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This father is a better man than I. Had this been my son there would have been some serious violence. This is one church that needs to be locked with congregates inside and burned to the ground.

"Snyder is suing the Westboro Baptist church, whose members have picketed the funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality."

http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_7277523?source=most_viewed



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I just would like to say I am not the example and witness and example i am commanded to be lately, BUT there is a rite and a wrong way to confront people when it comes to devient rebelious sinful homosexual lifestyles. These people are not handeling it like they should. I appreciate their stand on the truth but the angry way they are adressing it is wrong to me. The bible does say that homosexuality is an abomination. They come across as careless and angry. The rest of the world sees what we confessing believers do and how we walk out our faith daily! Thank you for your attention.
quote:
These nutjobs are just as much a Christian as any other Christian, aren't they?


Easy answer, no. Read John 3:16 then read the signs they carry, you'll see the difference.

To be a Christian means to follow Jesus' teachings. What they're doing has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity and goes directly against what Jesus taught.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
To be a Christian means to follow Jesus' teachings. What they're doing has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity and goes directly against what Jesus taught.


But they believe with all their hearts that they are doing Jesus biddings.

There are just as many people that would call you a heathen because of your propensity of enjoying a good stout, would you not agree?

You say they are going to hell for their extreme beliefs. They say you are for your liberal beliefs.

Who is right?
quote:
But they believe with all their hearts that they are doing Jesus biddings.

There are just as many people that would call you a heathen because of your propensity of enjoying a good stout, would you not agree?

You say they are going to hell for their extreme beliefs. They say you are for your liberal beliefs.

Who is right?


I have never, not once said anyone on this forum or anywhere else was going to Hell. That's the main reason why I left the CoC. I firmly believe that judging others is not our place. I'm going to go with what I believe, you can go with what you believe, those folks from Westboro can do the same. It's God's place to decide who goes where, not mine.

John 3:16 said that God loved the world. No where in the Bible does it say that God hated a person. He may have hated what a person did, but not the person.

Jesus taught us to love our neighbors, forgive those who have done wrong by us, and not to judge. Those people are doing the exact opposite. Believing you are following Jesus and actually doing it are two different things.

I know there are those who believe drinking alcohol is a sin. The Bible refers to drunkenness as a sin, but not simply having a drink. Jesus' first miracle was going to a wedding party that ran out of wine and making more out of water. I was taught in CoC that he really didn't make wine, he made grape juice. This isn't true. The Bible goes on to say that at parties, the best wine was served first, then the cheaper wine served later when no one could tell the difference. When they got the wine Jesus made, the host said he "saved the best for last". So not only did he make wine, he made really good wine. The Bible didn't say anything about Jesus making grape juice.

Those people are not Christians because they are following a preacher. The preacher spouts BS and hate, so that's what they go with instead of what Jesus actually taught.

To truly be a Christian means you have to actually follow Christ, not some preacher in Kansas or a CoC. It requires you to actually read and learn on your own and not let some big haired 90 year old preacher in cheap suit do it for you.
They believe WHAT in their hearts, GoFish? Not the words of Christ - thus the term CHRISTian. NO, they most certainly are not Christians, a fact that will be all too clear when they hear "Depart from me, I knew you not" one day. They don't even comprehend the term they use to define themselves. I am sick to death of people claiming to be something they are not. Why claim to be something you don't agree with or believe in? That's just pointless, a complete waste of time and serves no purpose. GAH! I'd rather spend all day with my polar opposite that is REAL about what he or she believes than any of this lot.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
They believe WHAT in their hearts, GoFish?


I know not what is in their hearts, of course. I know only that they are doing what the bible commands them to do. For example: "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" (Ps. 58:10)

This is directly form the inerrant word of God, is it not?

Okay, how about Isaiah 58:1-12: "Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins."

See, Joy, these folks are simply doing what the lord tells them to do by taking pleasure in the wrathful outpouring of wrath upon a wicked nation.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
I don't recall ever reading "hate your neighbor if he's a ***" in any translation of the bible I've ever been exposed to.


Do I really need to quote you Leviticus, Zippy? What do you think "abomination" is? Yes sir, the Lord sure does tell us to hate some people, rejoice in the pain of other sinners and kill in His name. It's all right there in the inerrant word of our Lord.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I have never, not once said anyone on this forum or anywhere else was going to Hell.


Perhaps. But your brothers and sisters who believe the same as you darn sure have, Nash. My ex preacher told most of his congregation they were going to hell unless they repennted on a daily basis.

You may disagree with that but you are going against the majority and the leadership, bud. That makes you a heathen. Welcome to my world! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor_Halloween:
I just would like to say I am not the example and witness and example i am commanded to be lately, BUT there is a rite and a wrong way to confront people when it comes to devient rebelious sinful homosexual lifestyles. These people are not handeling it like they should. I appreciate their stand on the truth but the angry way they are adressing it is wrong to me. The bible does say that homosexuality is an abomination. They come across as careless and angry. The rest of the world sees what we confessing believers do and how we walk out our faith daily! Thank you for your attention.


Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. So someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, just simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

**********************

These are the Biblical verses refered to above, in two different translations: the King James Version [KJV], and New International Version [NIV]

Lev 18:22 [KJV] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [NIV] Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Lev 1:9 [KJV] But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. [NIV] He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

Exodus 21:7 [KJV] And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. [NIV] If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.

Lev 15:19-24 [KJV] And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
[NIV] When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

Lev 25:44 [KJV] Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. [NIV] Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Exodus 35:2 [KJV] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. [NIV] For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest.

Lev 21:20 [KJV] Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken [NIV] or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

Lev 19:27 [KJV] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [NIV] Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Lev 11:6-8 [KJV] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
[NIV] The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divied, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcases; they are unclean for you.

Lev 19:19 [KJV] Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. [NIV] Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Lev 24:10-16 [KJV] And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp; 11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of DanSmiler 12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them. 13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. 16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
[NIV] Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of the LORD with a curse; so they brough him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

Lev 20:14 [KJV] And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. [NIV] If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

The above passage was stolen off the internet by me.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
They believe WHAT in their hearts, GoFish? Not the words of Christ - thus the term CHRISTian. NO, they most certainly are not Christians, a fact that will be all too clear when they hear "Depart from me, I knew you not" one day. They don't even comprehend the term they use to define themselves. I am sick to death of people claiming to be something they are not. Why claim to be something you don't agree with or believe in? That's just pointless, a complete waste of time and serves no purpose. GAH! I'd rather spend all day with my polar opposite that is REAL about what he or she believes than any of this lot.


I know not what is in their hearts, of course. I know only that they are doing what the bible commands them to do. For example: "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" (Ps. 58:10)

This is directly form the inerrant word of God, is it not?

Okay, how about Isaiah 58:1-12: "Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins."

See, Joy, these folks are simply doing what the lord tells them to do by taking pleasure in the wrathful outpouring of wrath upon a wicked nation.


Those are not the words of Christ. They call themselves CHRISTians, not Jews. Wink
quote:
Perhaps. But your brothers and sisters who believe the same as you darn sure have, Nash. My ex preacher told most of his congregation they were going to hell unless they repennted on a daily basis.

You may disagree with that but you are going against the majority and the leadership, bud. That makes you a heathen. Welcome to my world!


If they believe it's okay to judge others and tell them they're going to Hell, then they don't believe the same as I do.

A preacher or group of preachers are not the leaders of Christianity. Jesus is, that's why the religion is named after him. If a preacher tells someone they are going to Hell, that preacher has gone against Jesus' teachings. God is the judge, not me, not you, not Brother Old Fart on the pulpit.

Two verses, Matthew 7: 1-2

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

John 8:7, Jesus saves the adulteress from being stoned. (Not in the good way)

"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

I guess your preacher missed those verses.


I heard someone say once that the only people that Jesus openly rebuked were the religious leaders. I need to do some research and make sure that's right. I do know that he stood up to them and challenged their authority. That's why I like Jesus, he challenged the status quo and ticked the old guys off.

Being a Christian doesn't mean I have to follow whatever some preacher tells me. It means I follow what Jesus said and that's it. I'm perfectly capable of reading that on my own.

Personally, I view most preachers the same as car salesmen, I don't trust them. There are some great ones out there, but they are as rare as an honest car salesman.
quote:
...so since we are back on being Christians and what Christ said - when and where did He say anything at all about gays?


I don't know that He said anything about them. I'll have to double check.

Personally, I think homosexuality is wrong and quite frankly it grosses me out. I have no animosity towards gay people, it's just the acts that repulse me. If that's what someone wants to do in their own home, it's none of my business. My only request is to keep it out of my business and don't flaunt it in my face.
From GoFish:
quote:
I am absolutely certain that these people have dedicated themselves to the lord Jesus with all their hearts and professed "belief" just as much as any of you "true" Christians. In fact, it could probably be said that they "walk the walk and talk the talk" better than any of you.


Man, this is hard to write! To know exactly what to say!

This group's Walk and Talk is nothing like my Savior's.

John 13:34-35 (This is Christ speaking to his disciples.)
34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

How did Christ love us?
Romans 5:8
5 But God has made clear his love to us, in that, when we were still sinners, Christ gave his life for us.

How do we love?
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
2 If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing.
3 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.
4 Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self. Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut, Doesn't have a swelled head,
5 Doesn't force itself on others, Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle, Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,
6 Doesn't revel when others grovel, Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
7 Puts up with anything, Trusts God always, Always looks for the best, Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.
8 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit.
9 We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete.
10 But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.
11 When I was an infant at my mother's breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.
12 We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!
13 But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

I see no love anywhere in these people. They spew hate, the antithesis of God. The best way to know a Christian is to see how they love people. Especially people they don't agree with.

I am sorry, GoFish and others, that you have been hurt, angered, disappointed and disgusted with Christians. My heart is broken that Jesus is represented by people who say and do the exact opposite of what he said to do. I'm including myself in this group, too. If you are really looking for answers to your questions, I hope that you will go to the Original Source and start there.
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
...so since we are back on being Christians and what Christ said - when and where did He say anything at all about gays?


Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as ha lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
They believe WHAT in their hearts, GoFish? Not the words of Christ - thus the term CHRISTian. NO, they most certainly are not Christians, a fact that will be all too clear when they hear "Depart from me, I knew you not" one day. They don't even comprehend the term they use to define themselves. I am sick to death of people claiming to be something they are not. Why claim to be something you don't agree with or believe in? That's just pointless, a complete waste of time and serves no purpose. GAH! I'd rather spend all day with my polar opposite that is REAL about what he or she believes than any of this lot.


I know not what is in their hearts, of course. I know only that they are doing what the bible commands them to do. For example: "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" (Ps. 58:10)

This is directly form the inerrant word of God, is it not?

Okay, how about Isaiah 58:1-12: "Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins."

See, Joy, these folks are simply doing what the lord tells them to do by taking pleasure in the wrathful outpouring of wrath upon a wicked nation.


Those are not the words of Christ. They call themselves CHRISTians, not Jews. Wink


BOOOKKK....bok...bok...bok....BOOOOOOKKK Big Grin

Sorry, PR, it's like a plague of late. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them turns up stuffed into a tight space. If I were them, I wouldn't be taking a stroll by myself at night.
for the issue of being a CHRISTian, you can easily tell who is rightly proclaiming this heritage....

the basis of our earthly Christian life is to "..live by the Spirit", Galations 5:16..

the fruit of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.", Galations 5:22..

"You will know them by their fruits..", Matthew 7:16-20..
Last edited by thehippiegirl is gone.
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
I don't recall ever reading "hate your neighbor if he's a ***" in any translation of the bible I've ever been exposed to.


Do I really need to quote you Leviticus, Zippy? What do you think "abomination" is? Yes sir, the Lord sure does tell us to hate some people, rejoice in the pain of other sinners and kill in His name. It's all right there in the inerrant word of our Lord.


I'll stick with Jesus' example. Love the sinner but hate the sin.
quote:
Originally posted by 1968HIPPIEGIRL:
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
...so since we are back on being Christians and what Christ said - when and where did He say anything at all about gays?


Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as ha lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

That is the OLD TESTAMENT, not JESUS. If you want to live under the Old Law then you cannot eat pork or catfish. You can sell your daughter into slavery, and you should kill your neighbor who works on the Sabbath. You can't have it both ways. Either you are under the Old Law or under the Law of Christ. If you are under the Law of Christ - then tell me where Christ speaks out against gays.
You agree not to use language that abuses or discriminates on the basis of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual preference, age, region, disability, etc.


I am wondering wht the TD staff is allowing the hate speech towards this religious sect. ?

Or, does the rule only apply to the religions deemed appropriate to the masses?

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