Sure thing!

Often, folks think "motor coach" and immediately associate it with luxury.

Luxury is associated with money, no doubt.

However, the disconnect comes with the details.

Many completely ignore them, or forget even the most fundamental parts of them.

Again, no problem!

Glad to give a brief explanation.
I don't know Jim Bevis (don't trust "ministries" period) I didn't know Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and I don't want to and hope to never run into Jerry Falwell. The song just went through my head "what if God was one of us, just a slob riding on a bus" I wonder what Jesus Christ and all other prophets would think of what has been done and is being done (take Mohammad for instance) with their inspirations. Something has gone wrong it seems like to me.
MADDOG, I don't go to a million dollar church but I do go to a one with people with million dollar hearts. They are the most loving bunch I've ever encountered. Please don't base your conclusions on Tammy Faye Crier or on what one man said he was told by one church. For that matter, & don't get mad at me, but since you were not there to hear it yourself, you don't know what this church said to him. This is not the case with the guy you mentioned, but it's also difficult for churches to know who really needs help and who is supplementing a good case of lazy. This is another reason many churches opt to give through the Help Center.

Just so I'm clear to everyone...I don't remember Lorene (whatever her name is) & could care less if there is a section of the paper for religion. I see articles all the time about good things being done in our area. I don't think I'd like it all crammed into one section of the paper anyway.
quote:
Some individuals go from church to church getting help

real "christian perspective" as grandmother used to say: "Nuff Said". You just supported my whole text in this post. Can I give a humble suggestion? Quit listening to your million dollar church preacher and read the book and listen to the accounts by the authors! It is too bad Jesus Christ himself never left a personal testimony, but I stand by my interpretation of the 4 gospels. All basically were about helping others and self denial, something obviously lost on "million" dollat churches, no matter what crumbs they through the poor. As the old blues song goes as originally performed by Billie Holliday: "Rich relations, may through a crumb or such, you can help yourself but don't help too much"
That is exactly what your post sounds like!
MADDOG...I don't know how to say this but just to say it bluntly. I think perhaps you'd have found something to criticize in her post no matter what she shared about her church. I get the feeling you have had a really bad experience. Nobody but Jesus can live up to standards you feel are necessary to be declared a real Christian. None of us are perfect. I'm very very far from it and the closer I get to God, the further I know I am from it. I strive to be like Christ, but I screw it up every day. God is okay with that because He knows I'm trying. I think this lady is trying too.
Thanks Joy!

Maddog: Why are you so mad? You missed my point. WE are trying to work smarter to help more people! Working together is always better for everyone. I read the gospels and dont just take the word of a pastor...any pastor! I know what the book said and if you read it you know we all fall short! But we should never quit trying! We have not stopped trying to help people.
We all know the reason for the original question. The TD is owned by the NYT and take their marching orders from them. The mainstream media hate God and anything to do with religion and will do what it takes to keep moving us toward the end times and an anti-christian nation. Merry CHRISTmas everyone.
well inthered, I have to humbly disagree and give MY take on the reason for the post. Some "ministrie" trying to promote itself so it could buy a motorhome! And while I don't always agree with the TD or the NYT, this is one case where I think someone finally realized this was just a "promotions" feature, but I GAURANTEE you if these "ministries" want to PAY for advertising: the TD and NYT will print full page advertisements!
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
well inthered, I have to humbly disagree and give MY take on the reason for the post. Some "ministrie" trying to promote itself so it could buy a motorhome! And while I don't always agree with the TD or the NYT, this is one case where I think someone finally realized this was just a "promotions" feature, but I GAURANTEE you if these "ministries" want to PAY for advertising: the TD and NYT will print full page advertisements!

Mad dog it seems that you are really upset and have been hurt by the church. I will not try to defend it. We have failed people misreably. You don't have to look very far to see that. God's word was very clear as to giving. And the actual church of the old (paul and peter's day) sold all they had giving to all generously so that no one was in need and all had everything in common. It seems that the church of today is more interested in sucess for themselves and having the biggest and the best. That is not how it should be, no one should be taking a 250k salary a year and begging people to give... But they do it. All I can say, is that I am a memeber of a church and why it is not perfect and neither am I, we try. The church as a whole needs to change, but only God can do that. I know since I have moved to this area I have became more cynical then ever as I to have saw what you see. There is a stark contrast between the poor and rich. They sit together at church one w/ a 50k auto while the other walking to church and then we wonder why people do not come or want anything to do with God.There is also a difference between being relegious and knowing Christ, and I see alot of relegion in this area. But I have also found this, I am not better than anyone else and therefor I can not judge other peoples hearts. I do not have a lot, and there is a church that helps us out every month and it's not the one I attend. So take heart they are out their, those who really care and give amongst all the ones that are after the bigger and better. I try to give what I can also, I realize now that when I had a better income I could of given more and didn't. I know if that ever change I will. We sometimes don't realize how much we have until we don't have it. I am sure we could all give more to help other if we cared to. I hope the message helps. I hope the church has not hurt you so badly that you will forever shun it. No matter what, please know there are people out their who really do care and are trying to help others. Some are Christian who attend church faithfully others just have a heart for people. Regardless of who they are or where they are at along life's road only God knows the heart and he alone ways the motives of man.
why do people have to continue to beat this subject? Times Daily is a NEWSPAPER.
maybe i am crazy,but the absence of the advertising for the churches does not offend me or upset me in anyway and i have trouble understanding WHY it is so upsetting to others. If you do not like the fact they do not have this one particular section,it IS your right to never read TD,purchase the TD,or for that fact even participate on these forums provided BY the TD.
Why can people not be satisfied that we STILL have the freedom to worship? If a religous section of a newspaper is so important,why doesn't someone begin publishing one for the Shoals area?
I think the Religious section should continue and if there is a problem, the problem should be address in a matter that wouldn't offend anyone or make anyone feel ill at ease. I love God and I can handle anything that comes except being rejection by my sister's and brother's for not rejecting people who need help.
I hope the motorhome will be used for Religious purposes and that people will see that they the ministers need to travel with their families and be close together. So in a good way a motorhome would be perfect, to preach the Gospel everywhere and still have a place to sleep. Have you seen the price of Hotel and food let's give them a hand and not a diss.
hey everyone jumps maddog for his/her opnions on religous matters,but in all honesty can you 100% say he/she is wrong? maybe a weee bit extreme but the observations of what is happening to modern society christian worship is not that far off base.
Smurph, I just do not like generalizations. What an evangelist or a church does (or does not do) does not equate churches and/or evangelists as a whole. When you are aware of what your church is doing for others, NOT to be put in the paper (could care less about that), but because they care, it's hard to hear someone say churches don't care. I know for certain that is just not true. I feel a little uncomfortable giving a list of things I see done every day in this thread because some will see it as bragging and that's NOT the intent. You don't give to others for a pat on the back or to feel good, although it does feel good. You give because you see someone in need or in pain and your heart goes out to them. You just want to do something, anything to help.
Wow, never would I have believed my question would have caused so much discussion and take off on so many rabbit trails. It seems that all of those wounded by the church and those with bitterness toward God's people have gotten together and had a party around this subject. I still believe the Times Daily needs a "real" Life section that centers around life in Jesus Christ and the spread of His kingdom. Regarding the RV, we didn't get it. Maybe we never will but regardless of whether we do or know, we will go on, as His servants, sharing hope and encouragement with all who will listen. May the Father of grace and mercy, bless you all.
[ I still believe the Times Daily needs a "real" Life section that centers around life in Jesus Christ and the spread of His kingdom.] just posted. The TD religous section was nothing more than an advertizins section.for churches,we already discussed that.

AND this;
[and those with bitterness toward God's people have gotten together and had a party around this subject]
sort of a judgemental comment isn't it? wasn't the original post made for discussion, or were you seeking followers for yourself to bombard the TD for ya to get your weekly pic back in the paper?
btw,just a curious question here. Where did the monies that were donated FOR the RV go, was it returned to the donors,was there a vote by the doners how it should be spent since the RV was not purchased?I ask this because to request donations on a website i feel sure there were other methods avenues for donations and also feel sure there were some monies donated to this.
Mr,Bevis,I along with Smurph hate to respond to this post,even after S.L. gave you somewhat of an indorsement of your good deeds and so forth. But after all this time has passed and you still don't have your moterhome,I must ask myself,If Jesus made his many trips, one foot,knowing that the Lord would provide his needs. The moterhome, seems to fail the test in the need to go and preach the Bible. If one has real faith they should know the Lord will provide.
Should a preacher have a preacher?

In other words, who ministers to the minister?

Do not ministers need ministers?

Why, even the Pope has a preacher!

With many independent churches, that is, ones not part of a hierarchical structure such as the Episcopal or Methodist traditions, where Bishops are the overseers of large areas, the pastors are often forgotten. Frequently, they "go it alone."

That's not good.

Humans weren't meant to "go it alone."

As in the Scripture, where "mercy and truth have met each other; righteousness and peace have kised each other" in many online forums, Cynicism and Ignorance have met each other; Resentment and Vitriol have kissed each other.
hmmm, i have to disagree with you on this one Sl,,to a point. We are speaking of this single thread here on these forums aren't we?
Granted maddog does have some really strong opnions,but why was he not addressed? Maybe he is in need of guidence to help him overcome such strong feelings/opnions?
What I saw in this tread from the very beginning post by Mr Bevis was ;
[Posted 09 December 2006 07:03 PM
I am concerned that the Times Daily has eliminated the Faith/Religious Section in it's Saturday paper. The religious heritage of the Shoals community is strong and vibrant. Why has the Times Daily decided to disregard this.]

he is addressing the religous heritage of the Shoals community,and by his opnion the Times Daily has disreguarded. It was discussed by many,some negative opnions,some very positive,but it WAS discussed. Is that not the purpose of a message forum?
Then he returns to post this;
[Wow, never would I have believed my question would have caused so much discussion and take off on so many rabbit trails. It seems that all of those wounded by the church and those with bitterness toward God's people have gotten together and had a party around this subject. I still believe the Times Daily needs a "real" Life section that centers around life in Jesus Christ and the spread of His kingdom. Regarding the RV, we didn't get it. Maybe we never will but regardless of whether we do or know, we will go on, as His servants, sharing hope and encouragement with all who will listen. May the Father of grace and mercy, bless you all.]

now what is it exactly that Mr Bevis is seeking from this thread? he wanted the religous section to celebrate the Shoals religous heritage as stated in his first post. Then returns to pass judgement on the nay sayers,but in the same post says he will continue on as His servant.
he totally ignored answering my question as to what happened to the monies collected for the RV, was there a deadline to purchase this? I see the plea for donations is still up on the website.
For "Small Talker" and anyone else who is concerned, no monies have been collected toward the purchase of a ministry motor home. Should funds be designated for that purpose, they will be earmarked and used only for the RV. The Ministry of Encouragement to pastors and ministers does not depend on the motorhome although it would help us in getting the word out. Thus far, we have visited over 250 ministers and pastors in their churches...by His grace, we will continue to do so. There was no deadline for the purchase. We would do so only if the money comes in. It has not.

One more comment regarding the demise of the religious page in the Times Daily. My problem is not that we no longer have a weekly section called Religion or Faith. Actually, I prefer a section reporting the news of the Shoals community of faith, called LIFE. Because that is what it is.LIFE is a great caption. Faith is an important component of the LIFE of any community, especially the Shoals. Why is it being minimized by the TD in our community?
As for religion, I go to church myself, but I am greatly dissapointed in some of the things that the churches do.
Things are worse in this country,than a lot of people think,and there are a lot of people that need help,morally and financially. You can drive around day after day and see it if you will just look for it. It says in the bible that whatsoever you do for the least of them, that you do for me also.
When I was a kid the churches used to go to see people,ask them if they could help them, and try to get then to go to church. A lot of them don`t seem to want to do this anymore.
If it is a rich guy,that makes a big donation on Sundays,they will go to see him to see why he hasn`t shown up, but a lot of them forget about their poor brothers. I also do not understand why most of them want to spend so much money overseas, when there is so much to do here. I am not saying they should stop missionary work,but they should do something here also.
We have places in Kentucky and West Virginia that will almost compare to some of the places overseas. People in those places are going hungry,and they also don`t have enough food to eat.
All a lot of the churches seem to want to do today, is build larger and larger buildings.
They think , well the Baptist`s building seats 500 people, were going to build one that seats 750. There is nothing wrong with having a nice place to worship, but I think that they are carrying this to far.It says in the bible that wherever two or more are gathered together in my name, there will I be also.
All of us in this country need to examine ourselves, I think that there is a lot more that I, and everyone can do, to help our fellow man, and that we should all try to treat everyone, the way that we would want someone to treat us, if we were in the same situation. This is the richest nation in the world,and there is no excuse for some of the things that are going on in this country today.
I am not rich, I am just a middle class working man, but if I can help someone along the way,I will try my best to. I don`t have a lot of money to donate to organizations,but I always try to donate to the Salvation Army. I try to give them some when I can. I think that they are sincere and are really trying to help people. I guess if I had enough to donate to someone else, it would be Feed The Children.
Nuff said.
Merry Christmas
I know that many are hurt by Christians...I am truly Sorry! Maddog, I especially want to apoligize to you. You have had a bad experience with my church. Religion section or not, Christians or Not, rich or poor...I feel deeply for those who are failed. Jesus will never fail you but people will all the time. I know how it feels to be hurt. The only hope I have is Christ! Again, I am sorry you have been hurt too!
I too go to church and my relationship with God is the most important part of my life. All of which is why i have a problem with whatever Mr Bevis is/was attempting to achieve in this thread.
Whether or not the Times Daily has a religous section is no bearing to my faith, it will not weaken because TD has chosen to eliminate it,nor did i ever see anything in it that actually fed my faith or enhanced it . The section was filled each week with advertisements for churches,who did what great deeds,who went where, who planed to do what, etc. Rarely was there ever any articles of actual teachings, or faith experience articles.
We do not need a religous brag board. What the area possibly needs is faith based newsletter, where all churches can list their service times, special group meetings, services they offer to the community. Some REAL stories and articles of faith and praise to our Lord.We need to read uplifting things of Gods wonderous powers to touch lives and changes lives, His unconditional love for all mankind. And no not stories of how many souls ole so-and-so saved on what trip to where,,,for they saved no ones soul,only God has that power, we are simply tools to spread His word and introduce His teachings. And each and every one of us claiming to be christians have an obligation to our Lord to help build His kingdom up. Vanity in ones own work has no place.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
hey go check out the website
http://www.csrministries.org/

did not see anything TEACHING, or glorifying God, but a WHOLE LOTTA glorifying members of the group,little mentioned about God

oh and you will notice on the front page they are presently taking donations for athe purchase of a motor home,LOL,LOL,LOL


I had to look also, I found the store where things are sold.. I found a lot of things that didn't make me even think it was a Christian site, just glorifying people, like smuph said.

Church=Building.. REAL CHURCH=What is in ones's heart, what one does for others, how one worships God in their minds and hearts, and that, in my opinion does NOT mean a 5 million dollar building. I just cannot wrap my brain around that,...

How many poor people, needy children could that money have gone to instead of a building? Matters NOT what the building looks like, matters not what it cost, matters not if the sidwalks are paved, or the lawn has thousands of dollars worth of landscaping. What matters to ME is that the money spent building that Empire that I am speaking of, COULD have actually gone to doing God's work.

God's work never included competeing to see whose Church is bigger and better.

And Preachers, no matter what anyone says, are merely men, human beings, just as we all are. I have been to organized religious Churches, and there is only one small one that I ever felt comfortable with. The Preacher there didn't get one single penny for the Services he rendered, he had a full time job, and a full time Ministry. And every penny that the Church took in went for helping poor, needy people, older people buy their medicine that without it would kill them, and all sorts of glorious deeds.

Never will I go anywhere again that has huge buildings, sculptured lawns, and sidewalks... THAT in and of itself speaks volumes on what goes on... Seen it firsthand.

I love God with all my heart, and the good thing is that HE knows it!!! That is more important to me than huge buildings with youth groups that have to actually PAY to have an afternoon with the preachers wife.. go figure..

Anyway, I am only 2 pages into reading this, and I just had to add a couple of cents to the conversation.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
quote:
Some individuals go from church to church getting help

real "christian perspective" as grandmother used to say: "Nuff Said". You just supported my whole text in this post. Can I give a humble suggestion? Quit listening to your million dollar church preacher and read the book and listen to the accounts by the authors! It is too bad Jesus Christ himself never left a personal testimony, but I stand by my interpretation of the 4 gospels. All basically were about helping others and self denial, something obviously lost on "million" dollat churches, no matter what crumbs they through the poor. As the old blues song goes as originally performed by Billie Holliday: "Rich relations, may through a crumb or such, you can help yourself but don't help too much"
That is exactly what your post sounds like!



Amen brother... Amen!
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
I hate to respond to this because it just puts it at the top of the section: As Smurph stated: ENOUGH ALREADY! Let's just let this stupid thread go onto post heaven or hell whichever I don't care so long as it GOES AWAY!


Ooops, Sorry! I just saw this, and I will not reply again.. I agree with you and smurph here.
I would agree with letting it die if that is the will of the people.

I think I have accomplished what I set out to do - raise the level of awareness as to the lack of coverage being given by the Times Daily to the religious community.

I would invite all of you who are interested to visit the CSR website (www.csrministries.org)
If you look closely, you will see:
1. We have many teaching articles on our
website.
2. We own no buildings nor do we pay any
big salaries. We do NOT have a motor
home nor have we received any funds for
this project. By this, we believe God has
spoken.
3. We are committed to the ministry of
encouragement.
May all of you find the pardon, peace and purpose that only Jesus Christ can give!
Mr. Bevis, sometimes you have to knock the dust off your feet and move on. Some of these guys refuse to believe that God is doing great things through area churches. They believe that churches are full of hypocrites that only do something Christlike if they get recognition for it. This is probably true in some cases, but it is not something I see regularly myself. Several people have tried to tell them these are the exception not the rule, but they will not believe it. SO, let go and let God. I pray God blesses you, your church and (somebody hold onto MADDOG) your ministry.
Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because they had big scissors!

Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because the needed more advertising space.

Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because they hate religion.

Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because the could.

Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because they're a bunch of atheists.

Q: Why did the Times Daily cut out the Religious Section?

A: Because the front page was first.

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