Skip to main content

American Farmers Moving To Mexico As Illegals Forced To Leave
February 23, 2008 Sean Wilson--
Cheap labor barons have been hurt by the lack of cheap labor in the form of illegal aliens. In fact, some have been hurt so much that they are moving their businesses. Where else would they move them, but Mexico?
Farmers Would Rather Move Farming To Mexico Than Pay Americans Better Wages—The Lie Is Exposed
Some American farmers are moving south of the border, renting and leasing large parcels of land to farm. That’s right, these farmers simply do not want to pay better wages to Americans.
The whole lie that Americans won’t do the work that illegals aliens do is just that—a lie. We are starting to see the truth come to light. People who have been hiring illegal aliens would rather take their businesses to Mexico than pay American workers wages consistent with the standard of living in America.
These farmers still argue that Americans don’t want farm jobs. That’s another lie. The media is always quick to attempt frightening Americans with tales of impending economic doom that will result if we stop illegal immigration. There are plenty of Americans who will do farm work—just not for the wages that farmers pay illegal aliens. That is basic economics.
Why do you think we have tens of thousands of legal immigrants from Mexico and India each year while just a bit over 2000 from Ireland for example? Do cheap labor barons want more immigrants from nations that have the highest standard of living in Europe and that will expect decent wages, or do they want those immigrants from nations that have large populations that will work for low wages? That, too, is economics—just not what they love to point out in your college economics classes.



Cheap labor is at the center of this issue on the one hand. On the other, it is about greedy people who would rather move their business overseas than pay wages more in line with a nation that has a higher standard of living. Just because it involves agriculture does not mean that wages should not increase as in other sectors. If a nation’s standard of living increases to the point that no one wants to do a particular kind of labor for the wages paid to perform that job, either wages must go up or you must find a way to lower production and labor costs—or you go out of business.
Most people will say that they are only doing what is smart from a business standpoint and moving a business out of the USA as other companies have done. This is true and that is also basic economics. It is also true that they are creating vulnerabilities in the American economy and our national security by their doing so, and that is called your basic greed. The problem with all outsourcing is that it creates vulnerabilities outside the control of the enchesty doing the outsourcing.

http://errantmind.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/farmers-movi...llegal-aliens-leave/
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Isn't the real questionm why didn't Mexicans do this in the firsrt place. Surely, the haciendados had the funds to finance such operations -- and the land.

Mexico does have a growing middle class. Why didn't they form coops to grow the crops?

I suspect the bribes and such the US farmers will pay will severely decrease their profit margins.
They are losing their farms due to NAFTA and free trade which is allowing the US to dump products in Mexico and other countries that are subsidized by the US government. US products like wheat and corn and others sell for less then what the local farmers can sell their home grown products and they go bankrupt.

Agribusiness then buys up the land and pays sweatshop wages to this who have no jobs and are starving. That's why many are coming North because the wages are still better in the US then Mexico. This gives Corporations control of the food supply and they also sell off some of the land for development, making farm land scarcer.

It's happening throughout Latin America and Africa. First they screwed the American Family Framer and now they are going after the world's food supply.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTotalTruth:
We have plenty of farmers,,,, govt has just paid them for many years to not farm!.... now everything on the produce shelf comes from Mexico and everything on Walmarts shelf comes from Korea or China......... something is not right..........



This is true and you would think folks would wake up to this already. Here in Alabama, I know for a fact that they have in the past, worked illegal aliens.
Pogo,

"They are losing their farms due to NAFTA and free trade which is allowing the US to dump products in Mexico and other countries that are subsidized by the US government. US products like wheat and corn and others sell for less then what the local farmers can sell their home grown products and they go bankrupt."

Mexico imports US corn only when their own crop falls short. For the last two years US corn has not been cheap. Demonstrations and complaints occur regularly concerning the cost of tortillas.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Agribusiness then buys up the land and pays sweatshop wages to this who have no jobs and are starving. That's why many are coming North because the wages are still better in the US then Mexico. This gives Corporations control of the food supply and they also sell off some of the land for development, making farm land scarcer."

Mexico, while poor, is not suffering from starvation. Wages are historically low, but much higher than wages in central America. Mexico maintains a fence and strict security barriers on her southern border. JJP's post stated the land was leased, not bought. One can not sell leased land. Mexico does not allow foreigners to buy significant amounts of land. Enough for a house, perhaps, but not a farm.

"Typically, the left's train of thought leaves the station without connecting the freight cars."
The price of food is rising everywhere for a number of reasons. The US dumps subsidized products in Mexico and elsewhere that puts local farmers out of business. That's why they are coming here. I believe corn is one of the products as I remember reading a quote by a Mexican that Maze basically came to the US from Native Americans and Mexico and now it is being imported.

Buy or lease land the principle is the same, Like in America the small local family farmers are put out of business and the farm taken over by Agribusiness and hire workers at something like 60 cents an hour. They also open sweatshops.

Funny how you never seem to really understand the point of posts butu are quick to use insults. As I keep repeating, try concentrating on the posts, it will help for better discussions.
Pogo,

"The price of food is rising everywhere for a number of reasons. The US dumps subsidized products in Mexico and elsewhere that puts local farmers out of business. That's why they are coming here. I believe corn is one of the products as I remember reading a quote by a Mexican that Maze basically came to the US from Native Americans and Mexico and now it is being imported."

Have you totally missed the news for the last two years? There is no cheap US corn Its going for ethanol or at a premium price because of worldwide shortages. The Mexican government allows US corn in only when their own crops are insufficient. US corn stopped being cheap two years ago. Yes, corn/maize is a New World crop. We learned that in third grade. Where were you -- at Komsomol youth meeting?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Buy or lease land the principle is the same, Like in America the small local family farmers are put out of business and the farm taken over by Agribusiness and hire workers at something like 60 cents an hour. They also open sweatshops."

In your previous post, you stated the agribusiness might sell the land. One may not sell leased land. Quite ignoring your own posts.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Funny how you never seem to really understand the point of posts butu are quick to use insults. As I keep repeating, try concentrating on the posts, it will help for better discussions"

Not only do I understand your posts, but address them point-by-point. You're only upset that I and others do not agree with your posts.
Oh Howard, it scares me when you say you work in the government, no wonder we are in such "Deep Do Do."

This has been going on for quite some time. NAFTA passed in 1993, the farmers have been losing their farms for years and coming here for jobs. The quote by the Mexican Farmers on corn is accurate.

As far as selling land agribusiness has been doing that here since the 1980's when they targeted the family farmers. I have read that there has been development programs in Mexico including more factories. I have read that some of this has been done with farmland but to what extent I don't know and who was behind it I am not sure

I know that we have been dumping products down there cheaper then their local farmers can grow it because it is subsidized here. It has also happened in Africa and it was one of the reasons South Korean Unions were against Free Trade Agreements with the US, they know the same will happen there. I believe there main concern was beef.

These trade agreements benefit the Corporate Class at the expense of the middle and lower classes.
The hysteria over moving farms to Mexico is a chess play. The fields of the San Joaquin Valley and the plains of Kansas will be plowed for the indefinite future.

This ploy is being made by the big corporate farmers who have labor-intensive crops, like grapes and lettuce.

This is not an issue of farm labor, it's an issue of illegal immigration. The corporate farmers favor illegal immigration because it benefits THEM, to the disadvantage of the rest of us who must educate, medicate, and incarcerate the other illegals. It pencils out for them.

I am surprised to find Pogo on the side of corporate farmers whose narrow interests are in contrast to American society in general.

For the record, I have no problem with migrant labor, as long as they are registered, pay some taxes, and do not assume their presence here equals citizenship.

DF
I am not siding with the Corporate Farmers, they are the ones that are dumping products that put Framers in Mexico and other countries into bankruptcy. They are the ones that favor Corporate Globalization. The cheap labor is part of it as is when US businesses, like Ford or GM, close a plant in Detroit and open it in Mexico at a third of the wages. Or manufacturing jobs that create sweatshop labor. In Mexico these Corporate Farms pay 60 cents an hour.

The Right Wing Conservative Media is blaming the immigrants when they, like the American worker, are by product of Corporate Globalization as a whole. They want to drive these immigrants down even further with fear to keep them from organizing for better wages and conditions.

People who know my posts over the last year know I believe we need international unions to protect workers every where. We are all in the same boat.
quote:
I am not siding with the Corporate Farmers

Yes, you are.

You are siding with all the businesses that hire illegal aliens for cheap wages to the disadvantage of the rest of us. Those corporations who hire illegals instead of citizens are getting phat, while the rest of us pay for them and their kids in schools, hospitals, and prisons.

You want unions? Make labor profitable again. Return to the state where construction, meat packing, agriculture, and so many other industries need labor to the point where labor unions are possible. As it stands now, there in an infinite amount of illegal labor competing for the lowest wages for those jobs. If you think international unionization can happen before labor is in short demand, then you're smoking something, and you are not sharing.

DF
Pogo,
“This has been going on for quite some time. NAFTA passed in 1993, the farmers have been losing their farms for years and coming here for jobs. The quote by the Mexican Farmers on corn is accurate.

As far as selling land agribusiness has been doing that here since the 1980's when they targeted the family farmers. I have read that there has been development programs in Mexico including more factories. I have read that some of this has been done with farmland but to what extent I don't know and who was behind it I am not sure

I know that we have been dumping products down there cheaper then their local farmers can grow it because it is subsidized here. It has also happened in Africa and it was one of the reasons South Korean Unions were against Free Trade Agreements with the US, they know the same will happen there. I believe there main concern was beef.”

I begin to see the root of your problem. Besides a leftist upbringing and orientation, you read articles, but do not accurate retain the substance or dates of the articles.

As you may see from the chart, US corn prices have increased by 60 percent. There is no cheap corn. Decreased US production is partially to blame. US production dropped from 11,807 million bushels in 2005 to 10,535 million bushels in 2007.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-01-24-corn_x.htm

The factories you speak of are called maquiladoras. They are built at the border, usually on marginal land. Maquiladoras have been around for about 30 years. Workers make about $2.30 an hour. Small wages for the US, but good for a country where the average daily wage is $5.00 per day.

These factories are a key economic factor for Mexico and keep more of their workers in Mexico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquiladora

As to Africa, you are correct to a degree, but have the wrong culprit. The EU has dumped their subsidized agricultural products for decades in Africa.
Pogo,
“This has been going on for quite some time. NAFTA passed in 1993, the farmers have been losing their farms for years and coming here for jobs. The quote by the Mexican Farmers on corn is accurate.

As far as selling land agribusiness has been doing that here since the 1980's when they targeted the family farmers. I have read that there has been development programs in Mexico including more factories. I have read that some of this has been done with farmland but to what extent I don't know and who was behind it I am not sure

I know that we have been dumping products down there cheaper then their local farmers can grow it because it is subsidized here. It has also happened in Africa and it was one of the reasons South Korean Unions were against Free Trade Agreements with the US, they know the same will happen there. I believe there main concern was beef.”


I begin to see the root of your problem. Besides a leftist upbringing and orientation, you read articles, but do not accurate retain the substance or dates of the articles.

As you may see from the chart, US corn prices have increased by 60 percent. There is no cheap corn. Decreased US production is partially to blame. US production dropped from 11,807 million bushels in 2005 to 10,535 million bushels in 2007.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-01-24-corn_x.htm

The factories you speak of are called maquiladoras. They are built at the border, usually on marginal land. Maquiladoras have been around for about 30 years. Workers make about $2.30 an hour. Small wages for the US, but good for a country where the average daily wage is $5.00 per day.

These factories are a key economic factor for Mexico and keep more of their workers in Mexico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquiladora

As to Africa, you are correct to a degree, but have the wrong culprit. The EU has dumped their subsidized agricultural products for decades in Africa.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • corn_prices_2007
DF,

I support the immigrants because they are not the root of the Problem. The problem is Corporate Globalization's trade policies and corporate practices. They close factories in the US, lower trade barriers and open factories in poor countries that pay low wages. That's why the workers are coming here. Our government supports polices and trade that are lopsided toward Corporations and screw workers. Workers around the world need to organize to effectively protect their rights against the practices of Corporate Globalization.

The article you posted Howard is about corn prices now and since 2000. The article states the prices are the highest in ten years. The process over converting corn to ethanol is recent. The farmers have been losing the farms since the 90's when the price of corn was lower. Now agribusiness is tasking the farms.

Corn is only one product. it's the policies of dumping subsidized products in other countries that force that country's businesses to collapse. It is also occuring in Africa and were ever then can. South Korea is another country and now Peru. It is to set up sweatshop jobs and with what they call "Free Trade" send it back here for largwe profits. One of the reasons Corporate profits are soaring while American workers are losing their jobs and struggling to keep up.

I am familiar with the Maquiladoras, but ( I had trouble spelling it off the top of my head) That is only one area that was set up close to the border specifically for NAFTA. In this region US Corporations have taken US Factories and Multinational Corporations have set up businesses to take advantage of low wages. The people struggle to survive on these wages which is why they are coming to the US.

The Farm areas are also out the Maquiladoras. I believe Vera Cruz is a farm area but I may be mistaken.

There is development in other regions.

You can double talk around it all you want, which the Corproate Media do well in but the average American now sees it for themsleves and it's one of the reasons they are turing away from the Conservatives. They serve the Corporate Class.
“I support the immigrants because they are not the root of the Problem. The problem is Corporate Globalization's trade policies and corporate practices. They close factories in the US, lower trade barriers and open factories in poor countries that pay low wages. That's why the workers are coming here. Our government supports polices and trade that are lopsided toward Corporations and screw workers. Workers around the world need to organize to effectively protect their rights against the practices of Corporate Globalization.”

Pogo,

I would say you statement draws an erroneous conclusion, at the least! You state that because factories in the US are closing, and opening in poor companies, all the while paying poor wages, the immigrants must come to the US.

If you had even bothered to read the my post, you would see the workers in the maquiladoras are paid about $2.30 an hour in a country where the wage is $5.00 A DAY. The maquiladora workers make about 370 percent more than the average worker.

The immigrants are coming to the US because they DIDN’T GET A JOB in the maquiladoras!
I did read your post Howard and it is not accurate. I have read and heard Labor activists, both US and Mexican expose this as a lie. This is one area and some are decent but not good but many are low pay and most workers put up with abusive treatment, sweatshop conditions and low pay. The propaganda you will probably produce will say how wonderful it is but it's not true. For some of the workers wages are a bit better then the poor, that's the 60 cents an hour worker on the farms that were once Mexican farms but the others are little more then sweatshops.

Most of the manufacturing jobs are sweatshop. Michael Moore did a good program on ithe Maquiladoras region when he had his TV show in the 1990's and he showed all the propaganda then went out to the workers and interviewed them, the ones he was allopwed to, and showed how poor they lived and the conditions behind the spin. They had shack type houses that looked decent from the outside but they didn't even have electricity. That was the Maquiladoras region.

Charlie Krenigan is another labor activist that went there and other places. ( I may have Misspelled his name as I have heard him on Democracy Now and have read a few articles by him but don't have access to his name at the moment)

The Maquiladoras region is only one region, these sweatshops are all across Latin America, South East Asia and China. Many of those booming industries in China are America factories that moved there to increase their profits. But even in the Maquiladoras there is low pay and abusive treatment toward the workers. Over worked, little breaks, long hours. You can lose your job for the slightest reason.

Many immigrants come here because of this treatment or there are not many jobs in Mexico.
Some come here becasue they did't get to work there but it is not the paradise you describe. And it has been at the expense of the American worker. It's only to increase profits the "Corporate Class."

The immigrant is not the problem and they are scapegoated as a diversion from Corporate Greed. First they blamed the unions and now it's the immigrants. It's the greed of the Corporate Class.
quote:
It's the greed of the Corporate Class.

I could not agree more. People in this country have to wake up. The trade laws are written by the corporate criminal for the corporate criminal. There is a reason our laws favor the wealthy.

The American dream is fast disappearing and the mega-international-corporation is replacing it. They have loyalty to no flag or country, only where big money is to be made.
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
I. Michael Moore did a good program on ithe Maquiladoras region when he had his TV show in the 1990's and he showed all the propaganda then went out to the workers and interviewed them, the ones he was allopwed to, and showed how poor they lived and the conditions behind the spin.


Yeah, I believe everything that fine piece of journalistic integrety says... Roll Eyes....I have been down to that region and they do live in squalor. Whose fault is it? Their own governemnt who refuses to build any type of decent infrastructure for the huge numbers of people who live in those regions. In most places it is impossible to even flush toilet tissue due to the small caliber of the plumbing pipes, for those areas that even have plumbing.
Most of those people are extremely happy to earn the money they get there, it is a step up for them.
And I can see where the farmers are coming from as well. We have people complaining about the prices of food, and "you " say there are plenty of people to work, but the farmers cnnot afford to pay $8 an hour for high school graduates to pick strawberries, and spend 15 mintues of every hour smoking a cigarette and running their mouths like some do.
I have to echo DF's comment, I do not have aproblem with immigrant workers, if they pay into the system and help pay for the amentities they enjoy while being here. In order for them to do that, they will have to be paid more however, which is what the cooporate farmers do not want to do. It is a catch-22 where non one is going to be happy with the final results.
The region is slightly better, for some, but abuse, overworked and mistreated also come with that slightly "better pay." It is no workers paradise. I have always found Moore to be sincere and honest in his efforts to bring the truth to the American people. What he reported and I said was backed up by other labor activists, American and Mexican.

Mexico is corrupt and the majority of the people poor. I know about the plumbing but those farmers lost their farms due to the trade policies of NAFTA and Corporate Globalization which allowed products that are subsidized by the US into the Mexican market that sell for less then grown in Mexico. It caused the Mexican farmers to go bankrupt and we saw the great increase of immigration to the US as a result. The same has happened in other Latin American countries. It is happening around the world through the policies of the IMF and World Bank which make loans to countries in need after they make these "Structural Adjustments."

Many illegal immigrants do pay into the system. They are here on forged documents. I have gone through this with Nash and interventor and Deep Fat. I have posted articles that stated it and these raids by ICE where they round up any one of Latin decent, these worker have papers and phony social security numbers.

Yes, in a way illegal immigrants are undermining the US worker but they are being scapegoated as a distraction from the greed of the Corporate Class who are screwing the US and Mexican worker. They want the worker to hide in fear and work for low wages.

The solution is, as the saying goes, "Fair Trade, not Free Trade" and we need international unions. If we organized and unionized the immigrants that would lessen the incentive for businesses to rely and exploit them.

The American worker cannot compete against sweatshop labor.
quote:
Many illegal immigrants do pay into the system. They are here on forged documents. I have gone through this with Nash and interventor and Deep Fat. I have posted articles that stated it and these raids by ICE where they round up any one of Latin decent, these worker have papers and phony social security numbers.


What percentage of those rounded up by ICE are illegal aliens compared to legal citizens?

Besides, a legal citizen has nothing to worry about from ICE. Even if they are mistakenly rounded up, as long as they're legal they'll be released.

Think about it. Why would someone who breaks the law by sneaking in to the country, use fake ID's, and use stolen social security numbers suddenly decide to abide by the law and pay taxes? That's totally illogical. It's a fake SS#, what's going happen if you are caught not paying taxes, deportation?

The myth that illegals are paying taxes is simply not true. Other than sales tax, I'd say the percentage of illegals who suddenly chose to follow a law that hits their wallet after breaking quite a few laws to sneak in is very low.

It's a very easy solution. Prosecute those who hire illegals with stiff fines and penalties. People will be so scared to hire illegals, jobs for them will dry up. They'll go right back across and fix their own dam country instead of screwing up ours.
I am not sure of the numbers of illegals that are rounded up but I am not denying they are here. I am saying the many have forged papers and their Social Security Cards are not right either. That's why some in Congress are trying to pass a law that businesses must check Social Security Numbers with the agency. But the Social Security Agency admits that the 3 month time period is sometimes not enough time to verify a number as they will be overwhelmed. They have a difficult time as it is now. Sometimes numbers were legitimate but didn't checkout the first time and other times it couldn't be verified in 3 months and sometimes not even 6.

I am pointing out that many illegals are paying into the system and are not taking advantage of our system. Some are but not all. I have posted articles on it when we had these issues in the past. Many return to Mexico after paying into Social Security and will never collect. It was actually once listed as a reason that SS will stay solvent and continue to pay out.

Legal aliens have been swept up and deported because they do not carry their papers to work and were unable to contact anyone to help. Many are just single males sending money back to their families in Mexico.

Some business are taking advantage of illegals but many have to hire them because they can't compete with Corporate Globalization. More draconic measures are not the answer. To use Conservative arguments adding stiff fines to business and they will only pass the costs on. If they need the workers they will find a way to get them, otherwise they will be out of business. Mostly small businesses.

You can build walls and make the country into a Police State but as long as people are starving and facing hardships they will seek work elsewhere. We need to address the reasons behind the immigration in the first place. Our trade polices are hurting the American worker and the foreign workers while the Corporations profit. That's the problem.
Any taxes the illegals pay are far outweighed by the strain they place on the system.

Few in Mexico are starving, just extremely poor. Its the government of Mexico's fault -- laws and massive corruption that continue their system. Mexico has the natural resources and hard workers to make their nation a success.

Pogo will state the corporate fascists or some such keep them down. Sorry, other nations like Ireland shed their old habits and their economies took off.
Many of the illegals do pay taxes and contribute to the economy. The main reason there is any strain is due to the low wages they receive, just like Americans.

The Mexican Government is corrupt and technically Mexicans may not starve to death in Mexico but when you are poor and don't have enough to eat and are hungry you will do what you need to provide for your family.

I am not saying that there is not a problem with the numbers only that our Trade Policies have added to that migration by displacing farmers, that why the numbers have increased so dramatically since NAFTA. More Draconian efforts will not solve the problem. Not only that the harder we make it to cross back and forth illegally the more likely they are to stay here once they are here.

The people of Mexico did try to vote for cgange in Orbador but elections in Mexico are also notoriously corrupt and Chalderon stole the elections. Or rather the Meixcan Oligarchy stole it to ensure the status quo.

Mexico is not the only country where the working people are suffering from Corporate Globalization, it's happening around the world including right here in the US as we watch our jobs leave and we forced to compete with sweatshop labor.
quote:
Many of the illegals do pay taxes and contribute to the economy. The main reason there is any strain is due to the low wages they receive, just like Americans.


Total bunk. Why would an illegal pay income taxes and social security when he doesn't have to?

Most illegals are paid in cash. Is there a line at the IRS full of illegals paying a portion of their cash into the system? I haven't seen one.

Regardless, whether they are or are not paying into the system, they are still here illegally. They are not eligible for any of our rights, programs, or protections. If they come in legally, the constitution protects them just like it does me. If not, then they are just S.O.L.
I am not insulting your are anything but you are simply speaking from being fed misinformation, deliberately, by your right wing hate racist media "shock jocks" and so called "populists." The facts are otherwise.

These big mouthed "shock jocks" that try to pass themselves off as "journalists" are just the "hired guns" of the Corporate Class trying to confuse you and distract you from the real forces that are exploiting us all.

They pay these taxes because they have forged papers, they do Have To. They estimate there to be something like 13 million illegal immigrants, they are not all paid cash off the books. Some are but many are not. The ones that work in the large processing plants and janitorial jobs and other are all paid on the books. Even farmers have to claim some employees.

They pay into the system but most go back and never collect. I believe it was this year or last year the IRS stated a program where they can pay taxes with no reprisals from ICE.

The government wants the money.

That's also why some in Congress are trying to pass the law to require employers to check SS numbers with the SS Administration.

They pay for two reasons, one, so as not to be caught by IRS by being on the books and not filing and under the last amnesty law those who could prove residency for a number of years were allowed to apply for citizenship. They want to prove residency.

All people have rights and protections, citizens or not.

As I say, I am not supporting illegal immigration and would rather see these people prosper in their own land, many do not want to come here and return.

I do support legal immigration for those who do want to. It's just that targeting the immigrants is not the answer. The American worker is getting screwed also. It's the policies of Corporation Globalization pits workers against each other while profits the Corporate Class.
quote:
I am not insulting your are anything but you are simply speaking from being fed misinformation, deliberately, by your right wing hate racist media "shock jocks" and so called "populists." The facts are otherwise.


I don't listen to "shock jocks" or hate radio. I don't particularly care for Hannity or Limbaugh. There is a local talk show host who is pretty good, I don't agree with everything he says, but I haven't heard any hate from him.

Provide an example of a radio show host making racist comments.

My news information comes mostly from AP, broadcast networks, and cable news. I'm not being fed anything. If anyone is being misinformed, it's you.

Legal immigration is not the problem. It should be welcomed and encouraged. The problem is illegal aliens sneaking into the country. They do not pay income taxes, they do not contribute into the system, yet they use the system to put their kids in school, take food stamps, and free health care by clogging up emergency rooms.

Again, answer these questions. Why would an illegal alien pay taxes if he didn't have to? How would he pay taxes if he is only paid in cash?

Rights and protections are earned. No one gave us the Constitution, many people fought and died so that we could be able to have those rights. Those rights are for American citizens, not just anyone who sneaks into the country.
Right Wing "shock jocks" fill cable news also. They try to pass themselves off as journalists but in reality they are no different then the shock jocks on radio.

I already explained that many illegal immigrants have phony ID's and Social Security numbers and why they do pay into the system.

One of the measures by some members of congress to stop illegal immigration is a bill that requires employers to check SS numbers with the SS Administration. Why would they want that if illegal immigranst don't have phony SS numbers?

The reason you are mistaken is because that's the lies you are being told by your supposedly unbiased media.
quote:
Right Wing "shock jocks" fill cable news also. They try to pass themselves off as journalists but in reality they are no different then the shock jocks on radio.

I already explained that many illegal immigrants have phony ID's and Social Security numbers and why they do pay into the system.


I'll ask again. Provide an example of a radio show host making racist comments.

Also, provide an example of a conservative "shock jock" acting as a news anchor and not hosting a show for entertainment.

Social Security numbers aren't so the illegal can pay taxes, it's so they can get a job. Employers "check" the ID's so that way they can simply pass the blame on to the illegals if they are caught. The illegals pretend to be citizens and the employers pretend to care.

I'm not saying illegals don't have phone SS numbers, they do. They aren't paying taxes with those phony numbers. Why would they?

Provide proof that illegals are paying income taxes with their SS numbers. Show me real evidence.
Radio as well as TV hosts use fear and lies to subtly cover their racism and stir up racism in their listeners.

I would have to check the sites FAIR, Media Matters and some others to find them but every once in a while I get an e-mail from a group, like People for the America Way or somebody, about the lies and straight-out racist statements made by radio and TV journalsist. There is also racism toward Arabs and Muslims.

Illegal Immigranst get the phony SS numbers so they can get a job. The money for Social Security, as you must know, is taken from their pay check. I have provided articles in the past when we have had this discussion but as I say why are they trying to pass a law to require employers to check SS numbers?

There was an article a while ago in the Washington Post that stated the IRS is allowing illegal immigrants to pay taxes with no reprisals from ICE. IRS wanst the money. They pay, but not all, because since there are records of them drawing checks and money going to SS fund they can be caught. Others pay in hopes to use it as proof of residency if there is another amnesty like in the 1980's.

I don't have time to do a search now but it was in the Washington Post.
quote:
Radio as well as TV hosts use fear and lies to subtly cover their racism and stir up racism in their listeners.

I would have to check the sites FAIR, Media Matters and some others to find them but every once in a while I get an e-mail from a group, like People for the America Way or somebody, about the lies and straight-out racist statements made by radio and TV journalist. There is also racism toward Arabs and Muslims.

Illegal Immigrants get the phony SS numbers so they can get a job. The money for Social Security, as you must know, is taken from their pay check. I have provided articles in the past when we have had this discussion but as I say why are they trying to pass a law to require employers to check SS numbers?


Let's try again. Give me an example of a conservative "shock jock" acting as a news anchor and not hosting a show for entertainment as you claim.

Give me an example of a radio show host making racist comments.

Liberal biased sites do not count, I expect unbiased, objective sources. That means you can't use FAIR or Media Matters. Only reputable news sources.

Illegals aren't getting pay checks, almost all are paid in cash. So for illegals to pay social security and income taxes, they would have to mail cash to the federal government. You really believe this is the case?
When your "shock jock" pundits, who try to pass themselves off as journalist, on right wing hate radio and right wing hate TV talk, about issues they talk about news and it is to influence thought and shape opinions. Take your pick, O'Reilly, Hannity Glenn Beck, all the big mouthed wacko bunch. They make racist remarks as well as subtle innuendoes and present one sided opinions that are slanted to place issues out of proportion.

I must admit that to those who are educated on world and domestic affairs it's very funny to hear but hardly entertainment. Actually because it's so serious a problem it's pathetic. Yes, folks, as Fair and Al Franken have shown, "He really does make this stuff up," as do the others.

Fair and Media Matters are very credible organizations and anyone that wants to check their archives will find examples of straight out racist remarks, usually toward Arabs, Muslims and illegal immigrants. Since you doubt the credibility of these groups please supply examples where they misreprented trhe facts or lied.

Although I don't have exact numbers thousands of illegal immigrants do have phony papers and social security numbers and do get taxes taken out of their pay checks. If you studied the issue a little closer then the lies of the right wing "shock jocks" and the headlines you would know that.

As I say anyone interested who has time and wants to now the truth can do a search of the Washington Post to see articles immigrants paying Taxes.

You haven't answered my question. Why are some in congress trying to get a bill passed that will require employers to checkout SS numbers with the administration to stop illegal immigration?
quote:
When your "shock jock" pundits, who try to pass themselves off as journalist, on right wing hate radio and right wing hate TV talk, about issues they talk about news and it is to influence thought and shape opinions. Take your pick, O'Reilly, Hannity Glenn Beck, all the big mouthed wacko bunch. They make racist remarks as well as subtle innuendoes and present one sided opinions that are slanted to place issues out of proportion.


O'Reilly, Hannity, and Glenn Beck are entertainment, not news casters.

Provide one example from any of those three you listed of a racist comment.

Fair and Media Matters are not credible because they are liberal biased. Credible to you, but not to those of us who prefer unbiased, objective sources.

Immigrants pay taxes, no one is questioning that. Illegals don't, that's a fact. There is a huge difference between illegal aliens and legal immigrants.

I'll answer your question as soon as you answer mine. Why are you posting here if you have no ties to the Shoals?

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×