money to upkeep a fire department. New fire engines can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, new aerials can approach 1 million, gas/diesel, training, wages, insurance, equipment upkeep, foam, new equipment (hoses, fittings, nozzles, turnout gear).
I really enjoyed the quote of "I didn't pay it but I thought they would come out anyways", he was aware this could happen but he wanted to chance it. Also, I heard on the radio that this all started because they were burning things unattended, in fire watch/warning or red flag warning, bravo.
Although I'm critical of the homeowner, it's a shame this happened, thankfully this wouldn't happen in this area. We have fire fees set up in taxes and for whatever reason if you haven't paid your fire fee it will still get put out but you'll get a nice bill later (although I haven't ran into a situation where someone hasn't paid their fee and don't know how you would avoid paying it.).
quote:Originally posted by Stinky Inc.:
This is the reason that some counties have passed fire fees, which are collected as part of your taxes. I believe there is a proposal to increase the fees from $ 35.00 to $ 50.00 in some counties. As I'm usually not supportive of tax increases, this is one issue that I would vote in favor of.
Also everyone this is true and I hope everyone will support this, as I said it is very expensive to run a fire department. We haven't had a fire fee increase in a very long time. It is actually beneficial to vote yes on this, departments will be able to buy more equipment and lower ISO ratings which in turn dictact your homeowners insurance pricing. So you may in fact save money if you vote yes.
quote:Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
Leo
As much press as this has been given, if these folks couldn't pay, I'd be willing to bet that would have already come up.
Each community has to decide how they are going to address these type issues. This community made their decision, the residents knew what the expectations were, and some chose not to pay.
Sure, some may not have been able to pay, and we dont know how this community deals with those issues. They may have something in place that we have not heard about because its not part of the equation in this situation.
All that I have seen from the victims here was that they thought the department would respond even if they didnt pay. Not that they couldnt afford it. Unless I missed something (please post it if I did), I took it as they thought 'why pay when they will come anyway.'
Awful risky line of thought....
Jeepin'
I think I have to agree with you. It said the guy offered to pay for the cost of responding and fighting the fire. Therefore, he could afford the $75 fee. He chose to ignore the risk. Sorry but I have no sympathy for someone who figures someone will come along and bail them out because it's the "nice" thing to do. If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band.
The $75.00 fee is just a token amount...something to show the City is not providing free service to those who don't live within the incorporated area covered by the City. I doubt it pays the fuel for the number of trucks that respond to a structure fire, let alone the salary of the fire fighters, or the wear and tear on equipment.
Sorry...I can't generate any sympathy for the home owner; not when he's eat up with apathy towards the city, until a fire he set gets out of control and burns his house down.
Sorry...I can't generate any sympathy for the home owner; not when he's eat up with apathy towards the city, until a fire he set gets out of control and burns his house down.
I am still shocked at these responses. If the people in this thread are an accurate representation of the public as a whole, I have very little hope for our future as a society. I'm also afraid that the left is correct; the right really doesn't care about other people.
quote:Originally posted by dolemitejb:
I am still shocked at these responses. If the people in this thread are an accurate representation of the public as a whole, I have very little hope for our future as a society. I'm also afraid that the left is correct; the right really doesn't care about other people.
AINT THAT THE TRUTH.
As President of the Lauderdale County Association of Volunteer Fire Departments, please allow me to comment on this issue.
First, the fire chief and firefighters should be asked to immediately resign for not responding to a call for help........PERIOD! I don't care if the homeowner didn't pay the fee for the last 10 years. If this home was located in the fire departments service area, they should have responded. PERIOD! What if that same homeowner had called and said, "My wife and children are trapped in the burning house"? Would the South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department STILL not respond? How sad.
I sent an email to the South Fulton Fire Department thanking them for placing a "black eye" on the entire fire service for their actions. There is absolutely NO excuse for them not responding for this homeowners call for help. I can certainly understand that if I fire department is in need of funding, they request a $75 annual fee. However, the fire department should have responded.........no questions asked. Then after the fire was extinguished, then bill the homeowner $500 or $500 per hour for their services.
Here in Lauderdale County each homeowner and business is assessed a $50.00 fire protection fee. This fee is collected through the revenue commissioners office. If folks to not pay their property taxes.....then they don't pay the fire fee. However, this is where the Revenue Commissioners Office will take the necessary actions to collect this tax the fire fee. But you know what? When we as firefighters receive a call for help in our county, we have absolutely no idea if that property owner has paid his fire fee......and the funny thing is we could care less! Our 1st priority is the protection of life and property of our citizens we serve. I belong to the Rogersville Volunteer Fire Department. Their have been times we have been called to assist our neighbors in Limestone County (and vice-versa). Do we "REFUSE" to respond because the citizens of Limestone County do not fund our local fire department in Rogersville? NO! NO! NO! When someone calls for help......we go. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
One thing that confuses me is when this homeowner called 911 requesting the South Fulton VFD, does the dispatcher have a "PAID LISTING" of all the homeowners in that county to compare their list? Do you mean to tell me the dispatcher probably wasted valuable time in determining if the homeowner was due's paying member? I've read some of the arguments about comparing this "fire service" to garbage service. Give me a break. You can't compare the two. The fire department deals with life safety issues. No comparison. That argument will not hold water.
I'm proud to be a volunteer firefighter in Lauderdale County and I can assure the citizens that ALL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS in our area will respond regardless of the ability to pay, not pay, want to pay, can't pay, etc, etc..
Morris T. Lentz
President
Lauderdale County Association of Volunteer Fire Departments
First, the fire chief and firefighters should be asked to immediately resign for not responding to a call for help........PERIOD! I don't care if the homeowner didn't pay the fee for the last 10 years. If this home was located in the fire departments service area, they should have responded. PERIOD! What if that same homeowner had called and said, "My wife and children are trapped in the burning house"? Would the South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department STILL not respond? How sad.
I sent an email to the South Fulton Fire Department thanking them for placing a "black eye" on the entire fire service for their actions. There is absolutely NO excuse for them not responding for this homeowners call for help. I can certainly understand that if I fire department is in need of funding, they request a $75 annual fee. However, the fire department should have responded.........no questions asked. Then after the fire was extinguished, then bill the homeowner $500 or $500 per hour for their services.
Here in Lauderdale County each homeowner and business is assessed a $50.00 fire protection fee. This fee is collected through the revenue commissioners office. If folks to not pay their property taxes.....then they don't pay the fire fee. However, this is where the Revenue Commissioners Office will take the necessary actions to collect this tax the fire fee. But you know what? When we as firefighters receive a call for help in our county, we have absolutely no idea if that property owner has paid his fire fee......and the funny thing is we could care less! Our 1st priority is the protection of life and property of our citizens we serve. I belong to the Rogersville Volunteer Fire Department. Their have been times we have been called to assist our neighbors in Limestone County (and vice-versa). Do we "REFUSE" to respond because the citizens of Limestone County do not fund our local fire department in Rogersville? NO! NO! NO! When someone calls for help......we go. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
One thing that confuses me is when this homeowner called 911 requesting the South Fulton VFD, does the dispatcher have a "PAID LISTING" of all the homeowners in that county to compare their list? Do you mean to tell me the dispatcher probably wasted valuable time in determining if the homeowner was due's paying member? I've read some of the arguments about comparing this "fire service" to garbage service. Give me a break. You can't compare the two. The fire department deals with life safety issues. No comparison. That argument will not hold water.
I'm proud to be a volunteer firefighter in Lauderdale County and I can assure the citizens that ALL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS in our area will respond regardless of the ability to pay, not pay, want to pay, can't pay, etc, etc..
Morris T. Lentz
President
Lauderdale County Association of Volunteer Fire Departments
Mr Lentz,
Thank you for what you do. And I am not a cold hearted person.
Neither was the fire department. They said IF someone had been in the house they would have rescued them.
The whole point was that the county had no fire department, volunteer or otherwise, and agreed to PAY the city to come out into the county.
The whole fire department may be fired because of this, as well as the mayor and city council.
If no one paid the fees, sir, how would they maintain the department?
If you have no house insurance and your house is destroyed, do you complain to the city to rebuild your house?
As for the republicans don't care about people comment from dole, that was a very cheap shot. This has nothing to do with rep/dem. It's about personal responsibility. Something our society as a whole needs to do again.
Thank you for what you do. And I am not a cold hearted person.
Neither was the fire department. They said IF someone had been in the house they would have rescued them.
The whole point was that the county had no fire department, volunteer or otherwise, and agreed to PAY the city to come out into the county.
The whole fire department may be fired because of this, as well as the mayor and city council.
If no one paid the fees, sir, how would they maintain the department?
If you have no house insurance and your house is destroyed, do you complain to the city to rebuild your house?
As for the republicans don't care about people comment from dole, that was a very cheap shot. This has nothing to do with rep/dem. It's about personal responsibility. Something our society as a whole needs to do again.
Thanks for your response. However, the main point is the firefighters heard a call for help. I don't care if the county doesn't have a fire department. How could the fire chief and the firefighters in good concious just stand and do NOTHING. NOTHING. The sad fact is the South Fulton Fire Department DID respond to the neighboring house because of a measly $75.00?
Each volunteer fire department in Lauderdale County receives approximately $65,000 in yearly fire fee funding. This income DOES NOT even approach to adequately fund the expenses of our local fire departments. Allow me to use Underwood Petersville VFD as an example. This department is well known throughout the State of Alabama for being one of the only 24 hour staffed volunteer fire departments in the state. They have state of the art equipment. Why do you think they have their very successful Fish Fry's every month? That's correct.......to supplement the income they need to operate this very fine volunteer fire department.
Now I revert back to the South Fulton VFD. If the Fire Chief and firefighters are lacking funds? Don't wait on fire fee's to fund the department. It will never be enough. Do you know that is costs approximately $30,000 to outfit just ONE volunteer firefighter? What about fuel, insurance, fire trucks....the list goes on.
The issue here is not the $75 dollars that was paid of not paid. The cold hard fact is their were volunteer firefighters who absolutely heard the call for help and did not respond.
Each volunteer fire department in Lauderdale County receives approximately $65,000 in yearly fire fee funding. This income DOES NOT even approach to adequately fund the expenses of our local fire departments. Allow me to use Underwood Petersville VFD as an example. This department is well known throughout the State of Alabama for being one of the only 24 hour staffed volunteer fire departments in the state. They have state of the art equipment. Why do you think they have their very successful Fish Fry's every month? That's correct.......to supplement the income they need to operate this very fine volunteer fire department.
Now I revert back to the South Fulton VFD. If the Fire Chief and firefighters are lacking funds? Don't wait on fire fee's to fund the department. It will never be enough. Do you know that is costs approximately $30,000 to outfit just ONE volunteer firefighter? What about fuel, insurance, fire trucks....the list goes on.
The issue here is not the $75 dollars that was paid of not paid. The cold hard fact is their were volunteer firefighters who absolutely heard the call for help and did not respond.
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
Mr Lentz,
Thank you for what you do. And I am not a cold hearted person.
Neither was the fire department. They said IF someone had been in the house they would have rescued them.
The whole point was that the county had no fire department, volunteer or otherwise, and agreed to PAY the city to come out into the county.
The whole fire department may be fired because of this, as well as the mayor and city council.
If no one paid the fees, sir, how would they maintain the department?
If you have no house insurance and your house is destroyed, do you complain to the city to rebuild your house?
As for the republicans don't care about people comment from dole, that was a very cheap shot. This has nothing to do with rep/dem. It's about personal responsibility. Something our society as a whole needs to do again.
if you were in the mall eating and started choking on your food, or you were walking through walmart and fell over with a heart attack do you think medical personel shoud check to make sure you have insurance before saving your life? and if you have none should they let you die?
quote:Originally posted by MLentz:
As President of the Lauderdale County Association of Volunteer Fire Departments, please allow me to comment on this issue.
First, the fire chief and firefighters should be asked to immediately resign for not responding to a call for help........PERIOD! I don't care if the homeowner didn't pay the fee for the last 10 years. If this home was located in the fire departments service area, they should have responded. PERIOD! What if that same homeowner had called and said, "My wife and children are trapped in the burning house"? Would the South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department STILL not respond? How sad.
I sent an email to the South Fulton Fire Department thanking them for placing a "black eye" on the entire fire service for their actions. There is absolutely NO excuse for them not responding for this homeowners call for help. I can certainly understand that if I fire department is in need of funding, they request a $75 annual fee. However, the fire department should have responded.........no questions asked. Then after the fire was extinguished, then bill the homeowner $500 or $500 per hour for their services.
Here in Lauderdale County each homeowner and business is assessed a $50.00 fire protection fee. This fee is collected through the revenue commissioners office. If folks to not pay their property taxes.....then they don't pay the fire fee. However, this is where the Revenue Commissioners Office will take the necessary actions to collect this tax the fire fee. But you know what? When we as firefighters receive a call for help in our county, we have absolutely no idea if that property owner has paid his fire fee......and the funny thing is we could care less! Our 1st priority is the protection of life and property of our citizens we serve. I belong to the Rogersville Volunteer Fire Department. Their have been times we have been called to assist our neighbors in Limestone County (and vice-versa). Do we "REFUSE" to respond because the citizens of Limestone County do not fund our local fire department in Rogersville? NO! NO! NO! When someone calls for help......we go. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
One thing that confuses me is when this homeowner called 911 requesting the South Fulton VFD, does the dispatcher have a "PAID LISTING" of all the homeowners in that county to compare their list? Do you mean to tell me the dispatcher probably wasted valuable time in determining if the homeowner was due's paying member? I've read some of the arguments about comparing this "fire service" to garbage service. Give me a break. You can't compare the two. The fire department deals with life safety issues. No comparison. That argument will not hold water.
I'm proud to be a volunteer firefighter in Lauderdale County and I can assure the citizens that ALL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS in our area will respond regardless of the ability to pay, not pay, want to pay, can't pay, etc, etc..
Morris T. Lentz
President
Lauderdale County Association of Volunteer Fire Departments
It seems a few of you have gone out of your way to obscure the facts in this incident. First, this was NOT a Volunteer Fire Department. It was in fact a municipal Fire Department, operating within established protocol. The residential fire at the heart of this story was outside the CITY LIMITS. The home owner had a responsibility to secure fire protection each year and readily admitted this when he stated he had purchased it in past years. The city is NOT obligated to extend fire protection to residents outside the city and could decide in the future that the extended coverage is unsustainable, causing all county residents to lose their coverage. This home owner gambled with his home by failing to support the fire dept. and a $75 fee probably seems pretty petty now. He needs to bite the bullet, stop being embarassed for being stupid and get on with his life. I appreciate and admire volunteer FD and their members who serve. There is NO VFD involved in this story. Personally, I consider the fees that I pay annually a real bargain and I also support the other fund raisers they sponsor.
Mr. Lentz, it's people like you who give firefighters the image they deserve. You know the one that is willing to help no matter what. Your community is lucky indeed. Salute.
quote:MLentz
Posted 07 October 2010 12:14 AM
If this home was located in the fire departments service area,
But it wasn't. It's a municipal fire department, not responsible for coverage outside the corporate limits. Since there is no coverage outside the corporate limits, they've extended the service to non-residents, if the non-resident pre-purchases it.
The Fire Department should have put out the **** fire. This family pays taxes like everyone else and tax dollars are what fund the Police and Fire departments. I don't know what this $75 "fee" is for, but it sounds to me like some fee that the county government tacks on because they have horrible budgetary management.
Why can state and city governments not make funding Police and Fire departments the #1 goal? Why are some people forced to pay 40% of their income to state and federal taxes yet STILL have Police and Fire departments operating on shoestring budgets? Something is wrong somewhere.
Moreover, I read that the family (as well as neighbors) had cash in hand ready to pay the fee when the Fire Department mentioned it. But, nope, they refused to take the money and just stood as the house burned.
Imagine if this is what the Sheriff's department required (an extra fee). Further assume that a guy who did not pay his fee was a victim of a shooting and the Deputy just stood and watched as the perp got away. **** it, you don't pay your fee, we wont save your life.
It's incredible that some people here can defend this.
Why can state and city governments not make funding Police and Fire departments the #1 goal? Why are some people forced to pay 40% of their income to state and federal taxes yet STILL have Police and Fire departments operating on shoestring budgets? Something is wrong somewhere.
Moreover, I read that the family (as well as neighbors) had cash in hand ready to pay the fee when the Fire Department mentioned it. But, nope, they refused to take the money and just stood as the house burned.
Imagine if this is what the Sheriff's department required (an extra fee). Further assume that a guy who did not pay his fee was a victim of a shooting and the Deputy just stood and watched as the perp got away. **** it, you don't pay your fee, we wont save your life.
It's incredible that some people here can defend this.
If I were a trained firefighter there on the scene: whether I was getting paid or not, I would have done what I could to save the house.
Sorta reminds of the thread about the lady with broken dentures! She hadn't paid for her dentures so she couldn't get them repaired from the original maker.
Well heck! I am not trained as a firefighter, can't fix dentures or rebuild a house... But I do pay my bills!
Sorta reminds of the thread about the lady with broken dentures! She hadn't paid for her dentures so she couldn't get them repaired from the original maker.
Well heck! I am not trained as a firefighter, can't fix dentures or rebuild a house... But I do pay my bills!
If they didn't pay the 75$ what makes you think they would pay the emergency fee?
Fire departments need money to buy equipment, diesel, a place to store the equipment. Lets get real here. Through taxes I already have to pay for people's food stamps, government housing, free meals at school, grants for education. I have my own family to support without having to pay for those that refuse to support their own.I was just FORCED to put flood ins on my house. I'm tired of having my HARD EARNED MONEY taken from me by the government and given to freeloaders. You want the service, YOU PAY FOR IT. I'm tired of seeing people living in government housing, living off my dollar, driving newer and better cars than I can afford. Tired of them getting cheep rent because they cant physically do anything yet they hold a full time job under the table. Tired of seeing them claim no income yet bringing home new TVs and furniture and always wearing new clothes and buying[new bikes and toys for their kids. Help others ,yes, when they quit lyong and help themselves! About this fire, i say ,BRING THE MARSHMELLOWS!!!!!
QUOTE]Originally posted by Skiddles_98:
agreed dolemitejb.
if i came home and saw my neighbor's house burning, i would help any way that i could. i would not care if, perhaps, they had borrowed my weed whacker and not returned it or maybe their kids bounced a ball through my window (just guessing that's around $75). i would just want to help them and ensure everyone's safety. What if a child or elderly person had burned to death? this is not a "oh they didn't have the insurance, screw them" type of situation. the firefighters could have easily put out the fire and charged an "emergency" sum for responding since the people did not pay the fee. they could have publicized how wonderful the department was to respond to the needs of the community, and they could have used the situation to encourage others to pay the fee, increasing their profitability in the long run. driving the firetrucks out to witness it burning was the icing on the cake. i hope the backlash they are receiving was worth the $75.
Updated: http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...-fire-104113489.html[/QUOTE]
Fire departments need money to buy equipment, diesel, a place to store the equipment. Lets get real here. Through taxes I already have to pay for people's food stamps, government housing, free meals at school, grants for education. I have my own family to support without having to pay for those that refuse to support their own.I was just FORCED to put flood ins on my house. I'm tired of having my HARD EARNED MONEY taken from me by the government and given to freeloaders. You want the service, YOU PAY FOR IT. I'm tired of seeing people living in government housing, living off my dollar, driving newer and better cars than I can afford. Tired of them getting cheep rent because they cant physically do anything yet they hold a full time job under the table. Tired of seeing them claim no income yet bringing home new TVs and furniture and always wearing new clothes and buying[new bikes and toys for their kids. Help others ,yes, when they quit lyong and help themselves! About this fire, i say ,BRING THE MARSHMELLOWS!!!!!
QUOTE]Originally posted by Skiddles_98:
agreed dolemitejb.
if i came home and saw my neighbor's house burning, i would help any way that i could. i would not care if, perhaps, they had borrowed my weed whacker and not returned it or maybe their kids bounced a ball through my window (just guessing that's around $75). i would just want to help them and ensure everyone's safety. What if a child or elderly person had burned to death? this is not a "oh they didn't have the insurance, screw them" type of situation. the firefighters could have easily put out the fire and charged an "emergency" sum for responding since the people did not pay the fee. they could have publicized how wonderful the department was to respond to the needs of the community, and they could have used the situation to encourage others to pay the fee, increasing their profitability in the long run. driving the firetrucks out to witness it burning was the icing on the cake. i hope the backlash they are receiving was worth the $75.
Updated: http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...-fire-104113489.html[/QUOTE]
A few things-
1) The International firefighter's group (The IAFF is headquartered in Washington, D.C., representing nearly 300,000 full-time professional firefighters and paramedics.) condems South Fulton Fire Department for their actions last week.
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...tment-104392079.html
2. I agree that the Cranick family should have paid the fee. It seems, especially since he offered to pay it on site of the fire, that he could afford it. But surely there are elderly or some families in that county that cannot afford to pay. If they cannot afford to pay and haven't, would they be treated the same way in the event of a fire at their property?
3. Say there is some fire truck convention (I know, but just bear with me) in nearby Dyersburg or Union City and on their way back to their towns/stations they pass this fire in Obion County. If those firefighers from other cities stop to put out the fire, would the South Fulton Firefighters have orders to stand by and watch just because it's not in their municipal limits?
I think what the mayor and powers that be in South Fulton county wanted to make a point about not paying this fee and used this family and their home to do that. There are some things about the repeated 911 calls that seem questionable. When the grandson called did 911 tell him they have to check the list? Did they (911) know for sure that no one is in the building? Did they just take the word of someone without having/sending trained firemen on the scene that no one was in the building?
The way the fire chief acted was really terrible. He wouldn't respond to the home owner, he called the police to have the homeowner escorted off of his own property (police never came) and then the firefighters quickly left the scene? It even says the fire lasted several hours.
I get that it is a subscriptions only service, but its the humanity part that I'm having trouble separating. Sure you don't wait until after a car wreck to pay you insurance (says Kelly Edmison, fire chief), but you don't live in your car. You don't have medicines, food, clothing in your car. I think they should have fought the fire. A lot could have been saved since it burned for several hours. Then they should have fined the Cranick family. That would have made a better example. Instead, for me, it made the fire chief come across as heartless.
What's the protocol for ambulance service? Don't you get fined after service whether you have insurance or not?
1) The International firefighter's group (The IAFF is headquartered in Washington, D.C., representing nearly 300,000 full-time professional firefighters and paramedics.) condems South Fulton Fire Department for their actions last week.
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...tment-104392079.html
2. I agree that the Cranick family should have paid the fee. It seems, especially since he offered to pay it on site of the fire, that he could afford it. But surely there are elderly or some families in that county that cannot afford to pay. If they cannot afford to pay and haven't, would they be treated the same way in the event of a fire at their property?
3. Say there is some fire truck convention (I know, but just bear with me) in nearby Dyersburg or Union City and on their way back to their towns/stations they pass this fire in Obion County. If those firefighers from other cities stop to put out the fire, would the South Fulton Firefighters have orders to stand by and watch just because it's not in their municipal limits?
I think what the mayor and powers that be in South Fulton county wanted to make a point about not paying this fee and used this family and their home to do that. There are some things about the repeated 911 calls that seem questionable. When the grandson called did 911 tell him they have to check the list? Did they (911) know for sure that no one is in the building? Did they just take the word of someone without having/sending trained firemen on the scene that no one was in the building?
The way the fire chief acted was really terrible. He wouldn't respond to the home owner, he called the police to have the homeowner escorted off of his own property (police never came) and then the firefighters quickly left the scene? It even says the fire lasted several hours.
I get that it is a subscriptions only service, but its the humanity part that I'm having trouble separating. Sure you don't wait until after a car wreck to pay you insurance (says Kelly Edmison, fire chief), but you don't live in your car. You don't have medicines, food, clothing in your car. I think they should have fought the fire. A lot could have been saved since it burned for several hours. Then they should have fined the Cranick family. That would have made a better example. Instead, for me, it made the fire chief come across as heartless.
What's the protocol for ambulance service? Don't you get fined after service whether you have insurance or not?
Maybe everything in our country should be fee for service.
Police Protection
Fire Protection
Use of Roads/Highways/interstates
Public Education
Post office
State/local/federal government offices of any kind
Voting
and on and on
That way we would know for sure if anyone was using the system as a freeloader. We could hire guards to check to see if we had paid before using any of the above.
Anyone attempting to defraud by not paying would be executed.
Police Protection
Fire Protection
Use of Roads/Highways/interstates
Public Education
Post office
State/local/federal government offices of any kind
Voting
and on and on
That way we would know for sure if anyone was using the system as a freeloader. We could hire guards to check to see if we had paid before using any of the above.
Anyone attempting to defraud by not paying would be executed.
we can break this down further than quibbling about jurisdiction.. how does a man live with himself, firefighter or not who just stands there and does nothing as somebodies life burns down?
This is some sad, pathetic crap right here.. in the old days when a fire went off every able bodied man in the community dropped whatever they were doing and pitched in to deal with it..
In this case we have men, well equipped and trained to deal with this situation stand there and scratch their little baby nutz while this families life turned to ashes.. these guys should all be on the unemployment line, if not held criminally liable for this in some way
This is some sad, pathetic crap right here.. in the old days when a fire went off every able bodied man in the community dropped whatever they were doing and pitched in to deal with it..
In this case we have men, well equipped and trained to deal with this situation stand there and scratch their little baby nutz while this families life turned to ashes.. these guys should all be on the unemployment line, if not held criminally liable for this in some way
Forget the fee for service aspect of this situation. Forget the Mayor and Town Council ordered the firefighters not to respond, forget all of that. Firefighters taken an oath to protect lives and property.........no matter what. Let's say someone calls the Rogersville Fire Station from just across the county line (Limestone) and says my house is on fire and they need help. Do we in Rogersville say....."no we are no obligated to respond outside our coverage area because you live in Limestone County". NO! We immediately respond while at the same time notifying our good neighbors in Limestone County that we are coming into their district and they need to send the appropriate apparatus from their area.
Someone said earlier South Fulton was a "MUNICIPAL" Fire Department and they were not volunteer. Guess what, ROGERSVILLE, ANDERSON, KILLEN, ST. FLORIAN (MID-LAUDERDALE), are all MUNICIPAL "VOLUNTEER" FIRE DEPARTMENTS. I've been a firefighter in Rogersville for over 27 years now and have never been paid. However, our fire chief does receive a very small check from the Town to offset expenses he incurs for travel and meetings he must attend in the county and throughout our state.
It does not make a hill of beans that this homeowner didn't pay his fee. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department is an embarrassment to the fire service.
If I'm ever up in that area, I need to make sure I have $75 in cash on me at all times in case I drive through their town and have wreck in which my car catches fire. Wouldn't it be sad if they didn't respond?
If the Mayor and Town Council instructed our fire department NOT to respond to a certain area in the event of an emergency (and they certainly would never do this), I would...#1, Respond anyway....#2 - Work to get them voted out of office or #3 - Immediately resign my membership.
It real simple here folks. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department SHOULD have responded. We are talking about a man home! His pet's died in the fire! Think about this for a minute. What is a murder had occurred and this homeowner were trying to "cover the crime" by setting his house on fire? What then?
Someone said earlier South Fulton was a "MUNICIPAL" Fire Department and they were not volunteer. Guess what, ROGERSVILLE, ANDERSON, KILLEN, ST. FLORIAN (MID-LAUDERDALE), are all MUNICIPAL "VOLUNTEER" FIRE DEPARTMENTS. I've been a firefighter in Rogersville for over 27 years now and have never been paid. However, our fire chief does receive a very small check from the Town to offset expenses he incurs for travel and meetings he must attend in the county and throughout our state.
It does not make a hill of beans that this homeowner didn't pay his fee. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department is an embarrassment to the fire service.
If I'm ever up in that area, I need to make sure I have $75 in cash on me at all times in case I drive through their town and have wreck in which my car catches fire. Wouldn't it be sad if they didn't respond?
If the Mayor and Town Council instructed our fire department NOT to respond to a certain area in the event of an emergency (and they certainly would never do this), I would...#1, Respond anyway....#2 - Work to get them voted out of office or #3 - Immediately resign my membership.
It real simple here folks. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department SHOULD have responded. We are talking about a man home! His pet's died in the fire! Think about this for a minute. What is a murder had occurred and this homeowner were trying to "cover the crime" by setting his house on fire? What then?
If one firefighter had the guts to stand up and say this aint right the others would have followed and the fire would have been put out -- they would have been written up for insubordination which any good attorney would have defended them in a wrongful termination hearing, but unfortunately none of those men had any compassion or backbone to do so. It is wrong to sit by and watch destruction. Would these men have run in a fire fight with an armed person? Would they have left a bleeding man on the side of the street? If their supervisor told them too I guess they would have because in essence that is what they did here.
Thank you Morris for clarifying that firemen take an oath to protect and serve just like police officers, doctors and any other "professional". Definitely gives me more respect for volunteer firefighters who fight the fire regardless of what their "bosses" tell them to do.
Yes, I see the points of the guy didn't pay he doesn't get to play, but what if the county clerk that informed the firefighters he didn't pay was wrong? What if he had paid his fee and because the clerk couldn't find the receipt they let the house burn? What then? There are many what ifs that this situation brings up...it won't bring this guy's home back or make the situation any better but in the future I hope these people will get their minds out of their wallets and on the important things in life -- you know, life, shelter, clothing -- being able to live without having to have assistance....you know that thing this man had before the fire but now he has to have charity and will probably get government assistance somehow and will still get a handout.
Two wrongs don't make a right....ever....
Thank you Morris for clarifying that firemen take an oath to protect and serve just like police officers, doctors and any other "professional". Definitely gives me more respect for volunteer firefighters who fight the fire regardless of what their "bosses" tell them to do.
Yes, I see the points of the guy didn't pay he doesn't get to play, but what if the county clerk that informed the firefighters he didn't pay was wrong? What if he had paid his fee and because the clerk couldn't find the receipt they let the house burn? What then? There are many what ifs that this situation brings up...it won't bring this guy's home back or make the situation any better but in the future I hope these people will get their minds out of their wallets and on the important things in life -- you know, life, shelter, clothing -- being able to live without having to have assistance....you know that thing this man had before the fire but now he has to have charity and will probably get government assistance somehow and will still get a handout.
Two wrongs don't make a right....ever....
quote:Originally posted by MLentz:
Forget the fee for service aspect of this situation. Forget the Mayor and Town Council ordered the firefighters not to respond, forget all of that. Firefighters taken an oath to protect lives and property.........no matter what. Let's say someone calls the Rogersville Fire Station from just across the county line (Limestone) and says my house is on fire and they need help. Do we in Rogersville say....."no we are no obligated to respond outside our coverage area because you live in Limestone County". NO! We immediately respond while at the same time notifying our good neighbors in Limestone County that we are coming into their district and they need to send the appropriate apparatus from their area.
Someone said earlier South Fulton was a "MUNICIPAL" Fire Department and they were not volunteer. Guess what, ROGERSVILLE, ANDERSON, KILLEN, ST. FLORIAN (MID-LAUDERDALE), are all MUNICIPAL "VOLUNTEER" FIRE DEPARTMENTS. I've been a firefighter in Rogersville for over 27 years now and have never been paid. However, our fire chief does receive a very small check from the Town to offset expenses he incurs for travel and meetings he must attend in the county and throughout our state.
It does not make a hill of beans that this homeowner didn't pay his fee. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department is an embarrassment to the fire service.
If I'm ever up in that area, I need to make sure I have $75 in cash on me at all times in case I drive through their town and have wreck in which my car catches fire. Wouldn't it be sad if they didn't respond?
If the Mayor and Town Council instructed our fire department NOT to respond to a certain area in the event of an emergency (and they certainly would never do this), I would...#1, Respond anyway....#2 - Work to get them voted out of office or #3 - Immediately resign my membership.
It real simple here folks. The South Fulton Volunteer Fire Department SHOULD have responded. We are talking about a man home! His pet's died in the fire! Think about this for a minute. What is a murder had occurred and this homeowner were trying to "cover the crime" by setting his house on fire? What then?
The volunteer fire departments in Lauderdale County receive funds from the county to cover unincorporated areas. They also have coverage areas defined on a map. Mutual aid agreements allow them to assist each other. If those agreements were not in place, the assistance would be much less likely to occur. Are you saying this isn't so?
It's not so with the Tennessee fire department in question. That one is solely a municipal fire department.
Morris, you know that it can be "what if"ed to death. What if the president had been in the house? What if a nuclear bomb was in the house? What if the pope was there?
Don't use the what if argument...it's raw sensationalism at it's worst.
Bleeding heart liberals, you were the hippies of the 60+70s . Real world here! I pay my fire ins,car ins,flood ins,motorcycle ins,medical ins,life ins, and you wanna sit back and whine because someone looses out because they willfUlly did not pay. Do they have car ins.or am I going to have to use my uninsured driver coverage when they hit me. People CHOOSE not to follow the law or common sense then when something happens they blame others. People think its ok to ignore rules and your not wrong unless you get caught. The homeowner IS AT FAULT he refused to protect his family and investments. He paid the consciquences and now his family suffers because of his stupidity. Because I own a car does that make it my responsibility to take someone to the doctor that doesn't own one because they CHOSE to spend their money some other way? NOPE! Should I be held responsible to pay someone's rent because they spend their money on drugs or booze or cigarettes? Nope! But im forced to by the government with their housing projects. Grant, there are some truly needy out there and I dont mind helping them, but this guy had the money and could have paid for the protection, BUT CHOSE NOT TO! Willful stupidity should not be rewarded.
From what I know of the local fire departments, they would not let a house burn down if the owner told them too!
Todd Cranick, son of Gene Cranick, tells Local 6 that his parents have received several thousand dollars from the insurance company to cover immediate costs. Cranick went on to say that the insurance plans on covering all damage and property losses. Right now, there is no fund set up to help the Cranick family.
.................................................
They paid the house insurance, so they could have paid. They chose not to. I see no reason to set up a fund for these people. They knew what the rules were.
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They paid the house insurance, so they could have paid. They chose not to. I see no reason to set up a fund for these people. They knew what the rules were.
So if this person did not pay his home owners insurance should they have to pay too? I feel for the guy buy as some have said he chose not to pay and counted on them coming anyway. To carry this to the extreme no one pays but everyone gets anything they want.
A little more background:
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...-fire-104113489.html
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news...-fire-104113489.html
quote:South Fulton police arrested one of Gene Cranick's sons, Timothy Allen Cranick, on an aggravated assault charge. When officers arrived at the firehouse Wednesday, South Fulton Fire Chief David Wilds was in an ambulance receiving medical treatment.
Police said Cranick was upset firefighters weren't putting out the fire and attacked the chief. The South Fulton city manager said Wilds was treated and released and will recover just fine.
The incident is shining new light on a policy that's got a lot of people upset. But Union City Fire Chief Kelly Edmison is defending the firefighters in South Fulton.
"If somebody is trapped in the house we're going to go because life safety is number one but we can't give the service away," Edmison said. "It's not South Fulton's problem. It's not Union City's problem. It's the county's problem. There is no county fire department."
And with no fire department, people living in the county rely on nearby city or volunteer fire departments in an emergency.
In Obion County there are eight municipalities. South Fulton, Union City and Kenton are the only ones on subscription service, meaning if you don't pay, you don't get help.
That's exactly what happened to the Cranicks Wednesday. It's a situation Edmison said isn't ideal but a necessity to keep fire departments operating.
"If we just waited to charge when we went out there, you'd be working on a per-call basis," he said. "With no more calls than there are, the money wouldn't be there in a sufficient source to buy the equipment you need."
He and other fire chiefs in Obion County who charge subscription fees for county residents know they're in a tough spot.
"It's like car insurance," Edmison said. "I wish I could wait until I have an accident until I pay my premium on my car insurance, but it doesn't work that way. So why should the fire service be looked at anything different?"
Again, if the fire situation is life threatening, fire departments will respond. However, that was not the case with the fire in South Fulton Wednesday.
Edmison said Obion County has entered into a letter of intent with all eight fire district municipalities, so all eight departments will soon respond to county residents through subscription service only.
I'm glad the guy had insurance. Now, if the FD had attempted to save his house they most likely could have filed a "fee claim" for their "emergency services rendered" and would have gotten well more than they spent putting out the fire -- well more than the $75 fee. Great minds I tell ya.....
And before someone says the insurance wouldn't pay -- I worked for a company that helped in these type situations and we always got paid for our emergency services -- rebuilding the house like a mansion when it was a trailer, No, but they always paid for keeping damages to a minimum.
And before someone says the insurance wouldn't pay -- I worked for a company that helped in these type situations and we always got paid for our emergency services -- rebuilding the house like a mansion when it was a trailer, No, but they always paid for keeping damages to a minimum.
and you in your typical all pro and supportive of all things government gibberish have come out on the wrong side again.. these people didn't ask for sympathy.. they only wanted somebody to do their little government job
quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
The $75.00 fee is just a token amount...something to show the City is not providing free service to those who don't live within the incorporated area covered by the City. I doubt it pays the fuel for the number of trucks that respond to a structure fire, let alone the salary of the fire fighters, or the wear and tear on equipment.
Sorry...I can't generate any sympathy for the home owner; not when he's eat up with apathy towards the city, until a fire he set gets out of control and burns his house down.
quote:Originally posted by martyr:
and you in your typical all pro and supportive of all things government gibberish have come out on the wrong side again.. these people didn't ask for sympathy.. they only wanted somebody to do their little government jobquote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
The $75.00 fee is just a token amount...something to show the City is not providing free service to those who don't live within the incorporated area covered by the City. I doubt it pays the fuel for the number of trucks that respond to a structure fire, let alone the salary of the fire fighters, or the wear and tear on equipment.
Sorry...I can't generate any sympathy for the home owner; not when he's eat up with apathy towards the city, until a fire he set gets out of control and burns his house down.
Wasn't the job of the government in question. It was a city fire department, and the homeowner does NOT live in the city. The City offered to extend services beyond where they were required to do so, for a pre-paid fee. The homeowner chose to not accept the terms and decided to not pay the fee.
Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.
OK, so I heard that the lady said they'd paid it in the past but it slipped their mind. So when did the attitude of he didn't want to pay for it -- come into play? If it had slipped their mind -- did anyone give them the option to pay it that day?
quote:Originally posted by Eastside:
OK, so I heard that the lady said they'd paid it in the past but it slipped their mind. So when did the attitude of he didn't want to pay for it -- come into play? If it had slipped their mind -- did anyone give them the option to pay it that day?
Every report I've read on says Cranick (their quotation marks) "forgot" to pay his fee.
quote:"I hadn't paid my $75 and that's what they want, $75, and they don't care how much it burned down," Cranick told WPSD-TV. "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."
quote:Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Bleeding heart liberals, you were the hippies of the 60+70s . Real world here! I pay my fire ins,car ins,flood ins,motorcycle ins,medical ins,life ins, and you wanna sit back and whine because someone looses out because they willfUlly did not pay. Do they have car ins.or am I going to have to use my uninsured driver coverage when they hit me. People CHOOSE not to follow the law or common sense then when something happens they blame others. People think its ok to ignore rules and your not wrong unless you get caught. The homeowner IS AT FAULT he refused to protect his family and investments. He paid the consciquences and now his family suffers because of his stupidity. Because I own a car does that make it my responsibility to take someone to the doctor that doesn't own one because they CHOSE to spend their money some other way? NOPE! Should I be held responsible to pay someone's rent because they spend their money on drugs or booze or cigarettes? Nope! But im forced to by the government with their housing projects. Grant, there are some truly needy out there and I dont mind helping them, but this guy had the money and could have paid for the protection, BUT CHOSE NOT TO! Willful stupidity should not be rewarded.
Don't hold nothin' back, yo.
But that's my point Sassy, if he legitimately forgot to pay his fee and they refused to give him the benefit of the doubt or an alternative -- couldn't their be a lawsuit issue here? I get that he didn't pay his fee and no one should expect anything for free, but if they didn't heed the call when he would have paid it had he been given the chance -- heads should definitely roll for that gross negligence to the community.
quote:Originally posted by Eastside:
But that's my point Sassy, if he legitimately forgot to pay his fee and they refused to give him the benefit of the doubt or an alternative -- couldn't their be a lawsuit issue here? I get that he didn't pay his fee and no one should expect anything for free, but if they didn't heed the call when he would have paid it had he been given the chance -- heads should definitely roll for that gross negligence to the community.
Nope. Since he's not a citizen of the municipality, and he failed to pay the required fee, they have no responsibility or liability. If he had paid the fee, and they let it burn, then yes...they would be liable.
The city owes him nothing...he's not a citizen and doesn't live in the city limits, and the fire department is not paid for by any tax that Cranick (the homeowner) pays to the county. They extended the opportunity to have protection if he pre-paid the fee, and he failed to do so.
The innuendo I read into the reports was that Cranick decided to just not pay the fee; assuming they would come out and put any fire out if he had one, and that he would have to settle with them then. If this was true, he was wrong.
Since it was required I would think they had a set time, like first of the year, when paying for car tags, etc.
I'm sure more details will come out.
I'm sure more details will come out.
I can't believe somebody let's you roam around armed
quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by martyr:
and you in your typical all pro and supportive of all things government gibberish have come out on the wrong side again.. these people didn't ask for sympathy.. they only wanted somebody to do their little government jobquote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
The $75.00 fee is just a token amount...something to show the City is not providing free service to those who don't live within the incorporated area covered by the City. I doubt it pays the fuel for the number of trucks that respond to a structure fire, let alone the salary of the fire fighters, or the wear and tear on equipment.
Sorry...I can't generate any sympathy for the home owner; not when he's eat up with apathy towards the city, until a fire he set gets out of control and burns his house down.
Wasn't the job of the government in question. It was a city fire department, and the homeowner does NOT live in the city. The City offered to extend services beyond where they were required to do so, for a pre-paid fee. The homeowner chose to not accept the terms and decided to not pay the fee.
Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.
quote:Story Updated: Oct 7, 2010 at 12:34 AM CDT
UNION CITY, Tenn. - A local county's lack of a fire protection policy is drawing national attention but county leaders aren't backing down. This after hundreds of threatening phone calls and e-mails.
The Obion County, Tennessee, mayor said he and members of his staff are receiving threats every day.
This is because county residents either have to pay a fire protection fee to a nearby city for fire coverage or go without.
Below are just a few of the messages callers are leaving for the mayor:
"You people should be ashamed of yourself."
"You stinking bum, letting this poor man's house burn to the ground. I bet you call yourselves Christian. You're disgusting."
"I'm going to ask the Lord to put a curse on every person that was involved in that."
All of this is in reaction to the Cranick home burning down one week ago. They live in the county and did not pay the $75 fee to South Fulton's Fire Department.
So, when they're home caught fire, the Cranick's were out of luck.
"The same thing has happened in the county before," said Obion County Mayor Benny McGuire. "It never got this much attention."
He doesn't understand why his county's policy is under fire.
Good point. If it happened before, why all the media coverage now?
Found this from another article.
quote:South Fulton City manager Jeff Vowell confirmed the Cranicks had not paid the fee, which has been the department's policy since 1990. Cranick said her failure to pay was an oversight.
"I've paid it many, many times," Paulette Cranick said, "I just haven't gotten around to it (this year)."
Cranick pointed out that the fire station is on the edge of town and "we don't go out that way every often."
She could not mail it to them?
I allowed my driver's license to expire, just did not notice it was time to renew.
Have none of the rest of you not ever forgotten anything?
Have none of the rest of you not ever forgotten anything?