Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began last week titled "Is It Really "Free Will" -- Or Coercion?" as expected our atheist Friends have offered their input.  And, I welcome their thoughts and comments -- for this gives me an avenue through which I can share my thoughts and resources on God's Word with everyone.

In that discussion, my devout atheist Friend, Uno, asked several times, "Bill, you may not have seen my previous question so I will ask again:  Who created Hell?"

So, in my desire to give Uno the best possible answer, I am directing him, and you, to a section of the Blue Letter Bible web site where Don Stewart, of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and host of the KWVE Christian Radio talk show "Pastor's Perspective," has written a fairly complete response to that question.

Uno is wise to have asked this question.  I know that when I traveled a lot on business, I always tried to find out as much as I could about the company I was visiting, their city, and especially the hotel accommodations.  So, Uno, and all our non-believing Friends, will find it is a wise decision to double check their accommodations in the afterlife -- while there is still time to change their reservations.

I pray that Uno finds the answer to his question in this article.  Of course, he can take the normal atheist attitude and pooh-pooh everything the writer is telling us -- but, a wise man, or woman, will take notice of the Biblical references and who inspired them -- God.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HELL
By Don Stewart, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa
http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/hell.cfm

Introduction


This study is an excerpt of the book by Don Stewart entitled "What Everyone Needs To Know About God" -- which is part of The Basic Bible Study Series published by Dart Press, Orange, California.  Used by permission of the author.

Don Stewart has written over twenty books on the subject of evidences for the Christian faith.  These include "You Be the Judge" --  "Ten Reason to Trust the Bible" -- "The Coming Temple" -- "The Basic Bible Study Series."  In the last fifteen years he has spoken in over thirty countries proclaiming the message that the Christian faith is both reasonable and intelligent.


Why Did God Create Hell?

 

If it is God's sincere desire that everyone come to know Him -- why did He create hell in the first place?  Why make a place of judgment for humanity?

The Bible teaches that God did not create hell as a judgment for humanity.  God created hell for the punishment of the devil and his angels and not as a place for human beings to suffer.

Jesus said: "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" (Matthew 25:41).

Hell was created as a place of judgment for Satan and those who followed him in their rebellion against God.  The Bible says that the devil and his angels will eventually be consigned to hell:

"And the devil who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and false prophet are.  And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10).

Human beings, who are created in God's image, are not meant to spend eternity away from the presence of God.  The place God created for them is heaven.  Jesus spoke of this place that God has prepared for those who trust Him:

"In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.  I go to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself (the Rapture), that where I am, there you may be also"  (John 14:2,3).

Hell was not created for humanity, but it is the destination for those who reject God's salvation in Jesus Christ.

 

Why Would a God of Love Send People to Hell?


Some people wonder how hell can be reconciled with a God of love.  Why, they ask, would a God of love allow people to go to hell?

God of Justice:   The answer to this question is that God is a God of holiness and justice -- as well as a God of love.  These moral attributes are complementary, not contradictory.  When the laws of God are disobeyed there must be a judgment.  God's laws demand that sin must be paid for.  God can still love someone but He cannot allow sin to go unpunished.  This is the reason that Jesus Christ came to earth, to die for the sins of the world.

"Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many"  (Matthew 20:28).

The emphasis should not be placed upon hell -- but by the fact that God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to show His  love for mankind:

"For when we were without strength in due time Christ died for the ungodly.  For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.  But God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us"  (Romans 5:6-8).

God has shown His love by sending His Son to die for our sins -- to take our punishment -- so that we could go to heaven.  The  judgment of hell is for those who refuse to accept God's love and forgiveness.


Will God Send People to Hell?

 

The Bible speaks about a place of final judgment for those who do not believe in the salvation provided by Jesus Christ.  This place is known as hell.  It is not a geographical place, but a state of existence.  Jesus spoke of it as a place of eternal punishment.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment. . ."  (Matthew 25:46).

Final Judgment:  In the Book of Revelation the Apostle John wrote concerning a final judgment of the wicked:

"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened.  And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life.  And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. . . And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12,15).

The reality of a final judgment is clearly taught in Scripture.  But the Bible also indicates that the people who go to hell do so because they have rejected God's provision for salvation.  The Bible says that God does not want anyone to go to hell:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Thus we conclude by saying:   The Bible teaches the reality of a final place of judgment for the wicked.  Those who spend eternity in hell, do so because they rejected God's love and His provision for salvation.  It is God's desire for everyone to come to Him by  faith and receive the salvation that He offers.

 

In the article above, all bold, italic, underlined, double-hyphenated,

and parenthetical emphasis is mine.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Uno, my Friend, are you ready to upgrade your reservations to First Class, i.e., heaven -- and avoid the reservations you seem to currently hold?  If so, it is very simple -- just SINCERELY turn from following your worldly gods -- and turn 180 degrees and begin to follow Jesus Christ.  Then, you will be a Christ Follower and have a guaranteed First Class reservation for heaven -- the abode of God  Himself.

If you need help in making this eternal step, please feel free to contact me.  I will be happy to chat with you on the Religion Forum, via Private Messaging, or even by telephone.  My greatest desire is not to do verbal or written combat with you -- but, to see you gain eternal life in Jesus Christ.  Nothing would make me happier than to, one day, walk in fellowship with you in the presence of  Almighty God -- for eternity.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

God-Is-Love-reduced

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Thanks. So your perfect, loving god did, indeed, construct Hell for those who dare to think outside the box.  Nice.

So by that reasoning, if my son "chooses" to not love me anymore, I would be perfectly "justified" in punching him in the jaw and throwing him in a closet for a few weeks until he decides he loves me again?  Is that about the jest of it? 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

And the irony of your huge "God is Love" pic is almost alarming.  So god LOVES you but if you don't love Him back, you will be tossed in the lake of fire.  Tough love there, Yahweh.

With all this crazy hell storm stuff uno, you're just worrying yourself to a early grave

(that can't be good). Myself, I don't believe in the tooth fairy, so I'm not going to

rail against it. March against it or waste my time on it.

For someone to rant against what doesn't exist, well.....

 

When I got a speeding ticket doing 85 in a 55, did I do that to myself

or was I framed?

 

.

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

quote:    Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

Thanks.  So your perfect, loving god did, indeed, construct Hell for those who dare to think outside the box.  Nice.


Hi Uno,

 

It seems you have a reading comprehension problem.  So let me hold your hand and guide you through this:

 

Jesus said: "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" (Matthew 25:41).

 

It just so happened that after God created hell for Satan and his angels -- the atheists insisted they be allowed there also.  And,  God being a loving God -- and since there was plenty of room (God always plans ahead), He allows all the atheists and their bedfellows, the vanilla-flavored non-believers -- to join Satan and his gang -- if that is their sincere desire.  They all gather around and sing, "There will be a hot time in the old town tonight!"

 

Uno, judging (that word will tickle the tummies of the atheists) by your reading problem -- I would say the "Florence School Board" needs to concentrate more on getting better reading comprehension classes in that school system -- and less ACLU training.  Just a thought.   You might want to pass this on to the school board at the next public meeting.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

------------------------------------

Did anyone force you not to believe in God? People work these things out for

themselves, like you did......And the beat goes on.

Have you seen any good movies lately?

.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

--------------

Well Jenn, You seem to hate people who believe in God.

 

.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

--------------

Well Jenn, You seem to hate people who believe in God.

 

.

******************************************************************************************************

 

Do you need money to buy a new "hate" card? You guys have almost worn out the one you use now. Pitiful.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

--------------

Well Jenn, You seem to hate people who believe in God.

 

.

******************************************************************************************************

 

Do you need money to buy a new "hate" card? You guys have almost worn out the one you use now. Pitiful. 

Originally Posted by Jennifer:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Invic, do you want your kids forced to believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want your government run by people who believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want others to hate and oppress anyone that doesn't believe in the tooth fairy? Do you want old folks and the gullible robbed of their money to give to the tooth fairy? That is one of the silliest "arguments" I've ever seen.

--------------

Well Jenn, You seem to hate people who believe in God.

 

.

******************************************************************************************************

 

Do you need money to buy a new "hate" card? You guys have almost worn out the one you use now. Pitiful. 

------------------------

You guys??

 

.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Yes invic, you guys. The ones that take any kind of disagreement to your god as hatred.

This should be clear-----You can hate God all you want, I'll not concern myself

with it. If I wanted your agreement on a religious matter I would tell you to

stay away from the Bible.

 

.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Yes invic, you guys. The ones that take any kind of disagreement to your god as hatred.

This should be clear-----You can hate God all you want, I'll not concern myself

with it. If I wanted your agreement on a religious matter I would tell you to

stay away from the Bible.

 

.

*******************************************************************************************************************
 
Invictus, there is no god to hate. That's your delusion not mine. I do stay away from the bible now. Maybe you should too. All that hate, vengence, murder, incest, can't be good for you.

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 

When I got a speeding ticket doing 85 in a 55, did I do that to myself

or was I framed?

 

.

---

Did that yourself.  But the punishment for that is life in prison in solitary confinement.  Did you "choose" that?  Isn't that just a little excessive by today's moral standards?

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 

When I got a speeding ticket doing 85 in a 55, did I do that to myself

or was I framed?

 

.

---

Did that yourself.  But the punishment for that is life in prison in solitary confinement.  Did you "choose" that?  Isn't that just a little excessive by today's moral standards?

Just curious unoi………..in the totally atheistic world, would there be a speed limit on roadways?

………..or would folk who want to live life to the fullest in the fast lane race on at the risk of others?

That’s why Christians disallow you to ƒthings up for everyone else. Sit down and be quiet.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Well Jenn, You seem to hate people who believe in God.

 

.

**********************************************************************

I haven't seen that in Jenn at all. She's mentioned several times having friends & family that believe in God & she doesn't hate them. I have a family member that is a fanatic when it comes to religion. She & I have had some strong disagreements but I don't hate her. I just hate her method of trying to push her religion off on me. I would guess the same applies to Jenn when people come at her the same way.

Originally Posted by Magpie:

“Dip your finger in the water come and cool my tongue caz I’m tormented in this flame”

A li’l tune that will be sung by jenn.

***************************************************************************

This is what I've been talking about in another topic. Judgment.............it's not a call for you to make. Jenn has as much right to not believe in God as you do to believe. She chooses to believe that there is no God that made man out of a piece of dirt just like you choose to believe he did.

 

I don't believe that Bill Gray is a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm right. But you do know about a Christian bearing fruit & the rotten fruit thing, right?

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
I don't believe that Bill Gray is a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm right. But you do know about a Christian bearing fruit & the rotten fruit thing, right? 

Hi Chick,

 

Because I tell you that God loves you, that God wants you to be saved, that God "paid in full" for your pardon so that you can be saved and spend eternity with Him -- because I tell you, from the Bible, that if you continue to refuse His offer of the "free gift" of eternal life -- and continue to deny to allow Him to be your Lord and Savior -- that YOU are condemning yourself to an eternity in hell -- in your mind, this proves I am not a Christian.  Do I have all your evidence correct?  Or, is there more? 

 

Chick, since you say that I am not a Christian -- can you tell us how a person can become a Christian believer?  How can I become a Christian believer?  And, if I, or another person, do become a Christian believer -- what happens with me, him, or her after death?

 

Then. let's look at the flip-side.  How does a person continue to be a non-believer?   And, if that person continues to be a non-believer and dies in this state of non-belief -- what happens with him/her after death?

 

Chick, I am sincerely interested in your answers.  And, I believe all the Christians on the Religion Forum are also interested.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
I don't believe that Bill Gray is a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm right. But you do know about a Christian bearing fruit & the rotten fruit thing, right? 

Hi Chick,

 

Because I tell you that God loves you, that God wants you to be saved, that God "paid in full" for your pardon so that you can be saved and spend eternity with Him -- because I tell you, from the Bible, that if you continue to refuse His offer of the "free gift" of eternal life -- and continue to deny to allow Him to be your Lord and Savior -- that YOU are condemning yourself to an eternity in hell -- in your mind, this proves I am not a Christian.  Do I have all your evidence correct?  Or, is there more? 

 

Chick, since you say that I am not a Christian -- can you tell us how a person can become a Christian believer?  How can I become a Christian believer?  And, if I, or another person, do become a Christian believer -- what happens with me, him, or her after death?

 

Then. let's look at the flip-side.  How does a person continue to be a non-believer?   And, if that person continues to be a non-believer and dies in this state of non-belief -- what happens with him/her after death?

 

Chick, I am sincerely interested in your answers.  And, I believe all the Christians on the Religion Forum are also interested.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Bill, just because I said I didn’t believe you to be a Christian, where in the world did you get it was because you tell me that God loves me, that God wants me to be saved, that God "paid in full" for my pardon so that I can be saved and spend eternity with Him -- because you tell me, from the Bible, that if I continue to refuse His offer of the "free gift" of eternal life -- and continue to deny to allow Him to be my Lord and Savior -- that I am condemning myself to an eternity in hell??????  No, you most certainly do not have all your evidence correct!!!  And yes, there is more but not more of what you said. You’re putting words in my mouth…..again.

 

Why should I tell you how you or anyone can become a Christian believer, or what happens to you/them after death???  You, who claims to be forever saved & that God told to become a writer?

 

The flip side?  I’m supposed to tell you how a person continues to be a non-believer, & what happens with him/her after death? Am I supposed to believe that you’re serious & don’t already know these things? No, Bill, you are not sincerely interested in my answers.

 

I know what you’re doing, which is being a smart aleck & sarcastic. If all the Christians on this Religion Forum are also interested, they certainly don’t need me to tell them those things. If they don’t know, then they can open the Bible & find all the answers there. I don’t tell you to do that because you let everyone on this forum know everyday that you are God’s chosen one & you know all there is to know. There’s no more for you to learn because you aren’t willing to learn.

 

Why don’t I believe you’re a Christian? I’ve said it before & I’ll say it one more time.

You do more harm to Christianity than you do to help it. You have run people off from this forum with your condemning, judgmental ways.

 

The Bible says to "owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

 

It also says you’re to “love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."

 

 Most of us on this forum must be your enemies according to the way you talk down to us. But you certainly don't do what that scripture says you're supposed to do.  All we ever see/hear out of you is condemnation. There’s no love/compassion within your heart for anyone on this forum. Those traits are not within you.  

You recently told me you had never told anyone on this forum they were going to Hell. That's a lie, you’ve said it many times.

You can call all of us on this forum your friends all day long but it doesn't make it so. You can end every post with your God Bless message but it doesn't impress us at all.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
 

When I got a speeding ticket doing 85 in a 55, did I do that to myself

or was I framed?

 

.

---

Did that yourself.  But the punishment for that is life in prison in solitary confinement.  Did you "choose" that?  Isn't that just a little excessive by today's moral standards?


************************************************************************************************************

 

Again, we're talking about superstitious barbaric men that had no idea how the world really worked, so of course their hell would be as horrible as they could think up. Human life didn't mean a lot to them, and to just threaten someone with death didn't have a lot of "bang for the buck" so to speak. But tell them they won't actually die, but spend eternity burning, and you had their attention.

 We've been over this a hundred times but it is what it is-amazing that anyone could call a god loving and kind, but still say that he'd send people that didn't believe in him to a hell.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Crusty, when one is dealing with unpredictable human beings, one MUST be willing to change one's mind in order to deal with the changing condidtions these unpredictable humans put themselves in.

********************************************************

Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by O No!:

Crusty, when one is dealing with unpredictable human beings, one MUST be willing to change one's mind in order to deal with the changing condidtions these unpredictable humans put themselves in.

********************************************************

Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.


______________________________________________________________________________

You've got a good point there, Semi. Men are ENTIRELY too predictable!

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by O No!:

Crusty, when one is dealing with unpredictable human beings, one MUST be willing to change one's mind in order to deal with the changing condidtions these unpredictable humans put themselves in.

********************************************************

Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.


______________________________________________________________________________

You've got a good point there, Semi. Men are ENTIRELY too predictable!

****************************

 

I knew you would say that.

 
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.

Originally Posted by O No!:

You've got a good point there, Semi. Men are ENTIRELY too predictable!

********************************************************************************************

If we women were predictable, men would find life so boring.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
 
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.

Originally Posted by O No!:

You've got a good point there, Semi. Men are ENTIRELY too predictable!

********************************************************************************************

If we women were predictable, men would find life so boring.

6666666666666666

you got that right chick and there are no predictable species on here.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
 
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Especially females. Has nothing to do with religion but I just thought I would throw

that in there.

Originally Posted by O No!:

You've got a good point there, Semi. Men are ENTIRELY too predictable!

********************************************************************************************

If we women were predictable, men would find life so boring.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yep, thank God for unpredictable women for keeping us men from being bored. Otherwise we men would have to rely upon SEC football and bass boats.

 

And that would be hell, don’t you know.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Crusty, when one is dealing with unpredictable human beings, one MUST be willing to change one's mind in order to deal with the changing condidtions these unpredictable humans put themselves in.

Interesting rationalization for an omnipotent God.

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