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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion titled "Fundamentalism and Moderates" which was begun by our once again departed Forum Friend, DeepFat, TigrTrek tells us, "A lot of believers reject the notion of a 6000 year universe. Many accept a gap theory that between the first verse of Genesis and the second a great deal of time elapsed. I believe God created the universe. I don't pretend to understand how. I've personally never believed time had much meaning with God."

And, I asked Tigr, "Just out of curiosity -- where do you stand on the Gap Theory? And, regardless of which way you believe -- can you support it from Scripture? Our salvation does not depend up which way we believe on this; but, I have had some interesting discussions on the matter."

He responded, "To be honest Bill I had not heard of the gap theory until fairly recently. I understand people like Schofield held to this view. It may sound shallow but I've never studied Genesis very much nor End Time prophecy either. I know God created this universe and He will determine its final fate. Too many Christians get caught up in endless debates about prophecy. I'll do some study and get back with you sometime. God bless."

While it is true that our beliefs about the Creation, End Times (eschatology), and Prophecy do not affect, neither giving nor denying, our salvation -- I do believe they are important for all Christians to understand. There are several good reasons to discuss Creation, Eschatology, and Prophecy.

First, discussions such as these do cause believers, and even non-believers, to get more deeply interested in a personal study of the Bible -- which has to have positive benefits for both. Second, the better we understand the Biblical theology which our church believes, teaches, and supports -- the more effective we can be as Christian witnesses.

Third, a better understanding of how all this (our universe and us) came into being, where we are going, and how the final transition will occur -- can and should give all Christian believers a feeling of eternal security -- for we know the plans He has for us (Jeremiah 29:11).

And, a very important reason for studying Creation, End Times, and Prophecy -- is so that we will know when we are in the company of false teachers. False teachers can lead the unsuspecting, vulnerable new seekers down the wrong path -- and false teachers can lead even believers down a path which will cause them to lose the assurance of eternal security which Jesus Christ teaches and promises. Believers do not lose their salvation -- but, they can live insecure lives, without blessed assurance -- when the false teachers have stolen this from them.

Finally, prophecies and their fulfillment are the concrete proof that our Bible is the true and valid Written Word of God.

Now, let's talk about the Gap Theory. Over the years, there have been sincere Christians who believe in and love Jesus Christ -- but, feel that they must compromise Christianity, adjust God's Word -- to fit into the Science Box. They have overlooked the fact that science is a part of the creation; creation is not a part of science. Science is a subset of the Creation. When "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) -- a part of that creation was science and all the laws governing the different fields of science.

However, 150 years ago, when Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species - By Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life." was published in 1859 -- in order for the people to believe the concepts, theories, and postulations Darwin presented in his book -- there was a need for billions of years of evolutionary creation, not thousands of years as we have in Biblical creation. Darwin's evolutionary theory absolutely could not work in thousands of years; therefore anyone following the religion of Darwinian Evolution must deny the Bible and all Biblical teachings on the creation.

And, this is why all secularist and atheists are adamantly against any level of Bible teaching in public schools. Why? Because most intelligent kids, given the truth of both Biblical teaching and Evolutionary teaching -- would stand with the Biblical Creation. Our Science Religion followers cannot allow that intelligent comparison; therefore, they must eliminate the competition which holds the winning cards. They must keep all mention of God, the Bible, Christianity, Jesus Christ, prayer, etc. -- out of public schools.

Teaching our young people this one-sided curriculum is analogous to being told to create a sunset landscape painting -- and being given only one color with which to paint.

With the overwhelming flood of secular and atheist rhetoric, many sincere Christians began to cave in. They felt they had to find a way to accommodate their "science religion" minded friends. And, one method of this compromise is the Gap Theory. In the Gap Theory, we are told that between Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" and Genesis 1:2, "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters" -- it is possible that a long period of time elapsed, maybe even millions or billions of years. Therefore the supposition of an Evolutionary Creation might be valid.

In the Gap Theory, God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1 -- but, then that earth became so corrupt, so evil, that God decided to destroy it and start all over again. Thus, in Genesis 1:2, the earth was formless and void due to this destruction God brought upon the previous earth and its inhabitants.

Then, in Genesis 1:3, "Then God said, 'Let there be light;' and there was light'" -- God began to create our present heavens and earth. Yet, with this compromising hypothesis of a Gap Theory -- the next natural compromise is to agree that the six days of creation were also six periods of millions or billions of years. Once one begins to compromise -- where do we stop?

No, there was no previous heavens and earth as postulated in the Gap Theory. God's creation of this heavens and earth began in Genesis 1:1 -- just as God's Word begins in Genesis 1:1 and continues all the way to Revelation 22:21.

Jesus Christ confirms this when He tells us, in Mark 10:6, "But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.'" Jesus, God, is telling us that "from the beginning of the creation" God made Adam and Eve. I do not know of any scientist who will openly declare that Adam and Eve were created "billions" of years ago. No, they were created "thousands" of years ago. Therefore, the Creation was "thousands" of years ago -- not "billions" of years ago.

Why was the earth "formless and void" in the beginning? Because that is the way that God, in His wonderful omniscience, decided to do it. After all, He is the Master Architect and the Master Builder -- He could do it any way He chose. He chose to create the heavens and the earth from nothing.

He started with a sphere which He created from nothing, and it was "formless and void" like the clay when a potter first begins to work with it. Then God formed, shaped, and filled His creation -- this universe which includes our earth. And, His last and most important act of creation was man -- "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, . . ." (Gen 1:27-28). No Adam and Steve in this scenario. And, no Eve and Rosie.

No, my Friend, we have no reason to be ashamed of declaring the Bible, just as it is, to be the Written Word of God -- nor do we have any reason to compromise what He has authored. We are told in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."[/b] In other words, He has given us everything we need in the Bible to be able to secure our own salvation -- and to bring many others to salvation in Jesus Christ. We just have to use the Tool He has given us -- and stop trying to compromise it, adjust it, or modify it to fit the teachings of false teachers.

There is no need to compromise the Written Word of God in an attempt to make it fit into a Science Religion box; nor to compromise it to make it fit man-made religions and theologies. God has given us, in the Bible, all that we need to assure our salvation -- and our peace of mind in this life. He has given us His promise of eternal security. All we have to do is to believe and receive (John 1:12) His free gift of salvation as described so well by Him in His Bible.

Let us stop looking for ways to compromise the Word of God to the world -- and start looking for more ways to please God and to bring more unsaved people into His Family.

As the apostle Paul tells us in Romans 1:16, [i]"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
My Friend, this is God's way, speaking through the writing of Paul, of telling us that -- in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, there is salvation for everyone who will believe and receive it.

If you have not yet received this "free gift" -- you need only to sincerely invite Him to come into your heart, into your life, and be your Lord and Savior. If you do this -- He WILL come in, just as He promises in Revelation 3:20. Today, right now, is the very best time to do this; for none of us are promised a tomorrow.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Darwin's evolutionary theory absolutely could not work in thousands of years; therefore anyone following the religion of Darwinian Evolution must deny the Bible and all Biblical teachings on the creation.



Only for those too stupid to understand.

Darwin no more knocked God out of the ballpark that Galellio did when he proved beyond a doubt that the Eath orbits the sun, not the other way around.

People like you Bill are the equivient of the pope who locked Galellio away for years until he recanted.

The Catholic finally released an apology just a few years ago. 500 years too late.

No, the snake handling people like you who are denying the science are guilty of pushing believers away from God with your insistence on denying the obvious and embrace ignorance or perish.

Your fundamental brand of faith breeds ignorance and bitterness instead of love and intelligence. No thanks.
So sad Sofa King. My heart breaks for you that you are so obviously headed to spend eternity in hell. Your determination in the name of intelligence to reject the grace and love that God so freely offers can only leave you with no peace. I can only pray that God will reveal Himself to you and draw you to Him. There are many biblical truths that took science years to catch up to but knowledge will never bring one to Christ and salvation. No snake handler here. That comment only showed real ignorance.
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So sad Sofa

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So sad Sofa King. My heart breaks for you that you are so obviously headed to spend eternity in hell.


Now, Shoals Resident- THIS is so wrong. It's not your job to condemn someone else. Sofa is entitled to his opinion, stated it, and should not be threatened with eternal ****ation- this is hateful and not productive. Our faith is known to God alone- who are you to say this to another person???? This gives Christianity a bad name. We are supposed to be charitable, merciful and peaceful. You got the rest of your post right, but I take strong offense to the first statement.
None of us should be sure of our "salvation". We walk the line every day. Salvation is not a one-stop shop,its not like you've got it,and you're "good to go". We all need to repent and ask God for His Mercy every day.
Last edited by Former Member
I am not condemning or judging. God has already done this. His Word states that those who reject Him are condemned to eternity in hell. Sofa King's own words were "No thanks." And yes I do have assurance of my salvation by faith thru God's Word. Only one example of many verses - I John 5:11-13 "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life." You may have "a line to walk" but Christ died once for my sins. I repent daily for my sins but my salvation is secure in Him. Praise the Lord it is not up to me to earn my salvation. It is thru grace by faith and that faith is a gift from God, not of myself.
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my salvation is secure in Him. Praise the Lord it is not up to me to earn my salvation. It is thru grace by faith and that faith is a gift from God, not of myself.
Posts: 9 | Registered: 13 January 2010


God will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. You don't have a "free pass"to heaven just because you accept that Jesus is your Savior! You have a job to do here on earth.You will never be "worthy" of entering the kingdom of God- you need to rely every day on God's mercy. It's not a given...
And Sofa doesnt say "NO THANKS" to the Holy Spirit
"-Your fundamental brand of faith breeds ignorance and bitterness instead of love and intelligence. No thanks."
He's probably beating his head against the wall at things being taken outofcontext! He's saying No thanks to fundamentalism and bitterness! . Me too!
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Originally posted by vplee123:
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So sad Sofa

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So sad Sofa King. My heart breaks for you that you are so obviously headed to spend eternity in hell.


Now, Shoals Resident- THIS is so wrong. It's not your job to condemn someone else. Sofa is entitled to his opinion, stated it, and should not be threatened with eternal ****ation- this is hateful and not productive. Our faith is known to God alone- who are you to say this to another person???? This gives Christianity a bad name. We are supposed to be charitable, merciful and peaceful. You got the rest of your post right, but I take strong offense to the first statement.
None of us should be sure of our "salvation". We walk the line every day. Salvation is not a one-stop shop,its not like you've got it,and you're "good to go". We all need to repent and ask God for His Mercy every day.


Yes, we should repent and ask God for his mercy everyday, and with every step we take. It is true that we should not condemn others, that's just plain wrong and does drive a lot of people away.
But technically it actually is a one stop shop, accept Jesus and you're good to go. Hopefully this would be followed by obedience to God but the gift of salvation is not something that God will ever take away, you can at any point reject the gift and throw it away but it will not be taken away.
Once again I was not condemning Sofa King. I was only referring to what God's Word says. I nor anyone else can condemn anyone to hell nor can we save them from hell and give them heaven with Jesus for eternity. He is God alone - He saves, He rules, He judges and He condemns. It is out of love that I share this great gospel. If I had never heard and accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour I would also be lost and headed for hell. I am so thankful someone cared enough to share Christ with me, not only His love and acceptance but also the consequences of rejecting Him. This is a responsibility (commandment) given to all Christians.
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Originally posted by Sofa King:
For the record I am a believer. I believe science reveals the glory of God. I believe God would deeply frown on bilks insistance on denying His works.

Hi Sofa,

Au contraire, my Skeptik Fish Friend. I do not deny God's work; I merely put it in its proper order: science is a subset of the Creation; Creation is not a subset of science.

Let's remember to keep the horse in front of the cart.

By the way, welcome back!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
Once again I was not condemning Sofa King. I was only referring to what God's Word says. I nor anyone else can condemn anyone to hell


Well, you certainly claimed he was going to hell for accepting a scientific fact. That certainly seems just a little judgmental. OK, a LOT judgmental.

I happen to Episcopalian. That would be a "liberal theology" in the books of most of the snake handlers in this skanky little town. I'm used to people like you condemning me for my beliefs so fire away. I'm confident in my final resting place and could not care less what you think.

I was at a funeral recently of a local Catholic. There was a Church of Christ snake handler there. He had the audacity to tell one of my friends AT A FUNERAL that he was concerned that this Catholic person would not enter heaven because she was not a Church of Christ member. It was all I could do not not slap that mean person but it was a funeral, after all.

Bill, did you go to any funerals recently? Or was that you, Shoals Resident?
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Originally posted by Rancid Apple:
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Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
Once again I was not condemning Sofa King. I was only referring to what God's Word says. I nor anyone else can condemn anyone to hell


Well, you certainly claimed he was going to hell for accepting a scientific fact. That certainly seems just a little judgmental. OK, a LOT judgmental.

I happen to Episcopalian. That would be a "liberal theology" in the books of most of the snake handlers in this skanky little town. I'm used to people like you condemning me for my beliefs so fire away. I'm confident in my final resting place and could not care less what you think.

I was at a funeral recently of a local Catholic. There was a Church of Christ snake handler there. He had the audacity to tell one of my friends AT A FUNERAL that he was concerned that this Catholic person would not enter heaven because she was not a Church of Christ member. It was all I could do not not slap that mean person but it was a funeral, after all.

Bill, did you go to any funerals recently? Or was that you, Shoals Resident?


I agree. He claims not to be judging, but come on- there's no "love" in "you're going to hell". That's not the way one goes about lovingly and mercifully spreading the word of God-which is what we are called to do.

So sad that someone would have the audacity to do such at a funeral- God help that person for such a horrible act, especially in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Shame on them!!!

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