Skip to main content

Hi to all my Forum Friends,

Best to cut the head off the snake right away. So, I will post this before our non-believing Friends have a chance to wrap it in their anti-Christian rhetoric. This man, Terry Jones, of Dove World Outreach Center, Gainesville, Florida -- is the bookend counterpart to Fred Phelps of Kansas.

According to the ABC News web site: "Jones' plan to set ablaze thousands of copies of the Muslim holy book on Sept. 11, a day he's dubbed International Burn a Koran Day, has become a flashpoint. What has been seen for weeks as a strange front in the culture wars, this weekend became a front in America's real war, with Gen. David Patraeus weighing in to say he believed the display would be detrimental and dangerous to U.S. troops fighting in Afghanistan."

What he is doing is not only dumb; but, it is also very dangerous. No matter how much we disagree with any of the world religions -- we do not burn the book the consider to be holy in their religion. This man needs to be arrested and prosecuted as a national security threat. The end result of this insult to all Muslims can only be to intensify Radical Islamist Terrorist activity -- and to take more military and innocent civilian lives.

By the way, the Islamic holy book is properly called the Qur'an, not Koran. That is the way it is spelled on my Qur'an which is distributed by the Islamic organization CAIR.

As I have often said, when I hear or read about a ministry which is new to me -- the first thing I do is to go to their web site and look at their Doctrinal Beliefs. This church ministry, Dove World Outreach Center of Gainesville, Florida, does not have any beliefs posted. In lieu of Biblical Doctrines, they post videos of Mel Gibson's movie Braveheart.

This church shows no affiliation. So, we must assume them to be non-denominational. From what I do see on their web site, this church is part of the Five-Fold Pentecostal Ministry (Kingdom Now) -- and is not typical of all Pentecostal churches. So, our non-believing Friends cannot paint all Pentecostals, all Evangelicals, and all Conservative Christians with the same broad, lame paint brush.

Below is a good description of the Five-Fold Ministry churches, written by Dr. Robert Bowman, Jr. of Apologetics Index Ministry:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THE FAULTY FOUNDATION OF THE FIVE-FOLD MINISTRY
by Robert Bowman, Apologetics Index Ministry
ttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/f09.html

It has recently become popular to speak of "the five-fold ministry," a system of church government with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The neo-Pentecostal "Restoration" movement and its offshoot, "kingdom now" teaching, claims that one of the things which God is "restoring" to the church is this five-fold ministry.

The sole proof text used to support this concept is Ephesians 4:11-13 , which states that Christ gave "some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,...until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the full knowledge of the Son of God."

The word "until," it is argued, proves that the church today needs apostles and prophets as much as evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, it is the "building up" of the church (v.12) which must continue until the church is mature, not all five of the offices listed in verse 11.
This is clear when the whole text is read as follows: "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers; [these offices were given] to equip the saints for the work of service, [which work has as its goal] to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith..." The offices of apostle and prophet would naturally cease in the church once their role in "equipping the saints" was completed; that is, once the New Testament canon was completed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Once again, this is solid proof that no person or church can take one or two Scripture verses or passages -- and build a theology upon them. A Christian theology MUST be built upon the entire Bible, God's full written message and revelation to mankind. Any time someone tries to build a theology upon selected Scripture passages -- it will never be a full Christian theology; but, instead an aberration of, or deviation from, true Christian theology.

And, the extremes of creating such a theology from just a few selected verses or passages are the likes of this Terry Jones and his Dove World Outreach Center of Gainesville, Florida -- and Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.

Every group within our society has its extremists who blacken the name and the work of those within that societal group. And Christianity is no different. Christianity is made up of normal, flawed human Christian believers -- and once in a while some of the apples in the bushel do tend to spoil and become rancid. Yet, no one in their right mind would throw away or condemn the whole bushel of apples because one or two have begun to show signs of decay.

So, to my Christian Friends, pray that whatever common sense is left in this Dove World Outreach Center church will come to the forefront and prevent this drastic, detrimental action. And, to our non-believing Friends -- since you do not pray, cross your fingers that God hears our prayers and puts a stop to this foolishness before it causes more deaths and destruction.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

While I agree with Bill that a massive burning of books in general, and specifically in this case, is a bad idea, in poor taste, and just downright loony, I don't agree that the guy should be arrested.

Burning books, effigies, flags, crosses or whatever - as long as you do it in your own yard, and abide by local fire codes - is a form of speech and is in my opinion protected by the Constitution.

As for punishing the guy, I am pretty sure the Taliban or some other Islamic group will put a price on his head. He's just asking for trouble.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Than you Bill.
It is a very stupid, very intolerant attitude for a Christian to have.
I can't believe he intends to go ahead even after General Petraeus said it could backfire on the troops.


The General should realize that these people are not going to "cozy up" to us and show us a little love...their mission in life is to kill us. They were burning our flag last week...burn their book. Terry Jones serves a jealous GOD and God sais,"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". Allah and Mohammed mean nothing to Christians except threat and danger.
If I had his address I would buy him a Bic lighter and a gallon of gas.
here's the thing... the real bottom line.

if they made a huge pile of christian bibles and tossed in a match, we'd complain. some of our state dept peple would send letters. there would be a few boycots. the pope would make a speech.

and a couple months later, no one would really even care anymore. they had the protest.. we voiced out objection.. end of story.

this isn't going to work that way. people WILL be killed because of this smegheads actions. there are already ARMED people gearing up to retaliate.
they don't work by saying ' that is horrible. someone should stop that kind of thing."
they solve matters by firing rockets and guns and throwing bombs.

check the news on this issue from jakarta. it is going to get UGLY there.

my wifes parents are, as we speak, overseas in a country that is 90% muslim, 6% maoist, 2% christian and 2% uninterested.

there is a real real possibility that this Dbag preacher's actions will get my in laws killed. really truly killed. when he tosses the match it WILL become Open Christian Season in many parts of the world for a little while.. it's just going to be a matter of timing and luck whether there are any christians to be found in places by people willing to pull the trigger.


this man IS a grave danger to innocent people in this country and all around the world. an islamic radical will watch an american christian burn their book, and then go and kill a 10 year old spanish christian, and call it retribution. they don't HAVE to hurt the people directly involved in the book burning to feel like they've won, they'll be happy in blowing up a non-muslim school in london, or indonesia, or india, or pretty much any place. it won't even have to be christian, really, just not muslim, and they'll call it a win and a stab at the arrogant american infidels.

he shouldn't be arrested. he should be captured, and given to the terrorists, and called a 'specal christian envoy' and let him explain his plan to them face to face.
better to kill him now, than let him be the cause of doezens, possibly thousands of innocent lives lost tomorrow. (ok.. day after the day after tomorrow)
To me this is just another example of those that mix their personal religious beliefs with their politics. Just as thenagel said other countries (such as Iran, Afghanistan) do it all the time. We are used to it. They believe that if you have a beef with their policies then you have a beef with their religion. Which are usually one in the same.

This dumba55 in Florida is no better than the intolerant nuts he is antagonizing with this none sense. He believes his god is better than their god and he is willing to put human lives on the line to prove it.

That is why I, and many others fight against religion mixing with our government. I am not against your beliefs, I would stand beside you and fight for your right to worship your god. I am against this country being turned into a church state. For my level headed christian friends out there this is not pointed at you. For the rest please wake up and realize that if you were to get your way, we would be no better as a country than Iran.
"International Burn a Koran Day" has been cancelled..


"Terry Jones, pastor of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, has canceled "International Burn a Koran Day." This came hours after President Barack Obama came out with his strongest comment yet on Rev. Jones' intent to stage a Quran burning on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Jones' claimed his cancellation was because an Orlando-area imam persuaded Imam Rauf of Park51, the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque," to move the Islamic community center project farther away from the former World Trade Center site, according to the Washington Post. This has since been denied.



FULL ARTICLE

http://news.gather.com/viewArt...leId=281474978507742
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
To me this is just another example of those that mix their personal religious beliefs with their politics. Just as thenagel said other countries (such as Iran, Afghanistan) do it all the time. We are used to it. They believe that if you have a beef with their policies then you have a beef with their religion. Which are usually one in the same.

This dumba55 in Florida is no better than the intolerant nuts he is antagonizing with this none sense. He believes his god is better than their god and he is willing to put human lives on the line to prove it.

That is why I, and many others fight against religion mixing with our government. I am not against your beliefs, I would stand beside you and fight for your right to worship your god. I am against this country being turned into a church state. For my level headed christian friends out there this is not pointed at you. For the rest please wake up and realize that if you were to get your way, we would be no better as a country than Iran.


no worries Jank.. i know you didn't mean me, because i'd be standing right beside you fighting for the exact same thing...
my right to worship as i please, and to keep religion out of school and the government.

' in god we trust.' so what.
'one nation, under god'. big deal.

two lines that don't affect policy in any way.

when people start trying to use the bible to enforce the way the government works is the day *I* pull out the protest sign.
theocracy never works for anyone except the top 2 or 3 people.
i'd rather avoid going back to the days of the spanish inquisition, who's chief weapon is surprise; surprise and.. look, i'll come in again...
WAH....Wah.......wah....

Ok this bit of ignorance might be the first time in my whole life that I would condone violence against someone exercising their rights!

If one American dies as a result of this, he better be held responsible.

Are there any laws that would apply to that? Law is not my thing. Does anyone here know?
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
Jank what if it were Bibles being burned?


I wouldn't care either way if it were not for the added danger it will put on our soliders and citizens a broad. Who knows even here.

But you know I looked down deep inside after my last post and gave this some serious thought. If we take any steps to trample on these nuts (hehe) rights then basically we are giving in to terrorist.

Live free or die.
Leave it to Gray to put this imbecile's name in the public view.

The man in question is a pastor of a nothing, 50-member wack sect. He unilaterally declared "International Burn a Quran Day".

And the press bought it!

Hell, I have 50 friends here. Shall I declare "International Moon Bill Gray Day"?

Who would pay any attention to me? And why are they making this mustached imbecile in international celebrity?

Homespun PR to the nth degree. My hat's off to the bloke.

Oh, sure, I hate the effects of his public Quran burning. I hate that it will cost American lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. I hate that it will set back American-Islam relations just that much more, but the man is a self-aggrandizing little weasel of outstanding proportions! He's a phenom, the SOB.

He's willing to sacrifice American military lives, American civilian lives, international relations, diplomacy, etc. just so he can display his hatred and bigotry in the most inflammatory [pun intended] fashion.

Like all Fundies, he has no shame, no sense of perspective, and no chance of redemption*.

One other thing. Imagine 30 years ago. Someone burns a Quran. You might ask if they lit a joint with it.

Oh, but now we're super sensitive because we might offend violent people. Just a thought.


nsns


*As if there was any redemption to be had. You know what I'm saying.
To Bill Gray (at great risk, pistol at the ready)


( Y )


OK, now will someone alert the national media?

I want to be famous like that mustacioed retard in Florida, and for similar reasons. I have no worldwide standing as a spokeshole for any point of view, but in my outrageous presumption, I demand recognition!

I only want one thing.

I only want for every Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, and Shintoist to....

Send A Dollar To NSNS.

For the orphans.


nsns
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
The man in question is a pastor of a nothing, 50-member wack sect. He unilaterally declared "International Burn a Quran Day".[QUOTE]

He gets one vote just like you do. You are no better than this man, you just have a different opinion. The preacher has the same rights and freedoms that you have. These people, Muslims, like to cut off heads with swords, stone their own women or mutilate them. If I had a copy of this book I would burn it...it is ink and paper, NOTHING sacred about ink and paper.

In case you haven't noticed, these people are hell bent on killing us and burning their book will not "enable" them to turn it up a notch. This nation is drowning in political correctness (evidence the OBAMA apology tour). Islam/Muslims continue to demand tolerance of us while they have no accomodation for Americans or Christianity...maybe that's because Obama told them America was a Muslim nation.
Last edited by SHELDIVR

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×