quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:

Other than miracles or prophecy, give me one example in the Bible which has been proven to be scientifically in error (creation falls under miracle). Make sure to document your claims with appropriate scripture references.


What? Seeing how ALL miracles, prophecy and creation are scientifically in error I would see why you would want to exclude them. Whats left bedtime stories? Jonah lived in the belly of a whale.....is that what your talking about or do you consider that a miracle too?


The reason I want to exclude them is because you can neither disprove, nor can I prove that they existed. They become a mute point.
Link


The Calculations

Here again is the quote being referred to:

"And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." — First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26

The bowl is said to have had a circumference of thirty cubits and a diameter of ten cubits. The diameter is said to be "from one rim to the other", so this would be the outer diameter; that is, the diameter of the outer mold used to make the bowl.

The outer diameter, from rim to rim, was ten cubits.

The circumference is not specified as being the inner or outer circumference, but since using the outer circumference would give us the "ideal" bowl (with no width or thickness), let's instead use the inner circumference, which also, reasonably, would have been the circumference of the mold used to form the inside of the bowl. That is, we will use the two measurements which were necessary for the casting of the piece.

Using eighteen inches for one cubit, we have the following:

outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches

To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius. Once we have that value, we can plug it into the formula for the circumference and compare with the given circumference value of 540 inches.

Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:

90 – 4 = 86 inches

Let's do the calculations:

inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches


The inner radius and the inner circumference.

The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:

540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)

Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.

Um... Isn't "3.14" the approximation we all use for pi? Perhaps those Phoenicians were fairly accurate after all.
Nice try, but it doesn't fly.
Ten cubits from one rim to another.

A line of thirty cubits did compass it round about

Compass is the limits of any area. Obviously the outer rim is the limit. Furthermore, was the author of this story just trying to confuss us by providing measurements based on different perameters for the same object. While these ancients were not particular savy, it would have been ridiculous even for them to give the measurement for the diameter based on the distance of one rim and the circumference based on the other rim.

The Bible makes no mention of the width of the rim.

You conveniently avoided my original reference. II Chronicles 4:2 "Also he made a moulton sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Notice this passage, unlike Kings, uses COMPASS (boundry) for both the circumference and the diameter. There can be no doubt as to the points of measurements. Pi is unequivically 3.00 in this passage.
Last edited by davidnmiles
"Absolute hogwash."

Boy it sure is. Just more Biblespeak. Can't the Bible ever say what it means. The Bible's inspired authors "knew" that the earth is a three dimensional sphere but they called it a two dimensional circle. Why are the Bible and God always trying to fool us. God plants dinosauer bones just to fool us. Then the Bible talks about this "sphere" having four corners--don't remember that in solid geometry.

Of course, there is the crazy story about Satan taking Jesus to a high mountain and showing him all the kingdoms of the earth. Amazing, in order for Jesus to see all the kingdoms of the earth, the earth would have to be flat.

What I do not understand is if Christiandom knew the earth was round, why didn't they tell mariners not to fear falling off the earth?
quote:
The reason I want to exclude them is because you can neither disprove, nor can I prove that they existed. They become a mute [sic] point.


Yet, you believe they happened. Is your evidence simply the lack of disproof?

If so, you should be ashamed of yourself.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
As usual you are reaching. Sorry you are so bitter.


When you cannot respond with reason or provide evidence, resort to hackneyed cliches.
"You are bitter" is only half the standard mental evaluation. It is supposed to be, "You must be very unhappy. You are so bitter."
Try "Out of context!" That is a must when I reveal a biblical absurdity.
Pointing out that a circle is two dimensional and a sphere is three dimensional absolutely is in need of a "You hate God." You might add, "and Christians."
Smoothie, you have a great debating technique.

Back when I was bitter, unhappy and hated God I believed that the earth revolved around the sun. Now that I have been roused from my dogmatic slumbers by biblical science, I know that the sun revolves around the earth.

Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

My education in celestial motion was enhanced by Ernest Hemingway--the fellow who wrote, "The Sun Also Rises." This really wasn't his idea. He learned it from Ecclesiastes 1:5
"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he rose."
Last edited by davidnmiles
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
As usual you are reaching. Sorry you are so bitter.


When you cannot respond with reason or provide evidence, resort to hackneyed cliches.
"You are bitter" is only half the standard mental evaluation. It is supposed to be, "You must be very unhappy. You are so bitter."
Try "Out of context!" That is a must when I reveal a biblical absurdity.
Pointing out that a circle is two dimensional and a sphere is three dimensional absolutely is in need of a "You hate God." You might add, "and Christians."
Smoothie, you have a great debating technique.

Back when I was bitter, unhappy and hated God I believed that the earth revolved around the sun. Now that I have been roused from my dogmatic slumbers by biblical science, I know that the sun revolves around the earth.

Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

My education in celestial motion was enhanced by Ernest Hemingway--the fellow who wrote, "The Sun Also Rises." This really wasn't his idea. He learned it from Ecclesiastes 1:5
"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he rose."


Ok, I'm sorry you are so sad and bitter.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
It's the best he's got, Zip.


DF


It doesn't matter what I've got. If I say it's blue, you'll say it's black. The truth means nothing to an atheist, because an atheist believes only in himself. I am sad for you, but I am also angry because you try to lead others down your same miserable path. You mislead people as to what Christianity is about, and you deceive others about the truths of the Bible. Atheism is nothing new. It's been tried many times before, and it always leads to death and destruction. If you want to see "advanced" atheistic societies, look at China and Russia. As for me, I'll take "One Nation Under God."
hahahahahahahahaha....

Smoothy, you crack me up.

Truth is all I've got. I believe in what is demonstrable, what is knowable. YOU believe in ghosts and fairy tales.

You want to talk about miserable paths? How about yours, full of cannibalism, human sacrifice, and deliberate suffering? Please, sir.

Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac? He was glad every minute he was not a fundamentalist, else he would be sorry for himself.


DF
You know, Smoothie, I don't hate God. Not one little bit. But I have a real problem with christians who don't understand their limits.
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
It doesn't matter what I've got. If I say it's blue, you'll say it's black.

You haven't said anything is blue. You've only accused people who disagree with you of being bitter, hating God, and hating Christians. You seem to consider that a relevant argument. Here's a hint: You're wrong.
quote:
The truth means nothing to an atheist, because an atheist believes only in himself.

There's another fallacy. That an atheist does not accept the existence of God says nothing at all about what he or she believes. I believe in God, but I also believe in physics, mathematics, and the designated hitter rule. Cookey believes in the contribution of the chocolate chip cookie to world peace, and deep fat believes in the restorative value of french fries. I'd ask what you believe in, but you'd consider such a question insulting. While they may not agree with your--or, for that matter, my--beliefs, they believe in your right to believe them.
quote:
I am sad for you, but I am also angry because you try to lead others down your same miserable path.

What miserable path is that? The path toward intellectual honesty? If intellectual honesty is a threat to your faith, then your faith needs some self-examination. I examine my faith constantly, and I try to remain intellectually honest while doing so.
quote:
You mislead people as to what Christianity is about, and you deceive others about the truths of the Bible.

What is christianity all about? Really? We each seem to have our own concept of "christianity". Many seem to share one, but they are the ones who typically allow others to do their thinking for them.
quote:
Atheism is nothing new. It's been tried many times before, and it always leads to death and destruction.

I wouldn't open that door, were I you.
quote:
If you want to see "advanced" atheistic societies, look at China and Russia. As for me, I'll take "One Nation Under God."

I'd take the ideal of what America was once, and may be again. But how about the theocratic societies of Yemen, Saudi Arabia, or Iran? They are certainly not atheistic.
While there are some who may ridicule you (or me) about our beliefs, it's hardly a challenge if you are firm in your faith. Unfortunately, when some christians meet those challenges, they simply fall apart. I can't speak for all; my objective here is (first) fun, entertainment, and intellectual stimulation; and, (second) examining my own faith and beliefs and giving other christians the opportunity to do the same.
If you are truly secure in your faith, you will never be truly threatened by atheists, muslims, mormons, JWs, or amway salespeople. But instead you are stuck on the "you're bitter" line. I'd work on that.
If there is one proof of god, it's french fries with Tabasco. Crunchy french fries.

the hell with soggy french french fries.


DF
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
You know, Smoothie, I don't hate God. Not one little bit. But I have a real problem with christians who don't understand their limits.
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
It doesn't matter what I've got. If I say it's blue, you'll say it's black.

You haven't said anything is blue. You've only accused people who disagree with you of being bitter, hating God, and hating Christians. You seem to consider that a relevant argument. Here's a hint: You're wrong.
quote:
The truth means nothing to an atheist, because an atheist believes only in himself.

There's another fallacy. That an atheist does not accept the existence of God says nothing at all about what he or she believes. I believe in God, but I also believe in physics, mathematics, and the designated hitter rule. Cookey believes in the contribution of the chocolate chip cookie to world peace, and deep fat believes in the restorative value of french fries. I'd ask what you believe in, but you'd consider such a question insulting. While they may not agree with your--or, for that matter, my--beliefs, they believe in your right to believe them.
quote:
I am sad for you, but I am also angry because you try to lead others down your same miserable path.

What miserable path is that? The path toward intellectual honesty? If intellectual honesty is a threat to your faith, then your faith needs some self-examination. I examine my faith constantly, and I try to remain intellectually honest while doing so.
quote:
You mislead people as to what Christianity is about, and you deceive others about the truths of the Bible.

What is christianity all about? Really? We each seem to have our own concept of "christianity". Many seem to share one, but they are the ones who typically allow others to do their thinking for them.
quote:
Atheism is nothing new. It's been tried many times before, and it always leads to death and destruction.

I wouldn't open that door, were I you.
quote:
If you want to see "advanced" atheistic societies, look at China and Russia. As for me, I'll take "One Nation Under God."

I'd take the ideal of what America was once, and may be again. But how about the theocratic societies of Yemen, Saudi Arabia, or Iran? They are certainly not atheistic.
While there are some who may ridicule you (or me) about our beliefs, it's hardly a challenge if you are firm in your faith. Unfortunately, when some christians meet those challenges, they simply fall apart. I can't speak for all; my objective here is (first) fun, entertainment, and intellectual stimulation; and, (second) examining my own faith and beliefs and giving other christians the opportunity to do the same.
If you are truly secure in your faith, you will never be truly threatened by atheists, muslims, mormons, JWs, or amway salespeople. But instead you are stuck on the "you're bitter" line. I'd work on that.


I'm not "threatened" one bit. You mistake anger for fear. If I saw someone pushing a child in front of an on coming car, I would be angry, there would even be fear, but the basic emotion would be anger at the person who committed the act. I think you should examine who and what you are. I don't think you know.
I threaten you, Smoothie.

I challenge the assumptions you hold. I pick apart the conclusions at which you arrive.

I hold you to a modest, minimum standard of evidence you cannot achieve. I point out the circularity of your logic.

You may direct your ire at me. I welcome it. It is my food. But I will eat first.

quote:

What is christianity all about?
So you ask.

You would rather die than live the life of a real Christian. Maybe I would, as well, but I make no pretenses to the contrary.

The harsh truth of the matter is, modern christians have corrupted the notion of the teachings of the character Jesus beyond recognition. And you are a sterling, shining, rock-ribbed example of such. congratulations.

I'm an atheist, yet likely a better Christian than you.

DF
Fire bad, tree pretty!


FWIW:

unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity... and Why It Matters (Hardcover)
by David Kinnaman


According to Kinnaman's Barna study, here are the percentages of people outside the church who think that the following words describe present-day Christianity:

* antihomosexual 91%
* judgmental 87%
* hypocritical 85%
* old-fashioned 78%
* too political 75%
* out of touch with reality 72%
* insensitive to others 70%
* boring 68%

It would be hard to overestimate, says Kinnaman, "how firmly people reject-- and feel rejected by-- Christians" (19). Or think about it this way, he suggests: "When you introduce yourself as a Christian to a friend, neighbor, or business associate who is an outsider, you might as well have it tattooed on your arm: antihomosexual, gay-hater, homophobic. I doubt you think of yourself in these terms, but that's what outsiders think of you"
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
According to Kinnaman's Barna study, here are the percentages of people outside the church who think that the following words describe present-day Christianity:

* antihomosexual 91%
* judgmental 87%
* hypocritical 85%
* old-fashioned 78%
* too political 75%
* out of touch with reality 72%
* insensitive to others 70%
* boring 68%


Spot on, LMM. It's almost sad that the Christian movement has been polluted by the people that our Bloviator and Smoothie represent.
I always figured DeepFat for a TaterTot man myself. As a Baptist I try to refrain from the fused tater particles, they give me gas.... Wink

Attachments

Images (1)
I will hug him and love him and call him George!

So cute! LOL.

I love chips myself. I can eat 3 bags straight coming up for beer once in a while!
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
I threaten you, Smoothie.

I challenge the assumptions you hold. I pick apart the conclusions at which you arrive.

I hold you to a modest, minimum standard of evidence you cannot achieve. I point out the circularity of your logic.

You may direct your ire at me. I welcome it. It is my food. But I will eat first.

quote:

What is christianity all about?
So you ask.

You would rather die than live the life of a real Christian. Maybe I would, as well, but I make no pretenses to the contrary.

The harsh truth of the matter is, modern christians have corrupted the notion of the teachings of the character Jesus beyond recognition. And you are a sterling, shining, rock-ribbed example of such. congratulations.

I'm an atheist, yet likely a better Christian than you.

DF


Fat I do agree with you on one thing. Religion is going away in the world. Christianity is becoming almost non-existent. This will most likely continue until we see an almost complete degradation of society in general. Atheist such as yourself will herald it as the coming of a new age of reason, but what is truly happening is the downfall of society itself. This has occurred before, and is happening again. Man becomes arrogant, and even believes himself to be godlike, but what he will find is that he is anything but god. In this world, and especially in the U.S., morals are rapidly declining. Teenage pregnancy is skyrocketing, the murder of unborn babies has even become not only social acceptable, but even expected. Drugs, gang violence, school shootings, are all the result of the decline of the worshiping of God, but the Atheist will blame it on religious repression. Again, they will call what is the truth a lie, and what is a lie the truth, just as prophesied 2,000 years ago. I promise you Fat, that you are not a better Christian than I. I have more love for even you than you can understand, but I have even more love for the truth of the Gospel of Christ.
Nonsense. Religion is adapting itself to society. Religion is an invention of man to formalize, if you will, his relationship with God. There are those who don't accept the existence of God, given. But that doesn't threaten "religion". Now, you may not be comfortable with what religion morphs into, but it's doubtful you'd be comfortable with what religion was in the sixteenth century, either.

As long as a man accepts the existence and nature of God, there will always be a manifestation of that belief; a "religion". It may be intensely personal. It may not even be completely homogeneous. Even if the US goes all socialist on us and tries to kill off the idea of God, there will still be religion, practiced in the secret spaces.

You say the societal ills are caused by a turning away from God; perhaps. It's at the very least a turning away from the idea of right and wrong. I mean, even atheists have an idea of right and wrong. It rubs up against some christian concepts of right and wrong just as christian concepts grate against muslim.

We sure don't have any heroes anymore to teach us.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Nonsense. Religion is adapting itself to society. Religion is an invention of man to formalize, if you will, his relationship with God. There are those who don't accept the existence of God, given. But that doesn't threaten "religion". Now, you may not be comfortable with what religion morphs into, but it's doubtful you'd be comfortable with what religion was in the sixteenth century, either.

As long as a man accepts the existence and nature of God, there will always be a manifestation of that belief; a "religion". It may be intensely personal. It may not even be completely homogeneous. Even if the US goes all socialist on us and tries to kill off the idea of God, there will still be religion, practiced in the secret spaces.

You say the societal ills are caused by a turning away from God; perhaps. It's at the very least a turning away from the idea of right and wrong. I mean, even atheists have an idea of right and wrong. It rubs up against some christian concepts of right and wrong just as christian concepts grate against muslim.

We sure don't have any heroes anymore to teach us.


Although I can see how my post seemed like I believe there will be an end to religion, I did not mean to say that. That was an error on my part as I wrote the post in quite a hurry. I do believe there has been a sharp decline in religion as is evidenced by current events, however, there will eventually be a resurgence although it may take 500 years. (unless of course we see the return of Jesus before then). All men are given a measure of right and wrong as this comes from the spirit of God, so the idea of turning from right is indeed turning from God.
quote:
Drugs, gang violence, school shootings, are all the result of the decline of the worshiping of God


Rubbish.

I have no data on the subject, but I imagine god-believing drug addicts are proportionately the same as the population.

I live in LA. I know gangs. You're hard-pressed to find a gangster without crosses and Blessed Virgins tattood all over them. Please. The Mafia does not allow atheists.

School shootings have to do more with bullying, easy access to daddy's gun, and modern teens' sense of ultimate entitlement from a culture that "puts children first". Those sufficiently mentally ill to perpetrate such an act will not let religion get in the way.

Man becomes arrogant? How arrogant is it to invent gods very much like us?

I'll leave you with this: Atheists make up 10-14% of the US population. We make up about 1/2 of 1% of prison populations.


DF
Smoothie claims that the decline in worshipping God has caused problems.

The lack of God worship may have led to the decline in the number of Christians from 86.2 percent in 1990 to 76 percent in 2008. At the same time the fastest growing group was “no religion”, increasing from 8.2 percent to 15 percent during the same period.

What has happened during the period (1990-2008) where “no religion” was dramatically rising at the expense of Christianity? The violent crime rates dropped 37 percent. The teen (15-19) pregnancy rate dropped 35 percent and the teen abortion rate fell 46 percent.

The divorce rate in 2005 was 3.6 per 1000 people, the lowest rate since 1970.

A study done by the evangelical Barna Research Group found that Christian evangelicals had a higher divorce rate than atheists/agnostics.

Interviews conducted by the Gallup Poll in 2008 found that Mississippi (34), Alabama (22), South Carolina (2), Tennessee (4), Louisiana (3), and Arkansas (13) are the most religious states. Vermont (50), New Hampshire (49) , Maine (51), and Massachusetts (23) are the least religious states. The number in parenthesis is the states violent crime rate ranking (includes D.C.). Religion may not cause violent crime, but it certainly does not deter it.
David,
Is that ranking from high to low or low to high? It looks like to me that the least religious states have the higher numbers.

Also how does that compare to gun control in those states? Whether you are religious or not, if you have a gun, you will have less crime!
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
David,
Is that ranking from high to low or low to high? It looks like to me that the least religious states have the higher numbers.

Also how does that compare to gun control in those states? Whether you are religious or not, if you have a gun, you will have less crime!


The numbers in ( ) are ranking in numerical order. In other words South Carolina has the second highest violent crime rate in the nation and Vermont ranks 50th in violent crime rate.

I don't know about gun ownership in these states. But regardless, the states with the highest religiosity have the highest crime rates. Religion does not offset the "benefits" of owning or not owning a gun. The argument is often used that the more crime prone states are poorer and less educated. No doubt true. The religious place less value on education which in turn effects the poverty level. I would imagine that the pro-life crowd puts a very high value on guns--and I don't mean water pistols.

I have never heard, "Guns don't kill, atheists do."
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
Drugs, gang violence, school shootings, are all the result of the decline of the worshiping of God


Rubbish.

I have no data on the subject, but I imagine god-believing drug addicts are proportionately the same as the population.

I live in LA. I know gangs. You're hard-pressed to find a gangster without crosses and Blessed Virgins tattood all over them. Please. The Mafia does not allow atheists.

School shootings have to do more with bullying, easy access to daddy's gun, and modern teens' sense of ultimate entitlement from a culture that "puts children first". Those sufficiently mentally ill to perpetrate such an act will not let religion get in the way.

Man becomes arrogant? How arrogant is it to invent gods very much like us?

I'll leave you with this: Atheists make up 10-14% of the US population. We make up about 1/2 of 1% of prison populations.


DF


Fat, I would think that someone as intelligent as yourself would recognize when someone was speaking of society in general, not in terms of micro societal issues.
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
David,
Is that ranking from high to low or low to high? It looks like to me that the least religious states have the higher numbers.

Also how does that compare to gun control in those states? Whether you are religious or not, if you have a gun, you will have less crime!


The numbers in ( ) are ranking in numerical order. In other words South Carolina has the second highest violent crime rate in the nation and Vermont ranks 50th in violent crime rate.

I don't know about gun ownership in these states. But regardless, the states with the highest religiosity have the highest crime rates. Religion does not offset the "benefits" of owning or not owning a gun. The argument is often used that the more crime prone states are poorer and less educated. No doubt true. The religious place less value on education which in turn effects the poverty level. I would imagine that the pro-life crowd puts a very high value on guns--and I don't mean water pistols.

I have never heard, "Guns don't kill, atheists do."


Huh????
David,
It just looks like to me that the ones surveyed are the ones who don't pay for caller id. Ironically, THE BIBLE BELT is the most religious area. Duh.


Guns don't kill people, angry people who pull the trigger do, Atheist or Christian.



Survey Methods

Results are based on telephone interviews with 355,334 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted in 2008 as part of Gallup Poll Daily tracking. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±1 percentage points.

The margin of sampling error for most states is ±1 percentage point, but is as high as ±4 percentage points for the District of Columbia, Wyoming, and North Dakota.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones (for respondents with a land-line telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell-phone only).

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.
quote:
Fat, I would think that someone as intelligent as yourself would recognize when someone was speaking of society in general, not in terms of micro societal issues.



I'm either not intelligent enough or too intelligent to understand that statement.


DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
Fat, I would think that someone as intelligent as yourself would recognize when someone was speaking of society in general, not in terms of micro societal issues.



I'm either not intelligent enough or too intelligent to understand that statement.


DF


I think you're just way too intelligent Fat.
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
David,
Ironically, THE BIBLE BELT is the most religious area. Duh.


Nothing ironic about the fact that the Bible Beltg (South) has the highest violent and property crime rates in the nation as repoted by the FBI. The Northeast has the lowest.

Religiosity and violent crime go hand in hand. This also applies to religiosity and crime rates by countries. Crime rates in atheistic Scandinavia are far lower than in very religious USA.

Of course this is all meaningless. Statistics and polls are always wrong when they conflict with a person's beliefs.
I saw one of the most beautiful many colored sunsets I've ever seen this past week, in Nebraska...Flatter lands made is look like you could see to the edge of earth, just gorgeous.
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
David,
Ironically, THE BIBLE BELT is the most religious area. Duh.


Nothing ironic about the fact that the Bible Beltg (South) has the highest violent and property crime rates in the nation as repoted by the FBI. The Northeast has the lowest.

Religiosity and violent crime go hand in hand. This also applies to religiosity and crime rates by countries. Crime rates in atheistic Scandinavia are far lower than in very religious USA.

Of course this is all meaningless. Statistics and polls are always wrong when they conflict with a person's beliefs.


And Godless communist countries have even lower crime rates. There are way too many variables to account for to make the above postulate. Socio-economics, level of law enforcement, education, poverty, all make up reasons for crime. Statistics like photos don't lie, but they are both very good sometimes at distorting the truth.

Still doesn't answer why sunsets are beautiful. Good try though.
"There are way too many variables to account for to make the above postulate. Socio-economics, level of law enforcement, education, poverty, all make up reasons for crime. Statistics like photos don't lie, but they are both very good sometimes at distorting the truth."

Given all these "variables," one fact remains: Religion, and specifically Christianity, does not prevent bad behavior (cirme). Hence, time spent in church could be better spend in the library (education does prevent bad behavior).

Varioables you cite:
Education- The more educated are less religious.
Poverty-The poor are more religious.

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