Which Theory of Evolution Do You Believe?

Not an atheist, I believe that life evolved on this planet, planned by a divine being.  The migration theory only pushes back the limits of where life evolved.

Note:  the Catholic Church accepts the above theory. (I'm Protestant).

I don't know where life came from. I know that I have listened and will still listen to all the theories out there and discard the ones that make no sense. I've posted that the first theory I was presented, a god, I believed for a while, and then I just couldn't believe that one anymore.

You said it was "humorous" to you that some say life came from another planet, ask where that life came from, yet you are perfectly comfortable saying a god that was always here made a man out of dirt. You think everyone should accept that with no questions. So of course I wonder why you can't accept life from another planet that "was always there". The same thing applies to your question about life beginning "spontaneously". Why not? If you believe a god that was always here can make a man out of dirt, why couldn't either of the other theories you mentioned be true?

Bill has said that the bible is his "user manual". A book that was written by superstitious men, ignorant of the facts is his user manual. (Ignorant of the facts does not mean ignorant, can't wait to see them run with that one). How is the bible any different than other people's theories based on their knowledge, experiments, and what others have done and written about that influenced their thinking? Their "user manuals" if you will.

If a scientist from a hundred or more years ago wrote down his theories, people accepted them until other scientists came along and added to, took away from, or changed something about that theory because of their findings, the believers point to that as total ignorance on the part of all scientists. (They don't know, they always contradict each other) etc. But they don't do the same when it comes to the bible, (oh it doesn't mean that, that doesn't apply anymore, that was written before man knew blah blah-it's still "the word"), and we're somehow wrong by pointing out the flaws in bill's "user manual".

Unless the world can survive for another million years, and probably not even then, man will never know how we came to be here. Whatever happened to put us here has "moved on" so to speak, it has no interest in us, we're not going to "meet it in the sky".

If you believe you will that is fine. But please don't insist I have to believe it, teach it to my children, or allow others to teach it to them in their schools. Please don't use it to discriminate and mistreat people you see as different and don't follow your "user manual". Please keep it out of my politics. Stop fighting wars because of it. As a group hold others (such as Camping) accountable when they use religion to prey on the elderly, fearful and gullible to take their money.

Interventor answered the question succinctly. Jennifer did not answer which she believes, but asked me a question.

Jennifer, I find it silly that extraterrestrial life would plant a one-cell organism here to grow. Surely we would be ready to harvest by now. Isn't it interesting that one could believe a being that came from who knows where could have planted life here, but not God? I doubt that many hold that theory of life's beginnings.

Hey jimi, wanna see something funny? Google Jimi Hendrix in Huntsville.

Jimi, you seem to have some trouble with reading comprehension. Do you believe man evolved from a cell planted from outer space (in whatever manner) or from inorganic matter innate to earth? Simple question.

Fire, what is my first sentance in my post? "I don't know where life came from." And again, no theory is any sillier than a "god that was always here." As for "harvesting", again I stated whatever caused us to be here has (IMO) "moved on and has no interest" in us. Did you read my post?

Yes, I read your post, but all it seemed to say is that you have no idea where life originated with the exception that it was not created by God. If I believed in evolution separate and apart from what God may have structured, I would certainly be attempting to discover how it happened. It also seems from your post that you don't care from whence life sprang; in other words you demonstrate a basic lack of curiosity.

I'm sorry, what was the inorganic matter?

I'm with Jennifer, mostly on this.

It's kinda silly to dismiss the possibility of life in some simple form arriving here from elsewhere (much like plant seeds propagate) and then evolving -and then talk about the magic man in the sky speaking everything into existence in a few days and then taking a break for a belt an' a smoke.

Stuff lands on Earth all the time, all day long. Sure a lot of it burns up getting here, but some of it is big enough to survive the trip. Who's to say one of those big rocks that makes it isn't carrying something besides just rock or ice?

  Comets-great chunks of ice and rock spewing pieces of themselves travel huge distances regularly. Ice, mind you. Ice is water. Water sustains life as we know it. Hydrogen from what I understand is the most abundant element in the known universe.  That water (and whatever it may contain) hadda come from somewhere-and something hadda happen for it to be propelled away from where it WAS to where we see it now.

  I get a mental picture of dandelion seeds floating in a breeze. Those neat little 'helicopter' like seeds that have adapted to be able to travel some distance away from where they originated.

  Other seeds that have sticky coatings and hitch a ride on other things that DO move.

  Stuff like that.

  Plant seeds contain almost everything needed to start life anew somewhere else. All they need are some catalysts like water to provide an environment where nutrients can be trapped and delivered and some heat to accelerate the chemical reaction.

  We could ALL be extraterrestrial in origin. I don't know. It's highly possible.

 I in NO way believe that we were just poofed into existence. That's just illogical.

I guess you didn't read it. I didn't say I didn't care, I said I don't know and I look at all theories, the god one being one I don't believe, and there are others. I wonder of course, but it doesn't consume my life. I could look at a theory tomorrow and say, "That's it"! That's the one that is the most logical and makes the most sense to ME and answers any question I have. But I wouldn't run to the school system and insist they had to teach it to all children, I wouldn't stop people on the street and hand them pamplets and tell them they HAD to accept it or suffer dire consequences.

RP, when I was in college the first time, the theory was pretty much the inorganic matter was a pond of sorts, with just the right conditions, and after a time the inorganic begat organic. As I understand it now the three main theories are that either lightning, volcanoes, or thermal vents led to various types of inorganic matter, even clay, producing a one-cell organism. My first question concerning these theories is where did the inorganic materials come from to start with?

(I gather you read a great deal on your own. I would recommend organic chemistry if you want to read anything even remotely interesting. Inorganic chemistry is the pits.)

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Ah, OK. That question nobody seems to be able to answer. I can't.

"Where did the stuff in the beginning come from?"

I can only figure it came from somewhere else. Our Earth originated, so I've read from another, larger molten, spinning blob made of similar materials.

But then that begs the question-Where did THAT one come from? and so on.....

Yup.  I can only understand so BIG, and so SMALL. After either of those points I tend to get a bit myopic, but that's only because my knowledge is limited-NOT because-as some believe-that it's not my business to know in the first place.

I get such a kick outta people who tell me "it's one of the great mysteries of god."

Horsecrap. Something's only a mystery until ya learn how it works.

Good one RP. Fire, do you ever question where your god came from? Or is it as RP said, it's not your place to question? If you think that can't I rightly say to you that you don't care where you came from?

Stephen Hawking and the Spontaneous Universe. Pleae read the rest at the site.

http://online.wsj.com/article/...469653720549936.html

Our Spontaneous Universe
I have never quite understood the conviction that creation requires a creator.


By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

Physicist Stephen Hawking has done it again. This time he's sent shock waves around the world by arguing that God didn't create the universe; it was created spontaneously. Shocking or not, he actually understated the case.

For over 2,000 years the question "Why is there something rather than nothing?" has captured theologians and philosophers. While usually framed as a religious or philosophical question, it is equally a question about the natural world. So an appropriate place to try and resolve it is with science.

As a scientist, I have never quite understood the conviction, at the basis of essentially all the world's religions, that creation requires a creator. Every day beautiful and miraculous objects suddenly appear, from snowflakes on a cold winter morning to rainbows after a late afternoon summer shower.

Yet no one but the most ardent fundamentalists would suggest that every such object is painstakingly and purposefully created by divine intelligence. In fact, we revel in our ability to explain how snowflakes and rainbows can spontaneously appear based on the simple, elegant laws of physics.

So if we can explain a raindrop, why can't we explain a universe? Mr. Hawking based his argument on the possible existence of extra dimensions—and perhaps an infinite number of universes, which would indeed make the spontaneous appearance of a universe like ours seem almost trivial.

Yet there are remarkable, testable arguments that provide firmer empirical evidence of the possibility that our universe arose from nothing.

One of the greatest sagas in physics over the past century has been the effort to "weigh the universe." Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity explained that space is curved and therefore our universe can exist in one of three different geometries: open, closed or flat. A closed universe is like a three-dimensional sphere, which may be impossible to imagine, but is easy to describe. If you looked far enough in one direction in such a universe you would see the back of your head.

OK. Are we discussing the theory of evolution or the theory of ORIGIN?

I iz confussed.

I'm into 3D modeling, so I dig the sphere thing. I seem to remember somewheres that our universe is supposedly roughly shperical. It would make sense as cubes are just a bizzatch to work out the logistics on.  That and an expansion from a central point out in all directions would logically involve spherical space.

Well before you have evolution, you have to start with something right?

I thought it was a good article. Ignore if you wish.

Of course I have, Jennifer, and I made the leap of faith, weighing each possibility. I find it much more easy to believe in God and His ability to create life than I do the ability of a lightning bolt to do so, and may I add do it with something that was created already, but no one knows how or why.

JFTR, I have no problem with evolution that God initiated. I have no problem with six literal days either. It's the evolution without a divine influence that I cannot fathom.

RP, the universe is reputed to be spherical and ever expanding...just like many of us!

Profoundly correct.

I "accept" the overwhelming evidence for evolution and there is only one Grand Theory.  I have pondered the evidence for a divine interventor and reject it based on a profound lack of evidence.

I "reject" the hypothesis that life here came from elsewhere ("transpermia").  Interesting hypothesis (NOT a scientific "theory") but there is zero evidence for it at the moment.  If we find life on Mars and if it works jsut like ours (carbon based, DNA) then that will certainly be intriguing but, for now, that hypothesis is just an out-of-the-box thinking experiment.

I "believe" I will have a beer this evening.  I don't yet have evidence other than past experience. I wil let you know when my belief is confirmed by evidence.

And one more clarification:  Evolution has nothing to say on the origins of life on this planet.  Evolution deal ONLY with the biology that happened sometime after inorganic matter gained the ability to reproduce.

No one knows how life first began on this planet.  All we do know is that it happened and no laws of physics were broken doing so (cue the "2nd law of thermodynamics" creationist argument).

Fire,

You are unable to fathom it because you have not studied it.  That's not a sin.  There are many things I cannot fathom, either.  But just because you cannot grasp how something works doesn't mean you shold introduce a supernatural occurrence.  God does not power my LCD screen even though I have no earthly idea how it works - even though I've studied it a little.

An old scene from a movie, an SNL skit, or some other show, can't remember, comes to mind. Two men were with a group of natives. (For some reason the natives could understand English). ANYWAY, one man was trying to explain to the natives how a cigarette lighter ("firestick")  worked. "There's flammable liquid in the little plastic container, when you press this little lever", and so on. The natives just kept looking puzzled. Finally the other guy grabs the lighter, strikes it and says "It's MAGIC"!!!! The natives all go-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK.

LOL,

Sometimes the answer is not comprehensible.

Yet, one definition of believe is to accept. If you predicate your belief/acceptance of evolution without divine design, surely you must have a desire to know the origin of that first cell, to know the origin of the inert material that produced that cell and still composes our planet.

As far as studying evolution, I have a minor in biology and a BS in nursing. That's quite a few science courses, many of which more than touched on evolution.

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Like you I have no problem with evolution that God initiated.  However, I have a real problem with a 6 day , 6000 year old Earth.  The bluffs we see every time we cross the O'neal bridge  heading South are made of  the dead bodies of small shell-fish that used silica to make their shells , not calcium like modern critters do. These shell fish have been extinct for millions of years. Limestone , which makes up the base of the Smoky Mtns is made of shells from modern sea creatures , and if you look at those mountains and realize that they were once covered with ocean, you gotta realize that it took over 6000 years to build that much limestone.

I just don't think all that could happen in 6 days.

There is only one evolution, yet there are a few on the mechanisms of evolution.  I know that evolution itself is a fact. There are no doubts that we as humans, along with every other species on the planet have evolved.

Where it all originated? Don't know.  So far I have not heard any theory of origination that has enough evidence to hold it up.

That, & that someday, when he decides the time is right, the dead are going to crawl out of their grave.

Really? So how did you NOT know that evolution is a fact just as gravity? Why did you confuse origin of life with evolution? I'm not trying to be a smart az about it, I am truly confused on how you went through college and got a degree in nursing, yet still don't understand what evolution is.

Another good question, B. You're on a roll today.

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Time to stock up on zombie repellant

If you will read my initial question, it is two parts. 1. Which version of the initial one cell organism do you accept. You did not answer that. Uno did quite well. 2. Where did this cell come from? We have no answers so far.

As for education...my genetics prof? A Methodist who did not believe in evolution at all. Neither did my Botany I or Micro or A&P II. As I stated in another topic, the only professor I had at three institutions who stressed evolution was an English prof. All these men were brilliant in different ways and ensured their students received a well-rounded education.

I would be pizzed at the lack of education/information I recieved at a college where I paid money to be taught REAL science. Wow. I hate that for you. It is sad that so many teachers these days put their own bias into what they teach. Evolution is a fact, not up for someone in a professor position to decide he or she just don't want to believe it so they won't teach it.

I did answer your question in my first response. I don't think any of the origination ideas have enough evidence, as of yet, to make a decision. So I wait.

On behalf of myself and B, I say thank you.

Fire,

The stuff of life is, aparently, everywhere in this universe.  We find amino acids (the "building blocks" of life) on comets and asteroids.  We have even discovered them floating around in interstellar space.  Amino acids appear to come from complex chemistry that starts with an exploding star.

One of the more profound  aspects of all this is the apparent fact that every atom in your body once had it's components encase in the middle of a star billions of years ago.  Yes, everything heavier than hydrogen and helium originally came from exploded suns.  The atoms in your right hand came from a wholly different sun than the ones in your left.

We are all children of the stars.  Pondering these apparent realities of this vast, complicated universe give me far more intellectual cud to chew than my former religion ever did.  The more you ponder this stuff, the more question there are.  the best thing about it is that there are generally even some satisfying answers for some of these Big Questions. 

Yes, a simple question from a simple-minded person. Look up either-or fallacy.

You have obviously mistaken me for someone who wants to see something funny. If you think it's funny, I am not interested.

Suit yourself jimmah.