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While much of Mexico's population census would obviously have to be guesswork, current population figures are usually given as:

100% Indian -- 25%

Any mixture of Indian/European -- 60%

Mixed European ancestry -- 6%

100% Spanish (Hidalgos) -- 9%

Obviously, it isn't the last 15% that are crossing our borders daily. Does our government fear being racist if it passes/enforces laws to restrict immigration from the south? I must say I like the post about Oklahoma's new policy.
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Hi FirenzeVeritas,

You ask, "While much of Mexico's population census would obviously have to be guesswork, current population figures are usually given as: 100% Indian -- 25%; Any mixture of Indian/European -- 60%; Mixed European ancestry -- 6%; 100% Spanish (Hidalgos) -- 9%"

I would have to respond that a Mexican is another human being; a mixture of Indian, Spanish, European, etc. blood. That makes them very much like most Americans -- a Heinz 57 breed. I know that I fit that description. I have English, Irish, maybe some Scandinavian, possibly some other European, most likely some Indian since I was born in Northwest Alabama -- Creek and Cherokee territory -- and, only God knows what other blood I carry. But, you ask me and I will say I am an American; a Christian American.

Am I against the Hispanic people? No. Am I against our government giving amnesty to twelve million illegal immigrants who broke our laws to get into America? You bet I am! I do not believe we should reward anyone for breaking our laws.

However, if the illegal immigrants want to return to their native country -- regardless of where it is -- and return with a legal visa and passport; then, I say to them, "Welcome to America! May God prosper and bless you!"

Just a thought.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net

Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!

To be added to my Friends Ministry mail list please e-mail me at billdory@pacbell.net

To read my recent articles published in The Conservative Voice, click on this URL: http://www.theconservativevoice.com/profile/2674/Bill-Gray.html
quote:
Posted 24 October 2007 02:45 AM Hide Post
Hi FirenzeVeritas,

You ask, "While much of Mexico's population census would obviously have to be guesswork, current population figures are usually given as: 100% Indian -- 25%; Any mixture of Indian/European -- 60%; Mixed European ancestry -- 6%; 100% Spanish (Hidalgos) -- 9%"

I would have to respond that a Mexican is another human being; a mixture of Indian, Spanish, European, etc. blood. That makes them very much like most Americans -- a Heinz 57 breed. I know that I fit that description. I have English, Irish, maybe some Scandinavian, possibly some other European, most likely some Indian since I was born in Northwest Alabama -- Creek and Cherokee territory -- and, only God knows what other blood I carry. But, you ask me and I will say I am an American; a Christian American.



How astute. Mexican's are other human beings! Thanks for clearing that up.
PHONE SENATE SWITCHBOARD AT:
202-224-3121

THIS IS A SHOW-DOWN MORNING, FRIENDS.

The vote on amnesty may be before noon.

I have a simple paragraph you can use on the phone if you have never called a Senate office. It is so easy.

"Hi, my name is xmxmxm xmxmxmx. I am calling about S. 2205, the DREAM Act amnesty. I urge the Senator to vote NO on cloture today and kill this amnesty. Thank you."

It is going to take a lot of first-timers to pull out a victory when the Senate is expected to vote by mid-day. How about calling and saying something like:

"I would like for you to tell Senator xmxmxmxm that giving the DREAM Act amnesty to 2.1 million illegal aliens will send the wrong message to the rest of the world. Ask him to please vote NO on cloture on S. 2205. We don't need to entice a larger wave of illegal immigration."

Or this:

"There should be no amnesty of any kind until Congress passes laws to stop the hiring of illegal foreign workers. S. 2205 would just invite a lot more illegal aliens to come. Please ask Sen. xmxmxm to vote NO on the DREAM Act amnesty."

CAN YOU MOVE A VOTE AND STOP THE AMNESTY THIS MORNING?

Assistant Senate Majority Leader Durbin (D-Ill.) said he would be working tonight to find the final YES votes to have the 60 needed to pass his DREAM Act amnesty later this morning.

I don't know what he found.

But even if he did go to bed with 60 votes, you can knock him back to 59 (or lower) and stop this amnesty if collectively you swamp the Senate offices with phone calls between 7 a.m. EDT and the vote which could come as early as 11 a.m.

PHONE SENATE SWITCHBOARD AT:
202-224-3121

THE MOST IMPORTANT SENATORS TO CALL

Your influence is always strongest with your own two Senators.

You can see which way your Senators are leaning by checking our list on the www.NumbersUSA.com Home page. Your phone calls are most important for the Senators printed in black because they have not indicated which way they are likely to vote.

But if you want to lend more help this morning, please call from one of the lists below.

TARGET THESE DEMOCRATIC SENATORS UP FOR RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR

Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)
Durbin (D-IL)

Harkin (D-IA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)

Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)

Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)

Names in bold especially need to hear from you because we don't have a lot of members in those states.

You may want to calmly note to staffers in these offices that a story in yesterday's Washington Post by reporter Jonathan Weisman pointed out that failure by Democrats to respond to voters' anger about illegal immigration could cause them serious problems at the ballot box next year.

You can read from some of these quotes in a story that began with the example of a really solid Democratic seat being seriously challenged recently by a Republican who stressed toughness on illegal immigration.

"This issue has real implications for the country. It captures all the American people's anger and frustration not only with immigration, but with the economy," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus and an architect of the Democratic congressional victories of 2006.

"It's self-evident. This is a big problem. ... For the American people, and therefore all of us, it's emerged as the third rail of American politics," Emanuel said. "And anyone who doesn't realize that isn't with the American people."

Republicans, sensing a major vulnerability, have been hammering Democrats, forcing Congress to face the question of illegal immigration on every bill they can find ...

"I think the Democrats are on the wrong side of this issue, and if they continue down this path, they are going to lose a lot of seats," said Matt Wylie, a strategist for the Ogonowski campaign.

The issue has shifted since concerns about illegal immigrants triggered angry calls for border fences and deportation two years ago. Now, voter anger appears to revolve around the belief that illegal immigrants are unfairly consuming government benefits, a fear that stems more from economic uncertainty than culture clashes, Democratic and Republican pollsters say.

Those concerns are not everywhere. But they are glaring in some of the white, working-class districts in Kansas, Indiana, North Carolina and New Hampshire that gave the Democrats control of the House last year. And they were on clear display in Lowell, Mass.

PHONE SENATE SWITCHBOARD AT:
202-224-3121

You will also want to consider talking about those points with the offices of the Democratic Senators who voted against the Comprehensive amnesty last June.

Most of those Democrats are either freshmen or in competitive states where Republicans have a chance of winning.

Saddling themselves with an amnesty today will not help them entrench themselves.

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bingaman (D-NM)

Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Dorgan (D-ND)

Harkin (D-IA)
Landrieu (D-LA)
McCaskill (D-MO)

Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)

Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)

Names in bold especially need to hear from you because we don't have a lot of members in those states.

PHONE SENATE SWITCHBOARD AT:
202-224-3121

TARGET REPUBLICANS UP FOR RE-ELECTION WHO HAVE NOT COMMITTED TO A 'NO' VOTE ON AMNESTY

Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins(R-ME)

Cornyn (R-TX)
Graham (R-SC)
Smith (R-OR)

Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)

IF YOU ARE AN EXPERIENCED CALLER, TALK TO THE STAFFERS ABOUT THE GIANT NUMBERS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO WOULD GET THE DREAM AMNESTY

Our Capitol Hill Team is hearing from fence-sitting Senators that the argument that is moving them most toward voting YES on the DREAM Act amnesty is that it would give an amnesty to "only 60,000 kids a year."

Dr. Steve Camarota at the Center for Immigration Studies this afternoon issued estimates on how many illegal aliens potentially could be involved if the DREAM Act amnesty becomes law. His research was based on the latest government surveys.

DREAM Act Offers Amnesty to 2.1 Million
New Estimate Shows Another 1.4 Million Family Members Could Also Stay

WASHINGTON (October 23, 2007) — The Senate is currently considering the DREAM Act (S.2205). Some have argued that only 60,000 illegal immigrants would be granted amnesty annually under the Act, but a new analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies of 2007 Census Bureau data shows millions of potential beneficiaries.

# An estimated 800,000 illegal immigrants under age 17 have been here long enough to qualify for legalization under the DREAM Act. There are a total of 1.7 million illegal aliens estimated to be under age 18.

# There are an estimated 900,000 parents of illegal aliens under age 18 who qualify. It is unclear whether the government would deport these parents.

# The DREAM Act is also unclear as to what will happen to the siblings of legalized illegals who are themselves illegal, but do not meet the Act’s requirements. There are an estimated 500,000 such children.

# The DREAM Act also allows illegal aliens ages 18 to 29 to legalize if they claim to have arrived prior to age 16. We estimate 1.3 million meet this requirement. There are a total of 4.4 million illegal aliens in this age group.

# Thus the total number of potential amnesty beneficiaries is 2.1 million (assuming no fraud). This does not include 1.4 million siblings and parents of qualifying illegals who may end up receiving a de facto amnesty.

# Prior legalization programs have been plagued by fraud. One-fourth (700,000) of those legalized in the 1986 amnesty are estimated to have done so fraudulently.

# Given the difficulty in determining whether an applicant meets the DREAM Act’s amnesty requirements, coupled with the overworked nature of the immigration bureaucracy, fraud could be a significant problem.

This study is very helpful in knowing how many illegal aliens likely truly qualify for the amnesty under the bill. But it also notes all kinds of other illegal aliens who probably will never have to go home if the bill passes because they are in the close family of the amnestied illegals or because they will be able to cheat the system.

Think of it this way: Congress passes DREAM and in essence gives a CAN'T DEPORT ME card to the 2.1 million illegals.

Do you think the feds will then deport their illegal parents and leave the amnestied teenagers without adult supervision?

And if the feds decide to keep their hands off the parents and give a full amnesty to the 2.1 million, do you believe the feds will then deport the other nearly 1 million siblings who didn't qualify for the amnesty?

You know how this would play out.

DREAM would give an amnesty to a bunch of illegal kids and a de facto amnesty to their whole nuclear families.

Did somebody say "backdoor blanket amnesty?"

When you are talking to fence-straddling offices, you have to make sure the staffers are understanding that DREAM means a whole lot of amnesty goin' on.

One point that many of the fence-straddling Senators seem to care about is how this DREAM amnesty would affect future illegal immigration.

We already established above that it would reward huge numbers of illegal aliens with citizenship or de facto amnesty.

That would be a tremendous incentive for future illegal immigration if foreign nationals don't believe we have our enforcement house in order.

Instead of passing legislation to improve the lack of enforcement in this country that allowed at least 12 million illegal aliens to settle here, Senators are trying to just continue the 21-year pattern of giving rewards to illegal aliens.

When we defeated the enforcement/amnesty bill last spring, the majority voice around the country was that we wanted ENFORCEMENT ONLY. Instead, Senators Reid, Durbin, Hagel and Lugar are trying to force us to swallow AMNESTY ONLY.

Your phone calls have to break through with Senate staffs that no amnesty of any kind is acceptable while the country is in a state of lawlessness.

PHONE SENATE SWITCHBOARD AT:
202-224-3121
A Mexican is a person from a country that has no respect for American laws or sovereignty. A Mexican is encouraged by his government to cross into America by whatever means and work here illegally.

A Mexican has a one-in-ten chance of not being in Mexico any more, but in America. A Mexican of the Mexican work force has a one-in-seven chance of being in America.

A Mexican could be one of the 30% or so of prisoners in Southwest US prisons. A Mexican could be one of the 50% of uninisured drivers in Los Angeles.

A Mexican who is here without our permission is an invader, who has invaded with the tacit permission of our government.

A Mexican is a citizen of a country whose dealings with the USA are completely skewed to Mexico's favor.

A Mexican will get no grief from the Bush administration or any Democrat.

A Mexican will likely be your newest neighbor.

DF
A Mexican is a legal citizen of Mexico, having been born there or naturalized through a legal immigration process.

An American is a legal citizen of America, having been born there or naturalized through a legal immigration process.

Genealogical history or racial background really doesn't factor in. A Mexican is from Mexico and an American is from America, regardless of race. The issue is when the Mexican breaks American laws by sneaking in, falsifying documents, using stolen or forged identities, and draining our economy. That's called an illegal alien regardless of how light or dark his skin is.
Ummm, no. Racism is rampant in many other countries. I worked with residents (educated, should know better) from other countries. I was shocked to death at how openly racist they are. We'd be all over Oprah and Pauvich and whomped on by Sharpton if we dared breathe anything like the things they just casually drop into conversation.

Like, for instance, Chinese dislike Japanese. (Almost had a fight started when someone called a Chinese resident "Japanese"); Iranian resident only deigned to sit with people of "Persian" descent, meaning no Arabs, etc.; on and on.

And they just have no problem with it. They just casually despise each other.
Right, but the basis of racism is anthropology and xenophobia. I wrote twelve paragraphs but then saw BobbyMeade's posts. I figured that someone would (rightfully) shoot me, so I edited it way down.

What I really mean is that "racism" is the ugly face of xenophobia. The feeling is more-or-less natural; how you deal with it separates you from the barbarians.

And calling a Korean "Japanese" is a really good way to start a fight, but that is from thousands of years of antipathy.
Hmm, in my neck of the woods, a major metropolitan city very far from Alabama, the word is not " Mexican" because those people reside in the country of Mexico. The politically correct words are either " Latino/ Latina" or " Hispanic".

Let's see: Teams of non- English speaking Hispanics have, in the past 3 years, built the pool and spa in the backyard of our new home, laid travertine and hardwood flooring in a new addition to our home, done extensive landscaping to our property, and often are the non- English speaking repairmen who show up to troubleshoot our service calls related to expensive household appliances/ equipment or to upgrade our state of the art home security system.

All of the utility companies send out Hispanic employees who know only rudimentary English ( or profess to only know the basic words, I am still not sure which is true!!) Cable guy? Name is Jose or Juan on his uniform.
Phone repairman? Last name on uniform is Martinez or something similar.

Most of the contracted workers for the companies we have to utilize to perform 'skilled' work don't even have uniforms or give their names.. Our pool company had overruns of close to $10,000 because their non- English speaking subcontracted workers made glaring errors in the placement of junction boxes, spa controls, and so forth. Serves them right!

Did I mention that at NO time did our household request a person or group which only speaks Spanish?
The errors are multitude, and I know that these day laborers and sub-contractors are doing the backbreaking grunt work for the companies to which we pay extremely high fees for service.

Is there anything I can do about it? Not that I can find. If I ask for English- speaking workers or Caucasians, it is labeled as " racist". I've been told so by the reverse snobs who answer the phones at the landscaping firms, the pool company, the flooring company, etc. They look at the address on the bill of sale or the service request, ask if I live in a certain high- profile private, gated, guarded community, and when my answer is "Yes", all bets are off as to what kind of person shows up to try to do anything.

Discrimination is alive and well in the USA, but it isn't only against so-called minorities.
I'd like to point out 4 observations about the illegal invasion going on in America. Bear with me.

1. If George Bush is the conservative he claims to be, why the push for amnesty? It's time we all ask the question: Who in Mexico is blackmailing Bush, and what in the world could they have on him? It must be something BIG.

2. To all who think illegal Mexicans, excuse me Hispanics, should be here because they do jobs Americans won't do, here's something to think about. Did you have a job when you were a teenager. I did. I picked vegetables every summer for spending money, and I cleaned houses during the rest of the year. I learned the value of a dollar. Most American teenagers are so spoiled it is pathetic. Let them work the low-paying jobs. Spoiling them is not helping them. Think of the generation that survived the Great Depression. They were hard workers, they had to be. Do you think most American teenagers today, or twenty-somethings even, know anything about hard work? Boot the illegals, let the young people take up the slack.

3. Mexico does not tolerate illegal immigration. Period. The southern border of Mexico is patrolled like a military zone. If they catch you, you are jailed immediately or worse. If you run, they shoot. If they don't tolerate it, why should we?

4. I lived in Arizona about 15 miles north of the border. The countryside was littered with trash, costing the state and taxpayers millions a year to clean it up. But that wasn't what bothered me most. They were constantly finding evidence, like copies of the Koran, that showed it isn't just Hispanics sneaking across our border. If a member of the Taliban or Al-Quaida learned Spanish and changed his clothing, hairstly, etc. to blend in with Hispanic illegals trying to cross the border, I'd wager most Americans couldn't pick him out of the group. Here's my point. The people along the border who help these illegals by giving them water, food, shelter, they could be helping a terrorist enter our country. And that's treason, my friends.

Wake up, America. Secure the borders before it's too late. If anyone from anywhere wants to come here LEGALLY for a better life, I applaud them. If you are here illegally, you have broken the law and we don't need you here.
I was in Wal-Mart in Muscle Shoals last night.
3 Mexican (opps! Hispanics) women and (several little ones) were chatting & no one could get thru.
A couple of us said excuse me twice. They just kept chatting & didn't move. They either didn't understand English or didn't give a rip. We had to turn & go around to get to the other end.
Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
I was in Wal-Mart in Muscle Shoals last night.
3 Mexican (opps! Hispanics) women and (several little ones) were chatting & no one could get thru.
A couple of us said excuse me twice. They just kept chatting & didn't move. They either didn't understand English or didn't give a rip. We had to turn & go around to get to the other end.
Roll Eyes


You should have just pulled out you cell phone and said operator please connect me to the local INS/ICE department. Eeker Bet they would have moved then. Big Grin
Hi,
How do you know, unless you do DNA testing, whether a person of Latin American extraction has the blood of the Incas, Aztecs, or Mayans in their blood, or if they are of Guatemalean, Costa Rican, etc. descent?
I am truly curious as to how you arrived at your arbitrary statement, and also what possible difference it makes.

All that matters to me is that I am receiving sub-standard service from national companies because they are subcontracting out cheap labor to non- English speaking workers and pocketing more profits.

The bottom line is this:
I really don't care how high their cheekbones are or if their eyes are tilted like the " Indian" South Americans.
I want the Hispanic community to care enough about HOW they make their money in this country to learn to speak English, to understand the directions needed to perform their jobs without flaws in English from their English- only speaking managers who send them to MY house!!

I learned fluent Spanish easily at the age of 14, and continued to pursue it as an elective course throughout my advanced studies later.
I know these people who are enjoying a lifestyle they could only dream of in their native countries can take a small block of time and learn English. They probably know a lot more English than they admit to, just as I understand most of what they say in Spanish, but do not respond to them in any way.
If they are going to live in MY country, they are going to speak MY language if they want my attention.

Caveat- I have, however, conversed with my Spanish- only speaking patients in Spanish as part of my career as an RN. To do less would be deceitful and extremely uncaring on my part.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
I was in Wal-Mart in Muscle Shoals last night.
3 Mexican (opps! Hispanics) women and (several little ones) were chatting & no one could get thru.
A couple of us said excuse me twice. They just kept chatting & didn't move. They either didn't understand English or didn't give a rip. We had to turn & go around to get to the other end.
Roll Eyes


Y'all are more patient that me. I would have tapped one of them on the shoulder and used sign language if they still didn't understand English.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
I was in Wal-Mart in Muscle Shoals last night.
3 Mexican (opps! Hispanics) women and (several little ones) were chatting & no one could get thru.
A couple of us said excuse me twice. They just kept chatting & didn't move. They either didn't understand English or didn't give a rip. We had to turn & go around to get to the other end.
Roll Eyes


Some weeks ago I was leaving Wal-Mart in Russellville, approaching my car, when I saw that I was blocked by three Hispanics (Indians). I said "excuse me" three times, each time slightly louder thant the last.

When they didn't move, being used to handling patients, cats, and ex-boyfriends, I then shouted "MOVE!" Ya know what, they did, and one even said "sorry."
Why is everyone considered a mexican in this area? From what I have seen there are far more Guatemalans than Mexicans,but everyone here uses the term "mexican" as a broad and derogatory label. It is best to use the broader term "hispanic" for those of you that want to be "politically correct." I have also seen Puerto Ricans and Cubans here, but yet all are called mexican.....puzzling. I also have to laugh when I hear someone ask "Is there anyone who speaks Mexican here?" It is not mexican, it is spanish, and most of what you hear here is actually not spanish. It is another language that Guatemalan's use, some kind of indigenous language. And before everyone jumps, I am in full agreement that people who come here should learn our language but I can definitely see the value in us learning theirs too. It is interesting what is happening here, I call them growing pains.
I have been in Walmart and have people of various backgrounds stop in the aisle and chat and not care who was needing to get by. I know it is exciting to see a friend or family memeber but pull your carts way over and leave an area in the middle where we can all get through and continue to go about our business. It has nothing to do with being Mexican, it has everything to do with manners and being considerate. I am not going to say all white people or all black people or hispanic people are no good because I encountered the one who would not move out of the middle of the aisle for me. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by jenna0795:
I can definitely see the value in us learning theirs too. It is interesting what is happening here, I call them growing pains.


I was born here, English is my language. They are here illegally & should learn English so they can understand our language.
Why should I make it easy for them by learning their language?
I don't care if they are Mexican, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Guatemalans or what they are.
I would like for them to know what I'm saying if I say "excuse me" & then get out of the way.
If anyone gets the chance to watch COPS on Court TV anytime soon, (it should be replayed again.

Anyway, just to make a Point that the Border Patrol COP made was that MEXICO was now a place for the WORLD to immigrate to, and THEN to the USA.

He showed on camera that there were MANY different Nationalities sneaking over the Border from Mexico, not just Mexicans. Asians carry a very large percentage.

Even the Border Patrol COP was afraid of their motives.
quote:
Originally posted by jenna0795:
I am not going to say all white people or all black people or hispanic people are no good because I encountered the one who would not move out of the middle of the aisle for me. Wink


My point was that they didn't seem to understand what myself & the other people were saying when we were needing to get around them. You say excuse me to most people & they understand what you are saying & will move.
Yes, Yankeewitch. After graduation from nursing school, I briefly worked at a buffet type restaurant. Everyone who worked in the back of the house was either Mexican of Chinese.

One day a customer requested more catfish on the bar. I asked the attendant. He looked confused and answered, "no understand." Taking a page from my nursing training, I asked the second time in Latin for "felis ichthus."

You should have seen the expression on his face. Then he truly didn't understand...

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