Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
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Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
be patient really focus and it will evolve........hehe
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.
DF
I would love to Fat.
Deep
What part of California are you in??
What part of California are you in??
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
Who says everyone finds sunsets beautiful?
LA, buster.
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.
DF
how does it compare to the sunset over the Tennessee River??
It's a majesty thing. You'll just have to check it out.
DF
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.
DF
I have. I lived in San Jose and worked at Ames.
I also love the Atlantic, probably better. KSC my favorite place to work.
quote:Originally posted by CrustyMac:quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
Who says everyone finds sunsets beautiful?
Uhhhh.... Reread it. It can be anything one finds aesthetically pleasing.
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.
DF
Or in the Keys... fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv#" target="_blank">with trained cats.
quote:Why are sunsets "beautiful"
...the same reason that fruit and vegetables taste good to our taste buds...the same reason every species of plant/animal I can think of come in a variety of colors...the same reason sex is pleasurable...the same reason there is a variety of sounds in nature...the same reason laughter makes us feel great...the same reason things smell good...
...because it was designed with us in mind. Somebody must love us an awful lot.
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:quote:Why are sunsets "beautiful"
...the same reason that fruit and vegetables taste good to our taste buds...the same reason every species of plant/animal I can think of come in a variety of colors...the same reason sex is pleasurable...the same reason there is a variety of sounds in nature...the same reason laughter makes us feel great...the same reason things smell good...
...because it was designed with us in mind. Somebody must love us an awful lot.
I can understand how an organism could evolve to enjoy sex. That is to encourage procreation. Same with food. To encourage nutrition, but why a sunset? Why music etc...
Evolve to "enjoy"? How would that work? Is evolution an entity that foresees the need to procreate & eat healthy as well as possess the power to add pleasure to the mundane?
Obviously "joy" (no pun intended) is a value among the higher animals.
My cats enjoy a tummy rub.
Emotions are useful.
DF
My cats enjoy a tummy rub.
Emotions are useful.
DF
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:quote:Why are sunsets "beautiful"
...the same reason that fruit and vegetables taste good to our taste buds...the same reason every species of plant/animal I can think of come in a variety of colors...the same reason sex is pleasurable...the same reason there is a variety of sounds in nature...the same reason laughter makes us feel great...the same reason things smell good...
...because it was designed with us in mind. Somebody must love us an awful lot.
I can understand how an organism could evolve to enjoy sex. That is to encourage procreation. Same with food. To encourage nutrition, but why a sunset? Why music etc...
Nonsensical. Mushrooms can be quite tasty and deadly. You might as well be asking why do we dislike things we find aesthetically displeasing - which for me, may be the polar opposite to you.
Watch this, it will help you understand evolution a little better: The Purpose of Purpose
Joy, you get a "nice try" on the made for us thing. Remember, Adam was an afterthought. And look around, take off the rose colored glasses, there are plenty of things one can point to and say, "someone must have really hated us".
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.DF
Yes, Deep,
God is truly an amazing, very CREATIVE, artist! And, I agree with you -- from Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, etc. -- His artwork is very inspiring. Now that you mention it -- God is in the inspiration business; first He inspired the Bible; now He inspired us to talk about and admire His creative work.
Wow! What an awesome God!
I can hardly wait to see how beautiful heaven will be -- oh, I'm sorry -- you do not have your reservation booked yet. Well, it is not too late.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by CrustyMac:quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
Who says everyone finds sunsets beautiful?
Hi Crusty,
Well, he forgot to exclude Scrooge. And there are a few more "bah humbug!" types around. But, I would say that very few people do not enjoy a beautiful sunrise or sunset. I have sat on the beaches of Southern California many times watching both. And, I find them very inspiring -- you might say, "Awe inspiring" -- much like their Creator.
Why not, just one time, take off your "bah humbug!" glasses and take a good look? You might be amazed.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.DF
Yes, Deep,
God is truly an amazing, very CREATIVE, artist! And, I agree with you -- from Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, etc. -- His artwork is very inspiring. Now that you mention it -- God is in the inspiration business; first He inspired the Bible; now He inspired us to talk about and admire His creative work.
Wow! What an awesome God!
I can hardly wait to see how beautiful heaven will be -- oh, I'm sorry -- you do not have your reservation booked yet. Well, it is not too late.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
The most beautiful sunset I have ever seen was at newport beach. 2nd most beautiful was at the grand canyon.
quote:Originally posted by CrustyMac:
Nonsensical. Mushrooms can be quite tasty and deadly. You might as well be asking why do we dislike things we find aesthetically displeasing - which for me, may be the polar opposite to you.
Watch this, it will help you understand evolution a little better: The Purpose of Purpose
Joy, you get a "nice try" on the made for us thing. Remember, Adam was an afterthought. And look around, take off the rose colored glasses, there are plenty of things one can point to and say, "someone must have really hated us".
Good Lord, link me anything but one of that man's sermons on the mount. I've sat through 5 minutes and all I've heard so far is his buddies bragging on him and his condemnation of creationists. Blech!
Adam was an afterthought? I must have missed that verse. Care to share it?
The world could have been colorless, tasteless, soundless, unpleasant to the touch and without scent, but it's not. We could have been unable to see, taste, smell, hear and touch, but we are able. THAT is an excellent design.
I'm not the one with rose colored glasses. If I ever had a pair, they were stomped on rather early in my life. I see quite clearly, thank you.
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I look at every one of them like they could be the last one I ever saw. If you can do that and try really hard, you can find beauty in almost anything.
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Obviously "joy" (no pun intended) is a value among the higher animals.
My cats enjoy a tummy rub.
Emotions are useful.
DF
Emotions can be useful I guess, but what intrinsic value does viewing a sunset (over a glass of zinfandel no doubt
) have? I'm surprised it has taken so long to get a good answer from the atheist crowd. I can hear their keyboards a clicking trying to look up some good web site with some type of resourceful answer. What's taking so long. Did Google go down?quote:Originally posted by teyates:
I look at every one of them like they could be the last one I ever saw. If you can do that and try really hard, you can find beauty in almost anything.
well said!
quote:
Emotions can be useful I guess, but what intrinsic value does viewing a sunset (over a glass of zinfandel no doubt ) have?
It's fun and pleasant.
DF
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Emotions can be useful I guess, but what intrinsic value does viewing a sunset (over a glass of zinfandel no doubt
Smooth, you don't have to believe in the supernatural to be thankful, appreciative, graceful, grateful and humble.
Regards
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
Just curious - Since we evolved from some form of hydrocarbon molecule, why do we find sunsets beautiful. How did this evolutionary process occur? You can substitute sunrise, diamonds, trees, art, the beach, or even music.
The premise that this question stems from is absurd. You are, essentially, stating that without an invisible friend, the world would be ugly.
We humans (and other animals, presumably) have an appreciation for symmetry, organization, order. When all thos ehtings come together in a plesant way, we call it "beauty."
Our brains will always make some sort of order out of chaos. We make constellation out of random distributions of starts. We see faces in the leaves of trees. We see beauty and ugliness, color and black and white, love and hate and joy and sadness.
I'm sure some evolutionary psychologists has come up with a better answer than I but beauty is something that seems to be beneficial to our survival. We look for very specific qualties in out potential mates. Men are looking for right shape of the abdomen, wide hips, ample breasts. Shapely legs. All those are signs of fertility -- a good vessel for our offspring. When we find a female that meets all these qualities, they are "beautiful."
Women look for powerful arms and chests, hair (generally), muscular builds and aggressive and dominate behavior - all signs of a good protector and provider for their offspring. They find us "beautiful" when we meet all those qualities.
The point I'm making is that it's all about the genes. Our genes want to be passed on to the next generation so being beautiful is generally a pretty good thing for our genes. In that way, being beautiful and having an appreciation for beauty are survival traits.
I suspect even the lowliest animals have at least some dim view of "beauty."
Either that or some invisible man in the sky pre-programmed us to appreciate beauty which leads into all sorts of other complication such as if He had that kind of power, why not make everything beautiful and eliminate evil and . . . well, it boggles the mind.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Just lucky. And you should see the sun set over the Pacific Ocean sometime.DF
Yes, Deep,
God is truly an amazing, very CREATIVE, artist! And, I agree with you -- from Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, etc. -- His artwork is very inspiring. Now that you mention it -- God is in the inspiration business; first He inspired the Bible; now He inspired us to talk about and admire His creative work.
Wow! What an awesome God!
I can hardly wait to see how beautiful heaven will be -- oh, I'm sorry -- you do not have your reservation booked yet. Well, it is not too late.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Bill, the apparent descent of the sun below the horizon and the accompanying atmospheric effects are thought to be the handy-work of these Gods too....
Civilization Sun God
Aboriginal: Yhi
African: Liza
Chinese: Ten Suns
Egyptian: Ra or Re
Greek: Apollo
Japanese: Ama-terasu
Polynesian: Maui
Roman: Apollo
Sumerian: Utu
Regards
Hi Skeptik,
Yes, isn't it amazing that God created all of that into us; gave us this ability to appreciate the beauty of His created nature?
Of course, the Bible does tell us that is how we know there is a God -- by seeing His hand in all nature which surrounds us.
Truly He is an awesome God. I am happy you can appreciate that; even when you do not recognize it.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Yes, isn't it amazing that God created all of that into us; gave us this ability to appreciate the beauty of His created nature?
Of course, the Bible does tell us that is how we know there is a God -- by seeing His hand in all nature which surrounds us.
Truly He is an awesome God. I am happy you can appreciate that; even when you do not recognize it.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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A lot of the "beauty" of sunsets can be attributed to atmospheric pollutants. Since we've cleaned up the air here so much the sunsets are a bit less spectacular.
Technically, though, when the sun sinks toward and below the horizon, the light passes through a thicker volume of atmosphere (air). The air filters out less energetic wavelengths and we are left with the orange, yellows, and reds. It facilitates an easy transition between the cones (?) we use to see in daytime, and the rods (?) we use at night.
The interaction between our eyes and the available light is truly amazing.
Technically, though, when the sun sinks toward and below the horizon, the light passes through a thicker volume of atmosphere (air). The air filters out less energetic wavelengths and we are left with the orange, yellows, and reds. It facilitates an easy transition between the cones (?) we use to see in daytime, and the rods (?) we use at night.
The interaction between our eyes and the available light is truly amazing.
To all of my atheist/agnostic/secular humanist friends. Please read this post carefully. I concede that you can make an argument as to how food taste good, sex is pleasurable, women are beautiful etc., but you still have not answered the basic premise as to why a sunset is beautiful. It has no value for survival as does not art, diamonds, pretty clothes, etc. I am really disappointed in the lack of a clear or concise argument against my premise that God created our desire to see and experience beautiful things. I thought I would have gotten better from the intellectual giants of the evolutionists. Fat and Skeptic keep googling away. You're bound to find something.
BTW - please avoid the temptation to go off on a tangent that God forbids things pleasurable, because that is a misinterpretation of scripture. - Just thought I'd head that one off.
BTW - please avoid the temptation to go off on a tangent that God forbids things pleasurable, because that is a misinterpretation of scripture. - Just thought I'd head that one off.
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:
Emotions can be useful I guess, but what intrinsic value does viewing a sunset (over a glass of zinfandel no doubt ) have?
It's fun and pleasant.
DF
Yea, and what's your point Fat?
quote:I concede that you can make an argument as to how food taste good, sex is pleasurable, women are beautiful etc., but you still have not answered the basic premise as to why a sunset is beautiful.
Is it really "beautiful", or has our culture simply defined it as being beautiful? I would suppose there are or have been cultures to whom a sunset was a terrifying thing. The sun setting leaves a pall of blackness, death, and danger about the world. Is that beautiful. or simply terrifying?
quote:It has no value for survival as does not art, diamonds, pretty clothes, etc.
Art is a representation of nature. Art, I suppose, started with cave drawings as a means of communicating information, a decided survival advantage. In our modern society, diamonds and pretty clothes are assumed necessary to get a desirable mate; again, a survival advantage.
quote:I am really disappointed in the lack of a clear or concise argument against my premise that God created our desire to see and experience beautiful things.
Are you really? You're simply trying to get those who have a fundamental lack of a need to believe in "God" to admit that, yes, you are probably right. As I'm not one of them, I'd like to believe that, among the other things, God wants us to find joy in our lives. But along with the beautiful things, you'd have to admit that God also provided terrible, fearsome things, as well; and He made our revulsion at seeing those things. Again, it could also be a survival instince.
I don't know; perhaps all these reasons are correct.
quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:quote:I concede that you can make an argument as to how food taste good, sex is pleasurable, women are beautiful etc., but you still have not answered the basic premise as to why a sunset is beautiful.
Is it really "beautiful", or has our culture simply defined it as being beautiful? I would suppose there are or have been cultures to whom a sunset was a terrifying thing. The sun setting leaves a pall of blackness, death, and danger about the world. Is that beautiful. or simply terrifying?quote:It has no value for survival as does not art, diamonds, pretty clothes, etc.
Art is a representation of nature. Art, I suppose, started with cave drawings as a means of communicating information, a decided survival advantage. In our modern society, diamonds and pretty clothes are assumed necessary to get a desirable mate; again, a survival advantage.quote:I am really disappointed in the lack of a clear or concise argument against my premise that God created our desire to see and experience beautiful things.
Are you really? You're simply trying to get those who have a fundamental lack of a need to believe in "God" to admit that, yes, you are probably right. As I'm not one of them, I'd like to believe that, among the other things, God wants us to find joy in our lives. But along with the beautiful things, you'd have to admit that God also provided terrible, fearsome things, as well; and He made our revulsion at seeing those things. Again, it could also be a survival instince.
I don't know; perhaps all these reasons are correct.
For the third time, I have conceded things that are directly related to survival i.e. food taste good, loud noises are scary, and congratulations on figuring out my tongue in cheek argument.
And I saw a bumper sticker:
"Dog is my Co-Pilot."
"Dog is my Co-Pilot."
quote:Originally posted by Smooth operator:
o all of my atheist/agnostic/secular humanist friends. Please read this post carefully. I concede that you can make an argument as to how food taste good, sex is pleasurable, women are beautiful etc., but you still have not answered the basic premise as to why a sunset is beautiful.
I certainly tried. I'm telling you what *I* think. If you want to Google it, be my guess. The bottom lines is that it's probably something along the lines of what Deep said: It is pleasurable.
I've told you why I think the recognition of beauty is a necessary survival trait and why we place so much value upon it.
It doesn't take a sunset to get my brain to release endorphins that stimulate the pleasure centers of my brain. I can dangle my legs in a pool, look at a beautiful painting or stare at the clouds or stare into my wife's eyes.
What's your point, Smooth? What are we not telling you that you want to hear? Would "dammfino" be a better answer?
[I certainly tried. I'm telling you what *I* think. If you want to Google it, be my guess. The bottom lines is that it's probably something along the lines of what Deep said: It is pleasurable.
I've told you why I think the recognition of beauty is a necessary survival trait and why we place so much value upon it.
It doesn't take a sunset to get my brain to release endorphins that stimulate the pleasure centers of my brain. I can dangle my legs in a pool, look at a beautiful painting or stare at the clouds or stare into my wife's eyes.
What's your point, Smooth? What are we not telling you that you want to hear? Would "dammfino" be a better answer?[/QUOTE]
It's obvious isn't it? You're lost without google.
I've told you why I think the recognition of beauty is a necessary survival trait and why we place so much value upon it.
It doesn't take a sunset to get my brain to release endorphins that stimulate the pleasure centers of my brain. I can dangle my legs in a pool, look at a beautiful painting or stare at the clouds or stare into my wife's eyes.
What's your point, Smooth? What are we not telling you that you want to hear? Would "dammfino" be a better answer?[/QUOTE]
It's obvious isn't it? You're lost without google.
I gave you my point. Sunsets are pretty, and enjoying one over a glass of Zin is a pleasant way to end the day.
Have you no sense of the beautiful, and are you incapable of simple, slow pleasures?
If we are evolved to have pleasures, and we probably are, there is no reason to overexamine them. It is enough to enjoy.
Put aside your hatred long enough to enjoy a sunset over a glass of something pleasing to drink and think on this.
DF
Have you no sense of the beautiful, and are you incapable of simple, slow pleasures?
If we are evolved to have pleasures, and we probably are, there is no reason to overexamine them. It is enough to enjoy.
Put aside your hatred long enough to enjoy a sunset over a glass of something pleasing to drink and think on this.
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
I gave you my point. Sunsets are pretty, and enjoying one over a glass of Zin is a pleasant way to end the day.
Have you no sense of the beautiful, and are you incapable of simple, slow pleasures?
If we are evolved to have pleasures, and we probably are, there is no reason to overexamine them. It is enough to enjoy.
Put aside your hatred long enough to enjoy a sunset over a glass of something pleasing to drink and think on this.
DF
ahhh. DF the king of red herrings. I used to be amused, but now I have grown quite tired of them. Nothing in your post is relevant, and you know it, and so does everyone else. The other atheist will rally around your misdirections, and high five you like they would a school ground bully whom they're all secretly afraid of, but I still don't have a straight answer. Of course I have a sense of the beautiful, and simple slow pleasures are a wonderful part of life, but why did they "evolve" There is no logic to that. You can't even explain "why" they are pleasurable. You can't even explain what "pleasure" is. Why is it necessary for existence?
BTW - what hatred??? I'm the one who's been attacked constantly by the godless crowd. I've simply put our questions you can't answer, and to stand up to your bullying tactics. All I hear from the others is how "intellectual" you are, and indeed you do possess wonderful writing skills, but as far as intellect, all I've seen you do is to repeat garbage you've googled on the internet.
It's true. I cannot answer a nonsensical question.
DF
DF