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quote:
Originally posted by what4:
At present the god of this world is Satan. You can see what kind of mess your god is making. Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.


You see this, Joy? Evolution and sciecne are the work of Satan himself, says Whatfer. And y'all wonder why 21st century people are feelng from religion faster than a swarm of locusts?

And, reading between the lines, Whatfer claims that the poor people of Darfur are deserving of the inhumanity done to them because there aren't enough of them that love Jaysus. What a loving god, huh?
Ruh roh. I respectfully disagree with the statement GoFish quoted you on evolution, what4. As Christians, we don't have nothing to fear from Science. If you are secure in your relationship with your Savior, you know that Science cannot disprove it or the Bible. They can walk hand in hand if it is approached with honesty. Regarding evolution specifically, God is capable of making creatures that evolve. Whether or not there actually are creatures that evolve is still up for debate among scientists & all of us, but it's a fascinating subject.

I wish I could see your response but I gotta get a move on. My sweet baby girl is home!!!! YEA! And we're heading to Grandma's house. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:
Did anyone watch 20/20 tonight? It made me think of this thread. They have a thing about the teenage girl in Kentucky who was forced by her boss to strip, and then perform oral sex on the bosses' fiance. The girl said on the witness stand, "I lost my faith that day, because I kept praying for it to end, and it just kept getting worse".


NBC news has had a short segment each evening for a week or so titled "faith in America". They talk about faith (all religions) like it comes from man and indeed many people talk about "their faith". However if we are talking about real faith the bible states that is a gift from God and not all men have faith. The hope we have is in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and that hope fadeth not away. 1 Peter 1:3

While this girls story is tragic it is common place for tragic events to occur, for her to say she lost her faith one has to ask "what kind of faith did she lose?" It was not the godly sort for sure because once obtained that cannot be lost.

To pray to be delivered from persecution or sword is natural but we like Job must realize that God's will and purpose supersedes ours and to trust him. That is faith that comes from above.
quote:
Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.

The mother of all ignorance and stubbornness.


OK, Whaffer, if evolution is a lie, please explain the origin and advance of species. Give us a scientific explanation that is demonstrable, has evidence to back it up, and which makes logical predictions.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Ruh roh. I respectfully disagree with the statement GoFish quoted you on evolution, what4. As Christians, we don't have nothing to fear from Science. If you are secure in your relationship with your Savior, you know that Science cannot disprove it or the Bible. They can walk hand in hand if it is approached with honesty. Regarding evolution specifically, God is capable of making creatures that evolve. Whether or not there actually are creatures that evolve is still up for debate among scientists & all of us, but it's a fascinating subject.

I wish I could see your response but I gotta get a move on. My sweet baby girl is home!!!! YEA! And we're heading to Grandma's house. Smiler



VERY well said, I agree!!!

God gave man a BRAIN, and with that brain, man has been able to invent things, research, test and come up with cures to things, medications, and forensics.

I see nothing wrong with science, in fact, I admire a good scientist who works for the good of the people.
quote:
Ruh roh. I respectfully disagree with the statement GoFish quoted you on evolution, what4. As Christians, we don't have nothing to fear from Science. If you are secure in your relationship with your Savior, you know that Science cannot disprove it or the Bible. They can walk hand in hand if it is approached with honesty. Regarding evolution specifically, God is capable of making creatures that evolve. Whether or not there actually are creatures that evolve is still up for debate among scientists & all of us, but it's a fascinating subject.


Perfectly said. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
I have to admit though, I bet what4 and Bill probably does make good points, but I never have time to read replies that long, so I just skip over them.

Yep, I am guilty of it!!!


Yes long replies are not really appropriate in a forum such as this and most of the time I'll avoid making long posts. It's better to make several short ones.

Long replies should be reserved for private messages and then only if requested.

Good point. Thanks
Originally posted by what4:
At present the god of this world is Satan. You can see what kind of mess your god is making. Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.

Follow up quote by GoFish:
You see this, Joy? Evolution and sciecne are the work of Satan himself, says Whatfer. And y'all wonder why 21st century people are feelng from religion faster than a swarm of locusts?

And, reading between the lines, Whatfer claims that the poor people of Darfur are deserving of the inhumanity done to them because there aren't enough of them that love Jaysus. What a loving god, huh?


"There is no dark side of the Moon really . . . as a matter of fact it's all dark"
_____________________________________________________________________________________

First off I don’t know anything about the poor people of Darfur and never made any comment one way another concerning them. I suppose my lack of reply to that leaves you the opportunity to reply on my behalf. If you want me to reply to that I will first have to be informed on what you are talking about. You despise the truth GoFish. You hate those who believe the bible is the word of God and who believe that Jesus is the only way of salvation. I’m proud to be on your hate list. You attack me by inventing comments and making insinuations that I never even alluded to. The devil must be proud of you.

GoFish, you first argue there is no God. Then when I post why I know that God exists, you try and attack me by saying that I’m selfish for praying to God to heal my back. I have a responsibility to work to support my family, but you consider that a selfish request on my part. The fact is that God heard me and healed me. You then implied that I have some special hotline with God and that I should use that power to take care of the problems of this world instead of asking God to heal my back. I tell you that this world’s problems are due to people pushing God out of their life and that Satan is the god of this world. The only way I can solve the world’s problems is by making them accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Not until Jesus sets up His eternal kingdom will the problems you refer to be resolved. The best I can do for your concern is to pray that Jesus will come soon, and in the mean time spread the gospel and do my part in helping others as I am able. I am not the answer for the problems in this world. Jesus is the answer.

Now you use this post to make totally off the wall comments without any foundation, saying that I believe science is a work of the devil. Science is not a work of the devil. It seems that according to your logic, since I believe evolution is a deception from Satan, then by default I have concluded that science must be a deception from Satan. Stupidity and deception is all evolution is. Deception is a tool of the devil. You use that tool very well. How do I know that evolution is a lie? Because I know that God exists. I have one up on the atheistic scientists who aren’t aware of that fact yet. This ain’t the first time, and according to their past track record, it won’t be the last time that science is wrong.

You insert conclusions and comments into my post that I never made or implied. I never said that science is the work of Satan. Look at the quote you took from my post. Does it say that science is a work of the devil. I said that evolution is a lie and those who believe it are trusting in the father of lies. When science only looks at some of the facts and ignores others it will not come up with a logical conclusion. There are many holes in evolution that science has yet to address. Evolution is a theory that tries to determine how we came into existence from the study of facts. I can look all around me and acknowledge facts that tells me there must be a Creator. If you and the atheists of the science world want to believe you that evolved from a rock, then that is up to you. I call it like I see it. I’m not in the business of trying to make everybody accept my belief by watering down the truth. I know for a fact that we did not evolve from lifeless substance without an intelligent Creator being involved. I don’t care if the entire world want to flirt with this craziness, I refuse to accept its stupidity.

You have read my posts. The only thing in science that I presently disagree with is evolution. Just because science has made one stupid blunder I’m not going to disregard the many things that science has achieved. It is a fact that there is no credible evidence that proves that evolution is the way we came into existence. You prove that and you will be welcomed by a whole lot of atheists in the scientific world. My friend I would say that there are many scientists that agree with me. Not all scientists are atheists, and science in general is not a work of Satan.

Before anybody starts getting on the bandwagon of GoFish, you’d best read my post, or at least read the quote he took from my post. Don’t assume that an atheist that has no regard for morality and truth is going to properly represent me. He'll do anything he can to destroy my credibility because he considers me an enemy of his atheistic philosophy. I also consider him at present to be a great threat to those who have yet to believe and become founded in Jesus Christ.
quote:
At present the god of this world is Satan. You can see what kind of mess your god is making. Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.


god of world = satan. A = B

"your" god = mess. B = C

Evolution = lie, aka a mess. C = C


A = B = C. Elementary logic, notwithstanding all those points were in one paragraph, one thought.

Gofish does not believe in, much less worship, Satan. neither do I. he's a fiction, a metaphor for the cruddy things that are a part of nature. He may be the god of your world, I don't truck with gods. I prefer the single candle in the darkness of superstition that is the truth, demonstrable truth, evidential truth.
quote:
Don’t assume that an atheist that has no regard for morality and truth is going to properly represent me.
How dare you? How dare you assume that you, and you alone, are endowed with morals and truth? What unmitigated chutzpah. That statement is one of the most uninformed things I have heard you say, and that's saying a lot.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
At present the god of this world is Satan. You can see what kind of mess your god is making. Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.


god of world = satan. A = B

"your" god = mess. B = C

Evolution = lie, aka a mess. C = C


A = B = C. Elementary logic, notwithstanding all those points were in one paragraph, one thought.

Gofish does not believe in, much less worship, Satan. neither do I. he's a fiction, a metaphor for the cruddy things that are a part of nature. He may be the god of your world, I don't truck with gods. I prefer the single candle in the darkness of superstition that is the truth, demonstrable truth, evidential truth.
quote:
Don’t assume that an atheist that has no regard for morality and truth is going to properly represent me.
How dare you? How dare you assume that you, and you alone, are endowed with morals and truth? What unmitigated chutzpah. That statement is one of the most uninformed things I have heard you say, and that's saying a lot.

DF


_______________________________________________

If you begin to misquote and speak for me, then I will call you on it. You dare me to make such a statement? Maybe you don't want to be put in the same boat as GoFish. However, I do believe there is little difference between you and GoFish. My friend my statement can quickly be borne out with a quick review of the posts and how GoFish has distorted what I have said and inserted insunations that were never implied. Many are posting comments in reply to comments I never made. Several posts have been made that took GoFish's conclusion that I consider science a work of the devil on the face value of what GoFish said without ever reading my post. The truth can easily be borne out by those who want to determine this for themselves. There is no need for me to defend my statement. The facts speak for themselves.
________________________________
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Ruh roh. I respectfully disagree with the statement GoFish quoted you on evolution, what4. As Christians, we don't have nothing to fear from Science. If you are secure in your relationship with your Savior, you know that Science cannot disprove it or the Bible. They can walk hand in hand if it is approached with honesty. Regarding evolution specifically, God is capable of making creatures that evolve. Whether or not there actually are creatures that evolve is still up for debate among scientists & all of us, but it's a fascinating subject.

I wish I could see your response but I gotta get a move on. My sweet baby girl is home!!!! YEA! And we're heading to Grandma's house. Smiler


_______________________________________________


Joy,

Am I afraid of science? No. I find much of it fascinating. Do I consider science a work of the devil? No. That is an illusion that GoFish would have you to believe concerning me. A true pursuit of truth leads to a acknowledgement of the existence of God. I applaud science and the many accomplishments made by it. But where science gets on the wrong path and tries to prove something that is based solidly on a lie or deception, in that area I will part company with it. I strongly believe that there are many in the school of science that would agree with me. Not all scientists are atheists, even though that is what GoFish and DeepFat would have us to believe.

I’m not sure how you can believe that we evolved from lifeless chemicals. Maybe you are referring to some process of natural changes that exist through the process attributed to the survival of the fittest explanation. You are going to have to be a bit more specific as to what you are referring to in your respectful disagreement with my quote. I will not water down my explanation of God’s creation by attributing his creation to a natural process due to random chemicals accidentally forming a one celled life form, and then progressing through all the subsequent rungs of the ladder. Science can’t even figure out how chemicals could accidentally form the organic membrane that is required to sustain life. They have yet to focus on the fact that the physical make up of an organism and life are two separate creations. The preposterous belief that an organism can evolve by accident from random chemical reaction has no scientific proof and is a deception from Satan himself. If the first step is impossible, and is only a deception, then all other steps built on this lie are useless stepping stones resting on nothing, Evolution is without a solid foundation. Not only that, but it gets more unbelievable when trying to go from nothing to something on up to the intelligent and complicated life forms that must continually evolve after that. The eye would be impossible to evolve by accident. What would evolve first, the brain, the nerves, the muscles that so intricately control the ability of the eye to focus, or the pupil. The evolutionists give far too much ability to lifeless and ignorant chemicals to some how know what to do next.

God created man from the dust of the ground, so we have no elements making up our human body composition that can not be found in nature. However, life is not a product of lifeless chemicals, and the possibility of us coming into existence without an intelligent designer and maker is totally and completely impossible. We do not exist by evolution. I don’t believe that I could accept such nonsense even if I had never read or heard that God is our Creator.

I don’t doubt that there has been some changes in things since God first created man and all living things. I don’t doubt that God can place within us and his many creatures and plant life the ability to change in some small measure in order to survive. However, I don’t know any evidence that science has found that supports their theory that these small changes will produce the steady progression of life from a rock to a human being. The possibility of any life existing from raw chemicals as evolution states must be accepted by faith, because there remains a large gap in its attempt to logically process the facts. It is a theory that has yet to be proven. This impossibility can’t be believed in without having overwhelming faith that defies reality. It takes less faith to believe in God than it does in evolution. The possibility of us existing today through random accidental acts is stupidity.

Scientists will not call their theory a fact because they know it has yet to be proven. It never can be proven. Man has not evolved from his father the worm, and the monkey is not in my family tree. I stand strong on my statement that evolution is a lie from the father of lies. Satan is still in the deceiving business, and I’m surprised that you would want to associate yourself in any way with this deception. However, you are free to believe and make whatever stand you choose.
Is Science a Work of the devil?

There seems to be many believing that I consider science a work of the devil. That is based on an accusation that GoFish made concerning me. I never said such a remark. I only said that evolution is a lie and deception and that Satan is the father of lies. Those who believe in evolution believe more so in the creation according to Satan than the creation according to God. Now, if you want to conclude from that statement that I consider the entire field of science a work of the devil, then you are no better than GoFish. Look at what I say, and not what GoFish implies that I meant.

Look at another quote from GoFish:
He says that I believe that the poor people of Darfur are deserving of the inhumanity done to them because there aren't enough of them that love Jaysus.

I never responded in anyway to this. I have no idea what GoFish is talking about. Somebody is going to have to fill me in on these people of Darfur.

People, you’d best read what I say for yourself. I have never given GoFish the authority to represent me. He’s the last person I would trust.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
who's not a christian? All you have to do is proclaim yourself one, and interpret the bible any way you want.

DF


DeepFat,

Below your avatar it says Hall of Famer so you've been around this forum a long time and perhaps in life's way a long time too.

Your statement could not be more "right on" everyone proclaims to be a Christian and has a private interpretation of the scriptures.

I've had many people tell me that they had a right to interpret the bible the way they wanted. Is that true? I'm guessing they are mixing the time honored American right of freedom of speech with God's word because the bible does not allow personal interpretations.

You might find this interesting.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The word "private" in the Greek is "idios". Pronounced id'-ee-os.

If it looks familiar it's because from this Greek word we get our English work "idiot".
quote:
Originally posted by bluefishbeagle:
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
who's not a christian? All you have to do is proclaim yourself one, and interpret the bible any way you want.

DF


DeepFat,

Below your avatar it says Hall of Famer so you've been around this forum a long time and perhaps in life's way a long time too.

Your statement could not be more "right on" everyone proclaims to be a Christian and has a private interpretation of the scriptures.

I've had many people tell me that they had a right to interpret the bible the way they wanted. Is that true? I'm guessing they are mixing the time honored American right of freedom of speech with God's word because the bible does not allow personal interpretations.

You might find this interesting.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The word "private" in the Greek is "idios". Pronounced id'-ee-os.

If it looks familiar it's because from this Greek word we get our English work "idiot".


Hold on right there. I resent that, not all Christians are idiots.
Blue,

Thanks.

now, onto your post. Do you equate an individual, private, personal interpretation of the scripture idiocy?

The bible does not allow personal interpretations? wow. That's heavy.

So, whose interpretation is the one, true Interpretation? the book is largely poetic and metaphysical, soft on specifics, altogether lacking in numbers... may I regard your interpretation as the One True Religion?


My friend, the bible is a work of poetry and ancient superstition. You cannot use it as a reference to the truths of the universe. At best, it is a sweet dream. Unless you read the Old Testament, too.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Blue,

Thanks.

now, onto your post. Do you equate an individual, private, personal interpretation of the scripture idiocy?

The bible does not allow personal interpretations? wow. That's heavy.

So, whose interpretation is the one, true Interpretation? the book is largely poetic and metaphysical, soft on specifics, altogether lacking in numbers... may I regard your interpretation as the One True Religion?


My friend, the bible is a work of poetry and ancient superstition. You cannot use it as a reference to the truths of the universe. At best, it is a sweet dream. Unless you read the Old Testament, too.

DF


Deepfat,

Your questions are understandable and very reasonable considering the various interpretations of man and the many different versions of bibles on the shelves today. Yes the religious world has made quite a mess of things. To answer all your questions in the manner they deserve would require many pages and cover almost the whole bible. You most likely want the quick and easy short version. Almost impossible but I'll take a stab at it.

Which interpretation is true? God interprets his word not man.

The bible interprets itself, seldom is an important doctrine left standing alone, there’s always parallel verses to confirm the other. Take nothing out of context; consider who is speaking, who they are speaking to and the entire book, chapter, and verses if necessary. The New Testament cannot be totally understood without considering the Old Testament. Don't use your 21st century mind, try to put yourself in the time period or the writer and his audience. Understanding comes to those led of the spirit and with study. 1Jo 5:20 - 2Ti 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Rightly dividing means considering all scripture as connecting and affirming itself.

The Bible does not contradict itself. If it seems to it is a lack of understanding on our part. God according to the scriptures is not the author of confusion. 1Co 14:33

Now the heavy part (as you say). Yes the bible does contain history, poetry, and is metaphorical. However the bible is a spiritual book, many professing Christians have only an intellectual/historical knowledge of God rather than spiritual knowledge. The natural mind we are born with cannot understand it (unless led by the spirit) even with a lifetime of study 1Co 2:14 Joh 5:39. Many try and the result is religion not righteousness. Maybe I'd better define religion. Religion is man's attempt to satisfy God though works and apart from God's written word. Religion is used 5 times in the bible and never in a saving sense. Ac 26:5 Ga 1:13 Ga 1:14 Jas 1:26 Jas 1:27 Religion and superstition are one and the same. Acts 17:22 The bible does not teach religion it teaches righteousness, the righteousness of God not man. Our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Isa 64:6

To view the bible only as "a work of poetry and ancient superstition" is cutting it far short of what it is, this reply is not an attempt to change your mind only to answer your well put questions with my limited ability. This is probably far more than you wanted so I'll end it here. One last thought though, although I can understand your frustration with all the confusion in the religious world around us that confusion is man's not God's.

Best regards.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
quote:
Originally posted by bluefishbeagle: I've had many people tell me that they had a right to interpret the bible the way they wanted.


If you go to a dozen church's, you will get a dozen interpretation's of the bible. Roll Eyes


_______________________________________________

I would like to share with you where I stand on this issue. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. He said that His sheep know His voice and they follow Him, and that He will not lose one of His own. He did not say if you are my child, you will know all the answers. He did not say, if you are my child, you will agree on everything. It is possible for the child of God to be very confused and tormented with that confusion, but still very much be a child of God. It is possible for the child of God to lose his or her peace and confidence over misinterpretation of the scriptures, and still remain a child of God. It is possible for the child of God to be deceived into thinking that he or she can do anything and totally disregard what Jesus would want. That is a dangerous concept that implies that you can be a child of God and never be changed and continue to go your own way. However, even those who believe this concept can be saved, because if they are truly saved, they will follow Jesus. If they are truly saved, they will not forsake the one who gave His life for them. Love will pull on their heart, and love will direct their steps.

The one thing that must be required for you to be a child of God is to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and understand that Jesus gave His life on the cross as payment in full for your sins. You should also believe that Jesus rose again. This was prophesied of Jesus years before His coming, and His resurrection was also witnessed and testified of by many of His followers who walked with Him before and after His death and resurrection. These who witnessed these things were willing to die for their testimony. They would have been fools to die if they were lying. Any child of God must have at some point in time become aware that he or she is a sinner and needed forgiveness and mercy. Anyone who feels they are morally acceptable in the eyes of God and who feel they need no Savior, will remain in their sins, and remain lost. There are many in this world that will remain lost, because they justify themselves in their sins. They look at those around them and determine that they are as good as the next person, and so Jesus would surely accept them as worthy to enter the gates of heaven. A person must first realize they are lost before they can be saved.

I believe that the child of God will continue to put their trust in Jesus as Savior, and will also continue to listen to His voice and follow Him. They may stray or fail from time to time, and they may trip all over their feet as they learn to walk, but they will eventually turn again and follow the Savior. A true child of God will not continue to go their own way or continue to disregard what Jesus would want them to do. They will not survive by their own strength or ability, but by the grace of God. They may sin from time to time, and they may not even understand all that sin is or that sin is not according to the word of God. They may not completely understand the word of God, but the Holy Spirit will convict them and lead them in the proper direction. The child of God is not a child of God by what they know, as much as by whom they know and trust. Those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and from their heart accept Him as both Lord and Savior of their lives, are saved from their sins and born into the family of God. That is the simple plan of God. God is not trying to confuse anybody. He made it so simple that many can’t accept its simplicity, and constantly try to reinvent it. I have been a victim in the past of such reinventions. It doesn’t take rocket science to be a child of God. You don’t’ have to understand the entire word, or even an entire chapter of the bible in order to know enough to be saved. The plan of salvation is so simple that a little child can understand it. All it takes is a person with a willing heart to believe in Jesus and trust Him to be their Savior, and to accept Him as their Lord. God is our creator, and those who trust in Him will be changed, and recreated in the image of Jesus Christ our Savior.

I have gone through much confusion in my life. I have spent hour after hour in the word of God seeking for answers to my many questions. I have on occasions in my past grown frustrated in my endeavor to know the truth and have at times grown impatient and exhausted. I have in at least one point in my past given up on salvation because I thought it was beyond my capability. It is in this confusion and great despair that I sought God the hardest. It is also in that despair that I studied and learned much concerning the word. The Holy Spirit was my teacher, because I could not trust what man would tell me. Man had misled me once. It was only God and His word that I would put my trust in. I sought God in prayer and fasting and used what little faith I had. I held to one verse of scripture and it was in this that I did not give up. Seek and ye shall find. In my seeking I found, and it was the Holy Spirit that revealed the truth to me. I have grown to know that God is real through my struggles, because He has so graciously intervened in my life. I’m so grateful that He is a God that is faithful and merciful. God has revealed His truth to me, but first He had to bring me to trust Him that He is the Savior and not I. God still has much work to do in me, and I still am learning and growing. But it is good to know that he doesn’t require me to know it all, or to even be deserving of His grace. The grace and mercy of God leads the sinner to repentance, and it draws the child of God closer to His heart. The blood of Jesus cleanses and makes me whole. It is Jesus that both saves and who keeps me. My works cannot save me, but it is expected of me to serve my Father in heaven as His child. However, after I have done all that is reasonably expected of me, I still cannot say that I deserve or earn a thing. Salvation remains a gift that cannot be earned or deserved. What I do for Christ is simply my reasonable duty as a child of God. No matter what a person is asked to do or give of himself or herself for God, they can never out give Him. How can we earn or deserve the death of Jesus Christ?

No denomination has all the answers or has the only handle on salvation. Jesus is the answer. Jesus is the way. Those who trust Him completely for their salvation will be willing to follow Him as their Lord. Those who are not willing to accept Jesus as Lord have never known Him as Savior. The more you trust Him, the less you fear, and the greater is your peace. If you are willing to accept Jesus as Savior and Lord, then He is more than willing to receive you as His child. That is what He died for. There is nothing more important to Him than for you to become His child. There is nothing more precious to Him than His children. If you have a child, then you should know what you mean to Him.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_: Whether or not there actually are creatures that evolve is still up for debate among scientists


Respectfully, Joy, that is just not true. Some fine details of evolution are hotly debated (that's what science is all about!) but, unless God is playing some kind of big joke on us by planting all the evidence, it is an absolute fact that every living thing alive today evolved form an earlier life form due to the processes of natural selection and random mutation and, yes, man evolved from an earlier life form that resembled an ape.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
Gofish, I think what4 meant that the evolution part is what he dis-agree's with. Most Christian's don't believe in Evolution. They can't and believe in God.


Believe me, I know exactly what he means. I've dealt with the likes of him for years.

Which is the cusp of the matter: The overwhelming, utterly convincing, indisputable evidence is that evolution happened almost exactly the way Charles Darwin first theorized 150 years ago.

A rational human simply cannot dispute evolution as fact any more than they can dispute the nature of gravity.

More and more people are realizing that fact and are either adjusting some of the basic tenets of their faith (that Adam & Eve and Noah's Ark are fables) or giving up on the God of Abraham altogether.

According to WhatFor, "true" Christians have only one choice: Denounce your faith or denounce science.
quote:
Originally posted by what4:
understand that Jesus gave His life on the cross as payment in full for your sins.


I spent a lifetime trying to understand the logic in that. I gave up. How did some guy dying 2007 years ago "pay" for the sin I commit?

What about people to died before Jesus were born; Did everyone go straight to hell?

quote:
You should also believe that Jesus rose again.


Besides him appearing to Mary afterwards, there's not much mention of Jesus' life after he was raised form the dead. What happened? Did he get married, have a family? Retire (I can't blame him)? Why do you think there is absolutely no mention of such an important historical figure after he died?
This, on the surface, appears to be an innocent enough query about the definition of a religion. However the original poster has, in the past of course, been known to start a flame with these inocuous queries. The poor moths come charging in and POOF! they are flamed.

I think that PBA equates Christian and conservative as being the same. If I am wrong accept MHOpologies.
quote:
Originally posted by Quarrles:
This, on the surface, appears to be an innocent enough query about the definition of a religion. However the original poster has, in the past of course, been known to start a flame with these inocuous queries. The poor moths come charging in and POOF! they are flamed.

I think that PBA equates Christian and conservative as being the same. If I am wrong accept MHOpologies.



Quarrles.Most Christian people think of themselves as conservative christian. You don't have to be a christian to be a conservative or you do not have to be a conservative to be a christian.
The born-again Christian needs and desires the PURE SPIRITUAL MILK-1 Pe 2:2 NIV, that is not watered-down with other things. It is not man, but the Holy Spirit that opens a person’s heart to understand. So few seem to realize this. It is a church age where God’s Word is proclaiming, PREACH THE WORD-2 Tim 4:2. Jesus (the Word) is outside the church knocking, yet who has ears to hear?
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
PBA, I generally do not believe in spiritual osmosis, are you now carrying the WORD? Well slap me and call me silly.


Would you please quit spaming the board with your attacks on PBA...




I am not spaming the board with attacks by no means.I just put my 2 cents in like you do.If you don't like my 2 cents then thats ok too. You don't own the board. Its free speech for all.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
At present the god of this world is Satan. You can see what kind of mess your god is making. Evolution is a lie, and those who put their trust in it are trusting in the father of lies.


god of world = satan. A = B

"your" god = mess. B = C

Evolution = lie, aka a mess. C = C


A = B = C. Elementary logic, notwithstanding all those points were in one paragraph, one thought.

Gofish does not believe in, much less worship, Satan. neither do I. he's a fiction, a metaphor for the cruddy things that are a part of nature. He may be the god of your world, I don't truck with gods. I prefer the single candle in the darkness of superstition that is the truth, demonstrable truth, evidential truth.
quote:
Don’t assume that an atheist that has no regard for morality and truth is going to properly represent me.
How dare you? How dare you assume that you, and you alone, are endowed with morals and truth? What unmitigated chutzpah. That statement is one of the most uninformed things I have heard you say, and that's saying a lot.

DF



DF, your belief or disbelief of God, Satan or Science is your right, and that is something I try to help everyone protect is THEIR RIGHTS.

I admire your wisdom on so many of your posts, and I DO listen to you. I may not always agree with you, but I respect your opinions and beliefs.

But can I add one little tidbit here??? Please don't feed them, LOL!!!!

Shhhhhhhh, and maybe these super-duper LONG postings that puts Vick to sleep will stop, lol.

Just kidding with ya, but I still say as I said a few pages back, IF BILL AND WHAT4 are making any good points, I am MISSING them, because I just don't have time to read books on here, ya know? Big Grin

And, bluefish, good points from you too about the long postings, that should be PRIVATE and only when ASKED for.
To Kindred:

Are you a Christian? If so, then what makes you one? Do you believe in evolution?

Do you believe that those who have pet rocks can wait long enough and watch them eventually come to life? That's what GoFish and DeepFat believe. They say I'm a fool for not accepting the fact that we originated from an accidental chemical explosion. GoFish believes since I don't believe in evolution, then I consider science a work of the devil. What do you think?

Now answer all of these things in a short post if you can.
quote:
Originally posted by what4:
To Kindred:

Are you a Christian? If so, then what makes you one? Do you believe in evolution?

Do you believe that those who have pet rocks can wait long enough and watch them eventually come to life? That's what GoFish and DeepFat believe. They say I'm a fool for not accepting the fact that we originated from an accidental chemical explosion. GoFish believes since I don't believe in evolution, then I consider science a work of the devil. What do you think?

Now answer all of these things in a short post if you can.



What4, if you had of stopped typing long enough and got off your own ego you would NOT have had to ask that question, you would have already KNOWN it. Everyone else here on this forum knows me and pretty much HOW I believe.

HOMEWORK, check back on my posts and find the answer to that if it is important for you and you are the Christian YOU claim to be, otherwise, ignore this reply Wink

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