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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion begun my Dwight titled "Windsong Taking A Short Break" -- our dear Friend, Nagel, posted, "hey bill, you forgot to answer my question.. answer this..... if he could poof things into being like that.... snap, poof = universe.. snap, poof = earth, snap poof = ocean and fish, snap poof = trees and cows.. .etc etc....if he could poof it all into place at will... why did he blow 6 days to do what could have been done instantly, and why did he do it one bit at a time?

sorry.. just wanted to make sure you saw it... i kow (SIC) your old eyes aren't what they used to be. i didn't want to take the chance of you ' not noticing it', liek (SIC) has happened with so many other questions.

you accuse windsong of not answering questions, while the rest of us see you do the same thing. put up or shut up bill.. answer the question, or you lose the right to bring up windsong not answering anything ever again. so bill, art thou a hipocrit (SIC)?"


First of all, in the discussion mentioned above and begun by Dwight, you, Nagel, had not posted anything yet. So, how could I have missed the question you did not post? Just a thought.

Your post above does reminds me that I owe an apology to Dwight. I had told him that no one else on the Religion Forum spells as badly as him. I was wrong -- your spelling, if possible, is as bad or worse. While I know that Dwight (and Skippy?) is Mormon -- you are an atheist; so, I must presume you are not wearing the same dress. Did you attend the same school?

Now, see, this is why I feel bad for all the Shoals folks who did not get to attend Sheffield High -- for at dear old SHS, we learn to spell. But, maybe YOU can go back for remedial spelling classes. Just a thought!

However, on the other hand, you have asked a very good question -- and, for that, I do thank you. You asked why God took six days to create the heavens and the earth, when He could have done the full creation in a split second. I am happy you are beginning to wonder about such things. This means that there is still hope for you.

Why did God take six days? He was establishing a model for we humans. He knew that we humans, the animals, and the earth need days, or periods, of rest. So, He established this model -- work six days, rest on the seventh. This He wanted applied to both humans and to our domestic animals. You see, like a good Father, He teaches us through example -- the same way I presume you would teach your children or grandchildren.

For the earth, He told man to plant his fields for six years, and let the fields lay fallow on the seventh year, so that they may be restored (Leviticus 25:3-4).

Exodus 23:10-12, "You shall sow your land for six years and gather in its yield, but on the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, so that the needy of your people may eat; and whatever they leave the beast of the field may eat.

You are to do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove. Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves."


And, He concludes with the warning, "Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth." (Exodus 23:13).

Yes, my Friend, there is indeed ONE eternal, preexisting GOD, manifested in Three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And, one day, WE ALL must stand before Him in judgment. You would do well to get your reservation for the Believer's Judgment -- for it is a judgment of rewards. The other judgment, the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) is the judgment of punishment -- and, believe me -- you do not want to stand in line for God's punishment.

But, the really nice thing about our God -- is that He allows YOU to choose which you want: eternal rewards in heaven or eternal lake of fire in hell. YOU get to choose -- so, choose wisely, my Friend -- for eternity is a very, very long time.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
I'm guessing yours does not party.

Hi B,

Are you kidding? Every Sunday we have a feast for fellowship. And, on many birthday and anniversary parties -- we do boogie! Yep, nothing I like better than good (clean) dancing.

I like two kinds of secular music -- good listening music such as jazz, mood music, classical, etc. And, I like music with a good dance beat.

If secular music doesn't have a good dance beat -- it is just noise. But, lay out some good Big Band Sounds from the 1940s/50s, or good soul music from the 60s, a little disco from the 70s and early 80s -- now, that was dancing music.

And, good R&B never goes out of style. B.B King can always get me moving.

You bet I love to party. But, I much prefer a good Bible study on Friday nights.

Oh, and I forgot to mention -- in our worship service, when the Praise Band is leading us in Music Worship -- if the beat is good, you might notice me discreetly shaking my booty.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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excellent rebuttal billfer. of course, doesn't make any sort of rational sense that god would employ numerology. i can think of a thousand other more perfect ways of establishing his affinity for the number 7 but i guess your rebuttal is as good as any.

why not make it in seven seconds? seven minutes? seven hours? why 7? why not three? i'd much rather work 2 days and off 1.

why didn't god simply make us so that we don't even have to rest so we can glorify him 24/7? why didn't god make the earth so fertile that it wouldn't need a break? he could have allowed infinite number of crops year after year and allowed his chirrens to generate 1/7 more yield so as to prevent starvation.

as they say, the lord sure works in mysterious ways, don't he?
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
excellent rebuttal billfer. of course, doesn't make any sort of rational sense that god would employ numerology. i can think of a thousand other more perfect ways of establishing his affinity for the number 7 but i guess your rebuttal is as good as any.

why not make it in seven seconds? seven minutes? seven hours? why 7? why not three? i'd much rather work 2 days and off 1.

why didn't god simply make us so that we don't even have to rest so we can glorify him 24/7? why didn't god make the earth so fertile that it wouldn't need a break? he could have allowed infinite number of crops year after year and allowed his chirrens to generate 1/7 more yield so as to prevent starvation.

as they say, the lord sure works in mysterious ways, don't he?


Why do you care?
quote:
Originally posted by Loki:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
He wanted to party on the seventh?

DEPENDS UPON WHICH CHURCH ONE ATTENDS!

Can you give us a list of qualifying churches?

Hi Loki,

No, I can't -- for it most often does not depend upon the church; but, more the pastor and the congregation.

In my own church denomination -- there are pastors, such as mine now, who have no problem with dancing -- as long as it is not "dirty dancing."

And, I have a very dear Friend who was my pastor before -- who does not believe in dancing.

So, if I am at a function with my current pastor; my wife and I will dance. If we are at a function with my previous pastor; out of respect for him, we will not dance.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with dancing. But, I will respect the beliefs and feelings of other regarding the issue.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
excellent rebuttal billfer. of course, doesn't make any sort of rational sense that god would employ numerology. i can think of a thousand other more perfect ways of establishing his affinity for the number 7 but i guess your rebuttal is as good as any.

why not make it in seven seconds? seven minutes? seven hours? why 7? why not three? i'd much rather work 2 days and off 1.

why didn't god simply make us so that we don't even have to rest so we can glorify him 24/7? why didn't god make the earth so fertile that it wouldn't need a break? he could have allowed infinite number of crops year after year and allowed his chirrens to generate 1/7 more yield so as to prevent starvation.

as they say, the lord sure works in mysterious ways, don't he?

Hi Uno,

Personally, I do not know -- for His thoughts are much higher than mine (Isaiah 55:9).

But, if YOU ever get to know Him -- why don't you ask Him?

You can start seeking Him in the Bible -- or, better yet, find a good Christ-centered, Bible-teaching local church -- and become involved, especially in their Bible study. You will be amazed at the answers you will find.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Personally, I do not know -- for His thoughts are much higher than mine (Isaiah 55:9).


so, you pretend to have all the answers until, of course, you don't.

if you ever want to know how this stuff works over here in reality, let me know. i've got a few science books you can borrow.
HEY.. whadayaknow! bill gray answered a question!

if you haven't figured out by now bill, i stuck that in several places, to make sure you had no way to avoid it and even pretend you didnt see it.
you comment on my not having posted anything yet, so how could you have missed it?
the first time i posted that it was in direct response to you in a different thread. i just got the idea to copy/paste my whole post to all of your mose recent replies in all the threads here.. just to make sure you saw it..


( note: it'll be annoying, but we might have found the way to prevent bill from blowing off questions from us. flood the forum with them so he has no alternative.)

i will even ignore the cute little bad spelling shot you took, because it's only fair. i took a few shots at you, and i do spell more poorly than most (florence city schools victim) but my real flaw is in typing and not proof-reading, not in the spelling in and of itself.

So.. Congratz, Bill! how does it feel to finally step up and answer a question instead of pretending no one has asked you anything?
it's GOT to be satisfying, at least on some level.

but, as to your acctual answer?
Pucky. he's god. he's all powerful. what does HE need to train us for? why not just do it like he did everything else in the OT.. " I'm God, do it my way or you fry!"

especially when you consider that to lead by example, you must have soemone there to witness your actions. adam showed up on.. day 3? day 4? so by then he'd missed half the party anyway.

it's a reasonable answer... but just not an answer that rings true..
the verses you quoted pretty much back my opinion.. he is god.. he tells them how to do things. nothing else should be needed, lest he smite their butts.

and just to set the record straight , again.. i'm not athiest. an athiest denies that ther is a God - that all aspects of faith are false and fictional. i believe whole heartedly in God. i have huge massive doubts on the veracity of the bible, and i have no belief whatsoever in the people on earth who claim to work for him.
to sum up...
God = Yes
Bible = Maybe, but doubtful
You, billy graham, that chuck guy you talk about, any other 'man of god' = Hell no.

also don't be happy.. i wasn't wondering about the answer to my question.. i was wondering what you would say to it.

i already have an answer that makes sense. i was just wondering *if* i could get an answer from you this time, and if so, what it would be.
quote:
HEY.. whadayaknow! bill gray answered a question!

if you haven't figured out by now bill, i stuck that in several places, to make sure you had no way to avoid it and even pretend you didnt see it.
you comment on my not having posted anything yet, so how could you have missed it?
the first time i posted that it was in direct response to you in a different thread. i just got the idea to copy/paste my whole post to all of your mose recent replies in all the threads here.. just to make sure you saw it..

That's SOP for bill. You can ask him something over and over and somehow he "didn't see the question". OR he "answers" it with a question of his own, or my favorite, he leaves for a while hoping you'll give up and move on.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
HEY.. whadayaknow! bill gray answered a question!

if you haven't figured out by now bill, i stuck that in several places, to make sure you had no way to avoid it and even pretend you didnt see it.
you comment on my not having posted anything yet, so how could you have missed it?
the first time i posted that it was in direct response to you in a different thread. i just got the idea to copy/paste my whole post to all of your mose recent replies in all the threads here.. just to make sure you saw it..

That's SOP for bill. You can ask him something over and over and somehow he "didn't see the question". OR he "answers" it with a question of his own, or my favorite, he leaves for a while hoping you'll give up and move on.


oh i know.. it's why i plastered it all over the place. i hated to do it, it annoys me when someone else does it, but i wanted to give it a shot.. all other methods have failed.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
and just to set the record straight , again.. i'm not athiest (SIC). an athiest (SIC) denies that ther (SIC) is a God - that all aspects of faith are false and fictional. i believe whole heartedly in God. i have huge massive doubts on the veracity of the bible, and i have no belief whatsoever in the people on earth who claim to work for him.

i already have an answer that makes sense. i was just wondering *if* i could get an answer from you this time, and if so, what it would be.

Hi Nagel,

Wow! Nagel believes in God! But, Nagel believes NOTHING God wrote or said is true. And, nothing that folks teach about God is true. I AM CURIOUS. Nagel, which God do you believe is out there?

Is He the god of secularism? Is he the god of the cult or world religions? Nagel, in your mind (and we will not go there) -- just who is God?

You tell us that you have an answer to the question you posed. Please, do give us your answer. Inquiring minds want to know!

Nagel, you tell us you are not an atheist, that you believe in "some God." Yet, you want that god to fit around you and your world -- instead of you fitting into His world. You want to believe and follow YOUR words -- instead of His Written Word.

I suppose the only category in which you will fit -- is the one I often use to describe those in living in between, in the nether regions -- I suppose you are just a plain old "vanilla-flavored non-believer." Whatever!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
HEY.. whadayaknow! bill gray answered a question!

if you haven't figured out by now bill, i stuck that in several places, to make sure you had no way to avoid it and even pretend you didnt see it.
you comment on my not having posted anything yet, so how could you have missed it?
the first time i posted that it was in direct response to you in a different thread. i just got the idea to copy/paste my whole post to all of your mose recent replies in all the threads here.. just to make sure you saw it..

That's SOP for bill. You can ask him something over and over and somehow he "didn't see the question". OR he "answers" it with a question of his own, or my favorite, he leaves for a while hoping you'll give up and move on.

oh i know.. it's why i plastered it all over the place. i hated to do it, it annoys me when someone else does it, but i wanted to give it a shot.. all other methods have failed.

I LOVE IT WHEN THE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER PEACEFULLY!

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,
Wow! Nagel believes in God! But, Nagel believes NOTHING God wrote or said is true. And, nothing that folks teach about God is true. I AM CURIOUS. Nagel, which God do you believe is out there?
Bill


Bill, where did nagel say he believes NOTHING God wrote or said???? See how you twist things around? Of course you choose not to see anything but what you want to see.
And what's wrong with not believing anything that folks teach about God?
Look at yourself, you claim to know it all but you are nothing but a false prophet laboring for Satan.
ok.. ok i'll answer some of this. you were kind enough to respond to my post, so i'll return like with like.
however, i warn you.. get your (sic) macro ready, because i'm cooking dinner and don't have time to bother spellchecking.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
and just to set the record straight , again.. i'm not athiest (SIC). an athiest (SIC) denies that ther (SIC) is a God - that all aspects of faith are false and fictional. i believe whole heartedly in God. i have huge massive doubts on the veracity of the bible, and i have no belief whatsoever in the people on earth who claim to work for him.

i already have an answer that makes sense. i was just wondering *if* i could get an answer from you this time, and if so, what it would be.

Hi Nagel,

Wow! Nagel believes in God! But, Nagel believes NOTHING God wrote or said is true. And, nothing that folks teach about God is true. I AM CURIOUS. Nagel, which God do you believe is out there?

1 - yes i do. if you'd ever acctually understood anything i've written i nthe last year yopu would already know this.
2 - i don't believe God had anythign to do with the bible. i believe the bible was written by man, so this one doesn't apply.
3 - i didn't say nothing that folks teach abotu god is true, i said i didn't believe in the self appointed spokes people have god in thier hearts. i trust in god, it's his fan club i think are lying scumbags.
4 - there is only 1 God. you and i believe in the same one, but you've been misled by words written thousands of years ago by twisted sick people who wanted to rule and wanted to set rules for the masses, and used the fear of God to forward their position - so what you believe to be true abotu God is far different in what i believe about him.

quote:

You tell us that you have an answer to the question you posed. Please, do give us your answer. Inquiring minds want to know!



i've said it a dozen times, you just don't read... or you don't comprehend what you read. or it doesn't agree with your opinion, so you reject it without understanding it.
BUT.. for the record.

i believe that God created the rules, laws and facts of physics mathmatics and etc. i think he used those rules to create the universe some 12ish billion years ago. in accordance with those laws and rules, bit by bit, year by year, we evolved from the chaos that was the big bang.. the explosion that began the path to .. something we likly will never understand.
the earth began to form 6 or so billion year ago, and it cooled and it grew and life began and evolved into us, and we evolv into something else.
i think the 6 on 1 off deal form genesis was soemone trying to understand somethign he couldn't, and trying to explain it to other peopel at the same time.
in other words - fiction.

quote:


Nagel, you tell us you are not an atheist, that you believe in "some God." Yet, you want that god to fit around you and your world -- instead of you fitting into His world. You want to believe and follow YOUR words -- instead of His Written Word.


i never said ' some god'. i said God. you imply there are others, but there aren't.
i don't want God to ' fit into ' my world. my world is petty and mean and callous, filled with peple who hate and fear and engender that fear and hate in other and call themselves rightious. i wouldn't wish this place on any self respecting diety.

i have no choice BUT to fit into his world. neither do you. nor NSNS nor VEEP nor even Obama. the difference is that you think he is here, stirring the pot, adding seasonsing, helping out, answering prayers, writing books and keeping us safe and happy. you believe he had a hand in writing that book and that that book is his direct word, his law, to us.

i don't. i don't think he's given us ' words ' or laws or rules to follow, other than your basic idea of ' do unto others' and ' don't be a jerk' concepts that are built into us, mostly as a survival instinct.. if you are a horrible horrible person and everyone hates you, it's goign to be hard to get a mate and continue your line. so we're nice, inherently, to have a future for our kids.

i don't pretend to konw what out purpose here is, but it's somethign far more grand than ' if i'm good i cna go watch god sit on a chair and sing songs to him." how boring and tedious and awful that would be
and it's something more significant than adding to the aquired pool of knowledge and passing it on to our kids, so they may aquire more knowledge and pass it on to theirs, because this life is all there is. what a usless tragic waste that would be.

quote:


I suppose the only category in which you will fit -- is the one I often use to describe those in living in between, in the nether regions -- I suppose you are just a plain old "vanilla-flavored non-believer." Whatever!



you are welcome to put me in whatever bracket you are able to cope with me in.
just because you label me doesn't make the label true, so whatever makes you happy, bill. i'll just continue on being me regadless of what you think i am.
quote:
just because you label me doesn't make the label true, so whatever makes you happy, bill. i'll just continue on being me regadless of what you think i am.


Good for you, Nagel. Bill, he's right. You need to stop judging people and categorizing them.
Leave that up to the only Judge.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
just because you label me doesn't make the label true, so whatever makes you happy, bill. i'll just continue on being me regadless of what you think i am.


Good for you, Nagel. Bill, he's right. You need to stop judging people and categorizing them.
Leave that up to the only Judge.


/bows
good to see you again Veeps Smiler
Hi Nagel,

Is there ANY part of the Bible you believe? If so, which book, part, verse, etc.? And, why that part and not the rest?

Is there ANY pastor, teacher, theologian, etc., that you believe? If so, who -- and why do you believe him?

If you say you are a Christian -- how did you become a Christian -- and when?

Just curious.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,

Is there ANY part of the Bible you believe? If so, which book, part, verse, etc.? And, why that part and not the rest?
The part that said printed in the U.S.A.

Is there ANY pastor, teacher, theologian, etc., that you believe? If so, who -- and why do you believe him?

John Wayne.....Because hes the Duke of something.

If you say you are a Christian -- how did you become a Christian -- and when?

I never said I was a Christian, I saw that movie last year.

Just curious.

No you're not, but you're annoying

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill


God doesn't even believe you mean that, you should stop saying it.


notnegel
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Bill, where did nagel say he believes NOTHING God wrote or said???? See how you twist things around? Of course you choose not to see anything but what you want to see.
And what's wrong with not believing anything that folks teach about God?
Look at yourself, you claim to know it all but you are nothing but a false prophet laboring for Satan.



i should be fair Semi... he was refering to the fact that i don't believe the bible is the written word of god.
but he needs to quit saying that i don't believe anything god said is true....

...because i don't believe god said it. if i DID think god wrote it, but still denied it, that'd be one thing... but he's trying to link knowing disobedience to god with rejecting that god had anythign to do with the words i'm disobeying.

if god didn't write the bible, then i'm not disobeying gods written word Smiler bill can't quite get that part through his head. he seems to think either you believe god wrote the bible and conform to gods law.... or you secretly believe god wrote the bible and you knowingly reject his law out of evil and spite.
bill has trouble understanding that some people really truly believe the bible wasn't written by god. so he behaves as if they do and ends up looking foolish.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,

Is there ANY part of the Bible you believe? If so, which book, part, verse, etc.? And, why that part and not the rest?

Is there ANY pastor, teacher, theologian, etc., that you believe? If so, who -- and why do you believe him?

If you say you are a Christian -- how did you become a Christian -- and when?

Just curious.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


1 - not really. i think that if any of it is true, it might be some of the stories in the 4 gospels. not all of them. i'm honestly still evaluating my thoughts on that, so i can't give you chapter and verse on anything. i reject the whole of the old testament outright.
the why is because the 4 gospels contain the part that seems least likely susepetable to fictionalization. not the story of the crucifiction and ressurection, but the stories about his every day day to day life, before the crucifiction. the parables they credit to jesus.. the sermon on the mount.
one of the things that makes me think they might be trught to that part is that while there is some similarity between the 4 gospels, the stories aren't carbon copies. they differ, sometimes greatly.
ask any detective or investogator... you have 4 people who are witnesses to one event. you ask each witness to describ the event. if all four tel lthe exact same story, it's a pretty good bet all four are lying their buns off. they spent time getting their stories straight, but stuck to close to the agreed upon story. real people don't see the same thing the same way. one might have noticed the storeis about equality more.. another might have noticed helpign the poor and sick. etc etc..
the disharmony of the gospels is what lets me think there *might* be a spark of truth there.

2 - not compelty, no. because, like above, people see thngs differently form other people. why would i assume that someone else is more wise than i am, when we've had the same opportunies to learn. there are some i respect, even if and when i don't agree with them. i tend to allow they have a greater chance to be right than some others. i won't mention their name, because they are local people. it's a privacy thing... their, you see?
anyway. the why is simple.
what they say makes sense, and the way they say it engenders the benefit of the doubt from me. for example ;
once, while talkign with one, probably the one on the top of the list, and the subject of alcohol came up.. because of a beer commercial, acctually.. and i took the chance and asked ' so.. i've heard it for years... where in the bible does it say alcohol is a sin?" and his answer was ' it doesn't say that. no where does it say that you can't drink alcohol. HOWever, if you take ( and he listed several verses fro mcollective places all over the whole bible, both NT and OT) all of those verses, then it says, to me, that a wise man will stay away form alcohol, because it might cause him to do something stupid he can't take back. it doesn't say alcohol is a sin to any one that drinks it, but to me it means that if i wish to serve god the best i can, then i need to stay away from alcohol.
at no point did he try to tell ME what to do. he told me what HE does and why he does it. even if i don't agree with him, that's a pretty easy way to gain respect from me.... beating people about the head and shoulders with a bronze clad bible will never get respect or save souls.

3 - i don't say i am a christian. i never have. once, not to long ago, i thought i was trying to be one, trying to become a christian, even tho i rejected that label because of the connotation of hipocracy it carries nowdays.
but, at this time when i have serious doubts abotu the truth of abotu 15 % of hte bible and think the other 85% is pure fiction, and a lot of it evil wicked fiction used to subjugate and demonize people and to multiply hate and fear, then i'm pretty sure i can't even pretend i'm a christian, or a christian wannbe, even inside my own head.
right now, i believe in God, the Father and creator of life, the universe and everything.
everything else is still being evaluated at this time.
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,

Is there ANY part of the Bible you believe? If so, which book, part, verse, etc.? And, why that part and not the rest?
The part that said printed in the U.S.A.

Is there ANY pastor, teacher, theologian, etc., that you believe? If so, who -- and why do you believe him?

John Wayne.....Because hes the Duke of something.

If you say you are a Christian -- how did you become a Christian -- and when?

I never said I was a Christian, I saw that movie last year.

Just curious.

No you're not, but you're annoying

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill


God doesn't even believe you mean that, you should stop saying it.


notnegel



ROFLMAO...
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,

Is there ANY part of the Bible you believe? If so, which book, part, verse, etc.? And, why that part and not the rest?

Is there ANY pastor, teacher, theologian, etc., that you believe? If so, who -- and why do you believe him?

If you say you are a Christian -- how did you become a Christian -- and when? Just curious.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

1 - not really. i think that if any of it is true
,

2 - not compelty (sic), no. because, like above, people see thngs (sic) differently form (sic) other people.

3 - i don't say i am a christian. i never have.

Hi Nagel,

Okay, so we have determined that you are not a Christian, that you do not believe the Bible, and that you do not believe anyone who shares God's Word.

With our atheist Friends, they claim to be on the Religion Forum because they believe strongly in their atheist religion and most believe strongly in some version of Evolution. So, they are on a mission to make Science the god of America -- instead of our God. And, they are on a mission to stop the teaching of Creationism or any mention of God, Jesus Christ, or the Bible in schools.

But, what is your reason for being on the Religion Forum? You do not believe in God's Word; you believe only intellectually in God and Jesus Christ -- although you deny all the teaching of why Jesus Christ became the Incarnate God; you do not really believe in Darwinian Evolution and science is not that high on your list. So, Nagel -- just why do you live on the Religion Forum every day -- instead of one of the other Forums?

Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

Okay, so we have determined that you are not a Christian, that you do not believe the Bible, and that you do not believe anyone who shares God's Word.

With our atheist Friends, they claim to be on the Religion Forum because they believe strongly in their atheist religion and most believe strongly in some version of Evolution. So, they are on a mission to make Science the god of America -- instead of our God. And, they are on a mission to stop the teaching of Creationism or any mention of God, Jesus Christ, or the Bible in schools.

But, what is your reason for being on the Religion Forum? You do not believe in God's Word; you believe only intellectually in God and Jesus Christ -- although you deny all the teaching of why Jesus Christ became the Incarnate God; you do not really believe in Darwinian Evolution and science is not that high on your list. So, Nagel -- just why do you live on the Religion Forum every day -- instead of one of the other Forums?

Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


for the most part, the athiests aren't interested in making science ' the god of america'. they just want to keep the unscientifically provable concept of creation out of school. they don't want people to pull out their bibles when they are making new laws or revising old laws for the country, and quite fraknly, i am fully in their corner in that. i don't want religion taught in school.
even if the people of the US went brain dead for one tuesday afternoon and voted in a bill that required christianity to be taught in school... who's version shall we use? certainly not yours. Veep? nope, you'd have a fit. how about the mormons? they claim to be christian, just as strongly as you do.. so shal lwe let them teach the religion class ? how about me? looky looky.. i've just had a revelation.. i'm a believer, i've seen the light.. and i want a job teaching the bible to your children. sound liek a good deal?
that's only one reason i support the idea of keeping religion out of the class room. it's a biggie, but it's only one - who's version of the bible and christianity would we allow to be taught?
except that according to our constitution, that would be tantamount to declaring a national religion. and we can't do that. so it means that ever child would have top be taught about every religion on the planet. how happy will you be finding out al lthe little kids in your sunday school class just spent this last week learning the basics of islam, and next week they will learn all about how to be a satanist. it's a real religion, so it would have to be taught as well.

ok.. end lesson one. why the athiest want god kept out of schools. lesson two, why athiest want god out of goverment.
go to your local library - check out a story called '...if this goes on' by robert a heinlein and it's follow up, 'coventry'. it's a story of how a religious fanatic is elected president, and little by little americans lose all of their rights, in order to prevent heresy, and soon the secret police start rouonding up hereitics and they get 'disappeared'. it's terrifying. even you, bill, would be a heretic, because you admitted freely that you dance. and this guy thought dancing was born of the devil, so you and your wife would be seperated and 'reeducated'.
i dare you to read it, and come back and tell me it seems like a good plan to let religion rule the government.

and, i do spend time in some of the other forums.. tho not often.
i don't often pay attention to the news. it's too depressing.
i tend to avoid politics. politician are all lying scumbags, and they would pimp out their own mother if they thought it would get them votes. ALL politicians, regardless of party. with that said, what do i need to go into the politics forum for... what am i going to say.. " hey.. you realize that (candadate's name) is a lying sleeze, right? and you, you realize that your guy is a sleeze too, right?
it'd get really old really fast.

why am i here?
well, in part because it's fun. i like to see different peoples thoughts on things that are more important than whether or not russelville is gonna go wet this time. granted, the last couple of months it's all be the same lame crapola over and over with the same points being throw out like last nights trash bu the same people who threw em out last time. but it was good and fun and educational in this group at one time. i'm waiting paitiently unti lit is again, and in the mean time i'm entertaining myself a little.

also, i think i'm here becuase i'm still seeking.. trying to define exactly what i believe.. you've helped with that. you've shown me that the bible cannot be the litteral inerrant word of god, because god would not use such hate and fearmongering to try and get his people to love him. you are the reasoon i realized i am not a christian. thanks for that...
i do believe in god.. i have to.. i heard his voice. and if i can't trust the bible, and i don't, then how will i decide what i believe ABOUT god. sure.. ' yeah, he's there' is covered.. but what does he want? what does he NOT want? is it safe to have a porterhouse on friday, or am i really already screwed? Smiler
so i hang otu here.. i learn things. maybe someone learns something form me in return. in not, maybe i supplied someone a new way of thinking about things, or if nothing else, maybe i gave someone a chuckle. i'll settle for that.
at least i know i have you on that last part.. you've been laughing at my typing since day one.
argue? no.. i hate to argue.. how dare you say such a thing. i am not argumentative. or contentious. so there! Smiler
maybe someone in here will say that one thing that will stick in my head and make me realize what it is god wants of me.
maybe i'll get a good recipe for yankee pot roast.
i'm here for the experiance of being here. Hah! top that one.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,
Okay, so we have determined that you are not a Christian,
just why do you live on the Religion Forum every day -- instead of one of the other Forums?
Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious?
Bill


I would like to turn this back at cha, Bill.
Just exactly why do you live on the Religion Forum every day??? Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious???? But, of course, most of us already know the answer.
angle,

every word you write defines you as a defacto diest. i get that you don't seem to like labels but, in this case, it describes you quite succinctly.

"Deism: Deism is the recognition of a universal creative force greater than that demonstrated by mankind, supported by personal observation of laws and designs in nature and the universe, perpetuated and validated by the innate ability of human reason coupled with the rejection of claims made by individuals and organized religions of having received special divine revelation." source
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,
Okay, so we have determined that you are not a Christian, just why do you live on the Religion Forum every day -- instead of one of the other Forums? Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious? Bill

I would like to turn this back at cha, Bill.
Just exactly why do you live on the Religion Forum every day??? Could it be that you just love to argue and be contentious???? But, of course, most of us already know the answer.

Hi Chick,

To you and others to whom the Word of God is anathema -- I suppose me quoting the Bible does sound contentious.

However, to believers and to serious seekers -- it can be a blessing.

Why am I on the Religion Forum daily? Because, if I can be instrumental in helping even one person find salvation in Jesus Christ -- it is worth all the rocks thrown, all the curses and spitting of the non-believers and mockers. So, there you have it!

Get out your rocks and defend YOUR religion!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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God didn't take all of six days to form the world... he took billions of years.

From the Big Bang to the creation of the Solar System, stars coalesced, burned out, exploded, and sent into the Cosmos the stuff of which we are made.

A couple billion years later, life arose here on Earth. Perhaps elsewhere, it will be interesting to know where and when.

There was light before life, unlike the account in Genesis.

The literal Six Day Creation is the worst and most destructive sort of superstition. More and more of us are seeing that, and you don't need my word for it. Seek any science source. Use your common sense. Be real. It's easy.

nsns
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
God didn't take all of six days to form the world... he took billions of years.

From the Big Bang to the creation of the Solar System, stars coalesced, burned out, exploded, and sent into the Cosmos the stuff of which we are made.

A couple billion years later, life arose here on Earth. Perhaps elsewhere, it will be interesting to know where and when. There was light before life, unlike the account in Genesis.

The literal Six Day Creation is the worst and most destructive sort of superstition. More and more of us are seeing that, and you don't need my word for it. Seek any science source. Use your common sense. Be real. It's easy.

LET'S HEAR SOME HALLELUJAHS!! - DEEP NOW BELIEVES IN GOD!! - WHO KNOWS WHERE HE WILL GO FROM HERE -- PRAISE THE LORD!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
angle,

every word you write defines you as a defacto diest. i get that you don't seem to like labels but, in this case, it describes you quite succinctly.

"Deism: Deism is the recognition of a universal creative force greater than that demonstrated by mankind, supported by personal observation of laws and designs in nature and the universe, perpetuated and validated by the innate ability of human reason coupled with the rejection of claims made by individuals and organized religions of having received special divine revelation." source


it's very possible. i followed the link you so kindly proved a couple months ago, and spent a long time there reading a large portion of their website.
there is a significant portion that i don't feel applies to me, but i would esitmate the better part of 3/4 of their ideals DO apply to me.
i dunno if i am Diest.. but i think i'm probably closer to Diest than i am anything else.
your link was very helpful to me, and i thank you deeply for it.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
God didn't take all of six days to form the world... he took billions of years.

From the Big Bang to the creation of the Solar System, stars coalesced, burned out, exploded, and sent into the Cosmos the stuff of which we are made.

A couple billion years later, life arose here on Earth. Perhaps elsewhere, it will be interesting to know where and when. There was light before life, unlike the account in Genesis.

The literal Six Day Creation is the worst and most destructive sort of superstition. More and more of us are seeing that, and you don't need my word for it. Seek any science source. Use your common sense. Be real. It's easy.

LET'S HEAR SOME HALLELUJAHS!! - DEEP NOW BELIEVES IN GOD!! - WHO KNOWS WHERE HE WILL GO FROM HERE -- PRAISE THE LORD!!



yeah.. i knew that was coming.
you were doing so well, bill.. asking and answering questons, haveing a real discussion like a real person... then you have to go right back to doofus mode and post this one.

how very disapointing.
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
The literal Six Day Creation is the worst and most destructive sort of superstition. More and more of us are seeing that, and you don't need my word for it. Seek any science source. Use your common sense. Be real. It's easy.

nsns


ehhh.. i dunno about that.. i do think it's damaging, but worst?

i'd have to take the concept of ' original sin' to be the worst and most destructive things in the bible.. to teach our children that they are inherently evil and wicken from the minute they were born, and no matter how good they are, they can never be good.
is it any wonder why there is so much sadness and hate and fear in the world? is it any surprise that therapists make so much money? it's because we are trained from the begining to believe that no matter what we want to have, we are unworthy, we are wicked, and there is nothing that we can do about it. if we wish to stop being wicked, we must plead to some other guy, the guy who made us wicked to begin with, to let us be clean and worthy, by his will.

it's worse, to me, than the bible seemingly condoning slaverly.
with slavery, each instance affects two people - the slave and the slave owner.

original sin affects everyone.
original sin causes the victim to lock the slave chains on themselves, and fight anyone who tries to set them free.
slavery puts chains around ankles and wrists, original sin puts chains in the heart and minds.

original sin even affects athiests and, appearently Diests Smiler, even when we don't buy into OS ourselves.. because every one around us is going to fight back because they KNOW they are unworthy, they KNOW they are sinners, they KNOW they are wicked, and the only way they can be saved is by begging forgivness form the entity who made them evil wicked sinners in the first place.

talk about racketeering. talk about paying the danegeld.

hey.. you.. pssst.. commere... yeah.. look.. you're evil, right.. yeah.. cause i said so, that's why... yeah.. evil and wicked.... so.. tell me i'm god, and gimmie fifty bucks, and you'll be ok...

a doctoer gives you a new medicine... only the medicine changes your body chemistry.. and now you must take another medicine to counter the changes or you feel horrible and sick. so the doctor charges you an arm and a leg for the 2nd medicine, and demands you to write a formal thank you note delivered on your knees every week. if you don't, he withholds the meds, even if you've already paid.

i could go on and on but i won't. now i'm in a pisspoor mood, and i'm out of rum.
/sigh.

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