Skip to main content

.

 

35 And Jesus said to them: "I am the bread of life. He that comes to me shall

not hunger, and he that believes in me shall never thirst. 

36 But I said unto you that you also have seen me, and you believe not. 

37 All that the Father gives to me shall come to me — and him that comes

to me, I will not cast out. 

38 Because I came down from heaven, not to do

my own will but the will of him that sent me. 

 

39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he has

given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. 

40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who sees

the Son and believes in him may have life everlasting. And I will raise him

up in the last day."

41 The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: "I am the

living bread which came down from heaven." 

 

( This has nothing to do with manna of the desert, the stuff they ate

was for food only.)





42 And they said: "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and

mother we know? How then says he: 'I came down from heaven?'"

 

( It was hard for many to believe what Jesus was saying, many did believe

the words of Jesus because they knew he is the messiah. Many today say

they don't believe Jesus because,,,??? )

 

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them:

"Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, unless the Father, who has sent me, draws him.

And I will raise him up in the last day. 

45 It is written in the prophets: 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Every

one that has heard of the Father and has learned comes forth me. 

46 Not that any man has seen the Father; but he who is of God, he has

seen the Father

 

47 Amen, amen, I say unto you: He that believes in me has everlasting life.

48 I am the bread of life. 

49 Your fathers ate manna in the desert, and are dead. 

50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven: that if any man eat

of it, he may not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of

this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh,

for the life of the world."

 

( What is called the Holy Eucharist is a precept, a gift from the Father

through Jesus that will be here for us until the last days.

There isn't anything in John 6 that says - once saved, always saved.

Nor is there anything in the complete Bible that teaches it.)





 

 

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Do you believe that someone who is truly saved, who knows God is who He says He is and has a personal relationship with Him and knows that Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God could possibly lose his/her salvation? If a person truly Knows God do you think he/she would ever turn away from God?

39. Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all He has given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.

Originally Posted by Gingee:

Do you believe that someone who is truly saved, who knows God is who He says He is and has a personal relationship with Him and knows that Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God could possibly lose his/her salvation? If a person truly Knows God do you think he/she would ever turn away from God?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I realize you don't believe in Freewill, but it is a fact from God.

if the Bible actually taught osas, if Jesus actually said that in the

confines of the Bible, if the notion of osas was logical or made any sense

in relation to the over all meaning and message of the Bible.

I would be the first one to jump all over it. Head first.

 

39. Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all He has given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.

 

Vic

You say the concept of eternal security is not logical. Is salvation a gift from God and we accept through repentance and faith or is it something that we must accomplish on our own? If its truly a gift from God and he takes it back because we do something He doesn't like is it really a gift? 

 

Christ delivered us from the law. Eternal security is not a license to sin far from it. (Rom. 6:1) However, it is the quiet assurance that we have that we are covered by the blood and we don't have to worry about following rules, regulations and guidelines just so or be lost eternally. 

Originally Posted by Red Baron:

Vic

You say the concept of eternal security is not logical. Is salvation a gift from God and we accept through repentance and faith or is it something that we must accomplish on our own? If its truly a gift from God and he takes it back because we do something He doesn't like is it really a gift?

 

Christ delivered us from the law. Eternal security is not a license to sin far from it. (Rom. 6:1) However, it is the quiet assurance that we have that we are covered by the blood and we don't have to worry about following rules, regulations and guidelines just so or be lost eternally. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When that concept of etemal security is based on OSAS, then yes.

Salvation comes from our will to choose between right or wrong, that is

still our freedom of chose. We gain salvation Biblically through our faith,

love and actions. If you want to call it a gift, it's a gift we received two

thousand years ago and God doesn't take it back. We give it back, push

it right back in his face, return to sender.

Because we lack the courage to drag our sanctimonious tepid ass off the

porch and run with the big dogs, we would rather wait for that fictitious

free gift. And with that thought I'm not saying we are capiable to do this

without the Grace from God, I'm saying Biblically we have to at least

show up and make an attempt to express a little gratitude.

 

 

I agree with Vic. While the Bible says no one can snatch us from His hand, I believe that because we have free will, WE can CHOOSE to turn away from Him. I think that is why blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin - turning the Holy Spirit out of ourselves when we choose to turn away from God is the ultimate blasphemy. That is why the Bible says it would be better to have never been born than to turn away from God once we have known Him.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. I believe that we as individuals have free will and must come to Christ when drawn by the Holy Spirit. Once indwelt by the Spirit we follow Him and are kept by Him. When we are disobedient we suffer punishment as believers but the question of Heaven or Hell is settled. I do believe in a sin unto death for believers that become so disobedient they cannot be useful in God's service. Just the way I see it.

Originally Posted by Red Baron:

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. I believe that we as individuals have free will and must come to Christ when drawn by the Holy Spirit. Once indwelt by the Spirit we follow Him and are kept by Him. When we are disobedient we suffer punishment as believers but the question of Heaven or Hell is settled. I do believe in a sin unto death for believers that become so disobedient they cannot be useful in God's service. Just the way I see it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do agree with some of what you say, so I wouldn't call it a "agree to disagree".

Some day when we're in heaven and it's just not going to matter.

And I'll say, " have you seen the dog Quail? I ask because no one has

ever seen him here yet.


 

Originally Posted by Red Baron:
If its truly a gift from God and he takes it back because we do something He doesn't like is it really a gift? 

Christ delivered us from the law. Eternal security is not a license to sin far from it. (Rom. 6:1) However, it is the quiet assurance that we have that we are covered by the blood and we don't have to worry about following rules, regulations and guidelines just so or be lost eternally. 

___

(What I say is based on IF God does exist)

 

Red, I respect you, your position as a Christian & enjoy reading your post but I do have some questions.

If God can take a human being that is not a bad person, but good in every way except walk His line, & throw that person into a pit of fire, a pit that was supposedly made for Satan & His angels, then why can’t He take a gift back? Would taking that gift back be any worse than throwing a good person in His pit?

 

Most times, it’s the person, (like me) that’s so discouraged nothing makes sense anymore, so they give the gift back, so to speak. Giving it back would be turning away from the path you were walking & choose a path in another direction. Why anyone would want to walk a path full of misery is beyond me. After awhile you get tired, & want to go the other way.

 

If eternal security is not a license to sin, then where does OSAS come in? If a person has eternal security, no matter if he sins or not, is he not going to Heaven? Doesn’t OSAS & eternal security mean Heaven in the end? If you don't have to worry about following rules, regulations & guidelines, it shouldn't matter if you sin or not.

Semi

OSAS is not a license to sin. I question the sincerity of anyone who presents the gospel in this fashion. After someone comes to Christ the Bible says they are a new creature and all things have become new. Believers want to please God. I do know that as time goes by we can lose that joy we first had and we need to be restored. Believers DO sin. As i pointed out in a post above I believe in the punishment of disobedient believers even to the point of death.

 

I've had dark times in my life. Many after I became a Christian. At times I seemed to drift but God has always had a way to bring me back. I've had doubts, questions and fears just like everyone else. I've found that prayer, study and time help.

Its my absolute belief that God does not want to send anyone to Hell. That's why he sent his son to redeem us. 

I won't presume to know what you've gone through and how you have come to feel the way you do all I can tell you is my experience and the way I see things. We are all trying to get the most we can out of life and take care of the people we love. I've found that way through Christ Jesus. Sorry to ramble I hope it helps. Take care.

I’m on a first name basis with a few in the Basilica.

I would have to dig through my log books to see how many over the years.  I’m sure the Pope can authorize any amount of power in watts to the final stage of a transmitter where I’m limited to 1500 watts. I suspect this RF signal, from the looks of it current wise is in the neighborhood of 75kva. The operator may have been working a pile-up for a rare station in Heaven. Oddly the Vatican prefix HV [for Heaven I guess] the number designator is the numeral 0 [zero] and the consecutive suffix letter is “A” HV0A are the Vatican call letters. A quick look finds the station is licensed to:

Francesco Valsecchi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-SPLIinWlo  10 meter contact

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

I’m on a first name basis with a few in the Basilica.

I would have to dig through my log books to see how many over the years.  I’m sure the Pope can authorize any amount of power in watts to the final stage of a transmitter where I’m limited to 1500 watts. I suspect this RF signal, from the looks of it current wise is in the neighborhood of 75kva. The operator may have been working a pile-up for a rare station in Heaven. Oddly the Vatican prefix HV [for Heaven I guess] the number designator is the numeral 0 [zero] and the consecutive suffix letter is “A” HV0A are the Vatican call letters. A quick look finds the station is licensed to:

Francesco Valsecchi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-SPLIinWlo  10 meter contact

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×