Why do people say when others pass away R.I.P

Hi Dinosaur,

RIP is a generic statement folks can make when one is not sure if the person who passed is a Christian believer or not.   You suggest saying, "Until we meet again."    That may or may not be true.

I have always like what my senior pastor, who led me to the Lord in 1987, says as funerals.  I have attended a number of funerals where he has officiated, including his mother, his brother-in-law, other family members, and friends from our churches.  If it is the funeral of a Christian believer, he will always tell us, of the deceased, "___________ is a Christian.  So, if you are also a Christian believer, you will not say 'Good bye' to this loved one -- you will only say, 'Good night, I will see you on that glorious Resurrection Morning."

And, he continues, "But, if you are not a believer -- you must say 'Good bye' now -- for you will not see this loved one again."

However, he then goes on to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- and how those who are not yet believers can turn from following the world, turn to follow Jesus Christ, and become Christian believers.  Then, he tells us, when you become a believer, as ___________ was a believer -- then, you can look forward to also meeting this loved one again in heaven.  It is no longer "Good bye" -- but, only "Good night."

But, if he is asked to officiate at the funeral of a non-believer -- he cannot say this.   The only thing he can do is to share the Gospel and let folks know that they need to have a "saving" relationship with Jesus Christ.

One of the best places to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ is at a funeral or memorial service -- for that is when we are most aware of our own mortality and the briefness of life.  

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

There's no guarantee that you'll see each other again even if you both are allegedly Christians.  As the Bible says, the path is narrow and I'm sure there's plenty of people who think they were on it but really weren't, especially those who just think once they are baptized that's all they need to do. The bottom line is I think it really shows what type of a person you are if you can just easily say that these people are going to heaven and these others are going to hell.  It's not your call.

Why people say it depends on the person saying it. Some people have had such a rough life, sickness, abuse, whatever, that when they die some say that person can now, finally, rest in peace. Long ago too, when people were very superstitious, some said R.I.P. to "insure" that person's spirit didn't "come back" and haunt or bother someone, or just wander the earth sad and lonely. 

I hate the term RIP. They don't know if that person will be resting in peace or not, even if he/she claimed to be a Christian.

Matthew says that many will say (I'm paraphrasing here) Lord, Lord, we have prophesied in your name, in your name we have cast out devils, and in your name have done many works. And He will tell them, I never knew you: depart from me. It also says that many are called, but few are chosen.

Those that scream look at me, I'm a Christian, I wouldn't trust as far as I could spit. If a person is truly a Christian, it will show. You will see/hear it in their manner of talking/acting.

Just because people say they're a Christian doesn't make them a Christian.

I have told my family that I want just a graveside service. No preaching or telling people they need to be saved. It's real enough to them that I'm going to Hell. They don't need a preacher reminding them of that fact on a day that will be very painful for them.

Why would you be so accepting that you're going to Hell when you have every chance now to change that?

Hell is the Times Daily religion forum.

________

I love it!   

Theres no hell, or heaven, no resting of any kind, just the end of living, power switch on permanenct off position, no feelings, just the end of the line, battery out of juice. death is for the living to cry, and worry about, the dead dont give a "rip".

 Originally Posted by JK Hawk:

fish you seem so sure.

______

What's the picture of above your ID? Is it what it looks like?

what the what? Lol look at the paranoia buffalo and ono have in common cause of religious delusion. Funny old people!!!

so you still have a sense of taste at your age???

Excrement is distateful to people of ALL ages.

_______

O No isn't old by any means.

I assume vega is referring to goldfish that used to be on this forum? If you are, .

When I came on the TD Forums in January 2007, Fish and Deep were the resident atheists who were my reason for participating in my first forum.  For years I read the TimesDaily online, but never would venture into the chat rooms and forums because I do not like "spitting contests."  But, on that day, while reading the TimesDaily, I saw a discussion on the Forums titled "What Is A Christian?"

This got my attention because I know that Alabama is the "belt buckle" of the Bible Belt.  When I opened that discussion -- all I saw was Deep and Fish denigrating God, Christians, the Bible, and everything related.  There were a few Christians here then, Joy was here, and a few others.  But, the Forums were being dominated by Deep and Fish.  So, I came in to add my voice in defense of our Christian faith.

Fish was here for several years, much nastier than Deep.  Fish is the one who tried to send an e-mail to my wife pretending to be a woman I had met at a computer conference (but, he was dumb in two respects -- first, he sent it to my e-mail address -- and second, he did not know that my wife went with me to all of the computer conferences.  Those were our mini honeymoons) -- and who went on the internet, found my photo, and tried to use it as his avatar.  Of course, the TD Mods always straightened him out in all the games he played.  But, while Deep was just an avid atheist -- Fish was a nasty, vicious atheist.

Several times local people asked to meet with Fish over coffee to discuss their different opinions.  But, Fish always refused -- saying that he was interested in getting into local politics and did not want his atheism to hinder that.   Well, he finally made it into local politics -- and, personally, I am concerned about the harm he could do, and most likely is doing, to young people in the area.   But, he was voted in by people who, I suppose, did not know he was hiding his atheism -- until he could get into a position to use it.

Like Vega, I have often suspected that Fish was sneaking back onto the Forums under different pseudonyms -- for he was too much an atheist to stay out.   And, Gnu's avatar does remind me very much of Fish's attitude. 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Like Vega, I have often suspected that Fish was sneaking back onto the Forums under different pseudonyms -- for he was too much an atheist to stay out.   And, Gnu's avatar does remind me very much of Fish's attitude. 

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"Sneaking back"? So you don't think he has as much right to be here as you? What does his being an atheist have to do with it? You're pretty nasty yourself pal, and IF you'd been reported for a few of your posts you'd probably be "sneaking back" under one of your other IDs. Funny too, you mention vega. You know he's been here under countless IDs, you know how nasty he is, but you lick his hand when he tosses you a crumb.

Several times local people asked to meet with Fish over coffee to discuss their different opinions.  But, Fish always refused -- saying that he was interested in getting into local politics and did not want his atheism to hinder that.   Well, he finally made it into local politics -- and, personally, I am concerned about the harm he could do, and most likely is doing, to young people in the area.   But, he was voted in by people who, I suppose, did not know he was hiding his atheism -- until he could get into a position to use it.

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He sounds like a smart man to me. It isn't good to let some people in on your personal business. There are too many that like to stick their noses in where it doesn't belong. The politics in his town/state are none of your business. Because he's an atheist means nothing, and you're getting close to going over the line by saying you are "concerned about "the harm" he could do, and most likely is doing, to young people in the area". Then you wonder why people despise you.

Hi dinosaur,

Your "until we meet again" is perfect! The next time we meet again it will be under much better circumstances.

Isa 25:8  He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off ALL FACES; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

My grandma taught me that, and she always said "everyone is going to Heaven".

Peace,

gdriggs

www.bible-truths.com

"Gnu's avatar does remind me very much of Fish's attitude." ***? http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html Any more super paraniod xtians??? you guys are a crazy riot. The xtian elderly embarass themselves so much and they dont even know it. you guys think Ima politician?? lol Hi semianualchick but I don't know who goldfish is and its not me.

initials are banned here? *** means what the frick btw.

Hi Chick,

You wrote, "I have told my family that I want just a graveside service.  No preaching or telling people they need to be saved. It's real enough to them that I'm going to Hell.  They don't need a preacher reminding them of that fact on a day that will be very painful for them."

And, JK Hawk asked you, "Why would you be so accepting that you're going to Hell -- when you have every chance now to change that?"

You answer Hawk, "Why would I want to?  Walk the straight & narrow & hope I'm doing it right, hope I'm in the "right" church, (evidently there's some folks in the wrong one) got to act a certain way.....the list goes on & on."

Chick, no one is saved by "any" church -- nor by "any" pastor -- nor by "any" Christian believer.  All any of us can do is to point you toward Jesus Christ.

The only way you, or anyone else, can be saved is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  No one can do this for you.  As we are told in Revelation 3:20, He is standing at the door of your heart, waiting for you to open the door and invite Him to come in.  He cannot open that door.  Only you can.  But, He does promise that if YOU will open your heart to Him -- He WILL come in and be your Best Friend -- give you eternal life.

So, please, my Friend -- do not say that you want to go to hell because you do not like some Christians.  Even fellowship with Christians you do not like -- is much better than existing with those who live eternally in hell.

In his book "Know What You Believe, A Practical Discussion Of The Fundamentals Of The Christian Faith" Paul E. Little tells us of hell (page 147):

The final destiny of the wicked is hell.  This awesome place is described in various ways.  It is a place or state of unquenchable (Mark 9:43) and everlasting (Matt. 25:41) fire.  It is spoken of as a lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 20:10).  That figurative language is used in these descriptions may be indicated by the fact that death and hell will be cast into it.

Hell is conceived of as outer darkness (Matt. 8:12).  It is described as a place of eternal torment and punishment (Rev. 14:10, 11).  If figurative language is involved, it is obviously symbolic of something so awful, no one in his right mind could be indifferent to avoiding it.  Hell “is the loss of all good, whether physical or spiritual, and the misery of an evil conscience banished from God and the society of the holy and dwelling under God’s positive curse forever.” (55)

Nowhere in Scripture is there any trace of the idea that hell is a kind of “Jolly Boys’ Club,” absence from which would cause us to miss our friends. This flippant notion is Satan’s lie.  Hell is “the blackness of darkness forever” (Jude 13)  – utter aloneness.  C. S. Lewis once spoke of hell as “nothing but yourself for all eternity”!  This is not the whole truth about hell, but it describes one of its most hideous aspects.

And, in the same book, Little describes heaven (page 148):

The final destiny of the righteous is heaven.  Heaven is most simply defined as where God is.  It is a place of rest (Heb. 4:9), of glory (2 Cor. 4:17), of holiness (Rev. 21:27), of worship (Rev. 19:1), of fellowship with others (Heb. 12:23), and of being with God (Rev. 21:3).  He “shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away” (Rev. 21:4).

Believers may receive one or more crowns – the crown of life (James 1:12), the crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4), and the crown of righteousness (2 Tim. 4:8).  Those who have been won for Christ through our witness become our crown of rejoicing (1 Thes. 2:19).

Everything in heaven will be new: “The earth also, and the works that are therein, shall be burned up….Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:10, 13).  John reports that he “saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea. And I…saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven….And they shall reign forever and ever” (Rev. 21:1,2; 22:5).

Given these descriptions of heaven and hell, which agree with what Jesus tells us in Luke 16:19-31, His story of Lazarus and the rich man -- can you honestly say that you PREFER to spend eternity in hell?

Chick, you may not be sure in your mind about God, about the Bible, or about heaven and hell.  But, from your past writings -- it is obvious that you cannot say they are not true.  So, why gamble on heaven and hell?  

If someone offers you two glasses of clear liquid to drink -- and tells you, "Glass A might contain clear fresh water.  Glass B does contain ****nic" -- would you ever purposely choose to drink from Glass B?   No, you would not.  And, I am quite sure you would not want your family and loved ones to do that either.  So, why would you, when you can choose to drink from Glass A, i.e., heaven -- not make that choice?

Then, Chick, you tell Hawk, "The Bible is abundantly clear that not all are going to Heaven.  So I do all that Christan/church stuff, just to find out at the end that I wasn't doing it right anyway, & on top of that, I was in the wrong church?"

True, if you only "do Christian/church stuff" there is a good chance you have not become a Christian believer and will not have eternal life in Christ.   And, you ask, "I was in the wrong church?"  No one is saved by any church organization.

Are there right and wrong churches?  Yes.  If one is in a church which denies the deity of Jesus Christ; that is a wrong church.   But, if one is in a Christ-centered, Bible-teaching church -- odds are very good that this is a "right" church, not a wrong one.   But, even in those, there will be people who are aggravating, who are not really Christian, who will try to mislead you.  But, keep in mind -- it is not the church, nor the people, nor the pastor who saves us.

The only way we are saved is by having a saving personal relationship with Jesus Christ (John 14:6).  And, since He is love, that is easy to do.

Finally, you declare, "Besides, according to Bill's OSAS (Once Save, Always Saved) theory, I'm still saved & going to Heaven anyway."

That is true -- IF you were saved.  If a person is a true believer, Jesus has told us, "He who believes HAS eternal life"  (John 6:47).  Notice that He does not say, "could have eternal life" nor "will have eternal life IF" nor even "will have eternal life WHEN."   No, He tells us clearly, "He who believes HAS eternal life."  

He also tells us, in John 10:28-29, that NO ONE (and that includes the saved person himself/herself) can snatch the believer from His hands, nor from the Father's hands.   That, my Friend, IS eternal security.  With His promise we can KNOW that we are saved, have eternal life, and will spend eternity in the presence of God.

So, why would you, or anyone else, choose to not have this eternal blessing?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I hate to be the one to give you bad news -- but, grandma was wrong!  And, so is L. Ray Smith, the Unitarian Universalist church, the New Age Urantia Book, and all your other cult friends. 

You conveniently forgot to mention that before Revelation 21:4, we must take a look at Revelation 20:11-15:

Revelation 20:11-15, "Then I saw a great white throne (the judgment of non-believers) and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the second death, the lake of fire.  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

And, AFTER that Great White Throne Judgment -- when the only ones left standing are the believers; we have Revelation 21:4, "And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

He tells us this as He ushers all believers into eternity in the presence of God.  However, all the non-believers are in an eternity that no sane person would want -- eternity in hell.

So, GD, you just keep reading all your cult and New Age Urantia stuff; you keep believing that EVERYONE will go to heaven -- until you realize that you have missed the boat completely.   You may choose that for yourself -- but, I will keep telling folks the truth so that they can make their own eternal choice.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

That may be true -- but, like the choice of heaven and hell --  to be on the Religion Forum or to not be on the Religion Forum -- IS ALSO A CHOICE!  But, there is an eternal difference in the consequences!  Isn't it fantastic that God has given all of us the gift of free will?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, "[I]t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." And in Revelation 14:11, we read: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." 

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few" (Matt. 7:13–14). 

Get over yourself, Bill! Why would I listen to you, a hypocrite, whom is also a wolf in sheep's clothing?

So when we pass away do we just lye in the grave and wait for the resurrection, or do we go to heaven at the moment of death?  And if we don't go to heaven until the resurrection, how does those that have been cremated that have no grave get there, since they were not put into a grave?  Christians have faith and hope that when they pass away that they are going to heaven, but wasn't there something said about rich people not being able to go?   Was there not something written about giving up your posssessions and following Christ?

And to the atheist, how to you know if there is not a heaven or hell and what cause you to believe the way that you do?

And Bill, there is something in the last book of the Bilble that warns us to be very careful what we quote about it, if I am not mistaken.

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I can't speak for the other atheists, but I don't believe in magic and myths. There are much better ways to explain the way things work using easily visible, verifiable facts and evidence.

I don't believe in heaven or hell because I understand the process of death. I learned it because it's eventually going to happen to me.  I don't believe that I'm somehow more 'special' than anybody else and that the universe was created for and revolves around me as christians like to think.

I don't believe any of that religious hocus-pocus because it is, as Spock would say-"highly illogical."

I have been created by my parents-following a well-documented biological process, I'm going to live the best way I can (and have as much fun as I can in the process), and then I'm eventually gonna get too old and worn out to continue and then I'll die. I personally want to be burned, as I don't want my useless, rotting carcass to contribute to the pollution problem that already exists and I don't want it wasting space on land that could be used for something that would benefit the living.

I don't want my remaining relatives to have to spend their hard-earned money buying what basically amounts to a ridiculously priced hole in the ground in which to dispose of the trash my body will become.  All that burial ceremony crap is just stuff to try and make the living deal with the loss.

It'll have no bearing on me. I'll be dead. 

Ashes are much easier and cheaper to dispose of. Much more sanitary as well.

It won't bother me.  I won't feel a thing.

I figure if I spend my life worrying about dying, then living won't be much fun.

Dinosaur, if you read the passage about it being harder for a rich person to get to Heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle you will see that the rich man who asked Jesus was UNWILLING to give up his riches. It doesn't mean a rich person CAN'T go to Heaven, it's just saying that most rich people are unwilling to put Jesus first. They are just so attatched to their wealth and their "stuff" that they condemn THEMSELVES.

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Well, that and the church could 'really use the money.'  

Of COURSE they wrote THAT rule in....

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:

Yep, "give us all that old nasty money that's keeping you out of heaven. We'll do something constructive with it like building monster churches while we "relieve" more people of their "burden" of wealth.

Well, considering there WAS no church yet when Jesus spoke these words, I don't think you could possibly have it right.

Instead, picture those "monkey traps" - you know, the ones where they put a banana inside but the opening isn't large enough for the monkey to pull the banana out. And even when they see the captor coming to put them in a cage, they won't let go. They lose their freedom all for the sake of a banana. Or should I say their greed for that banana.

THAT is what Jesus was talking about.

Has nothing to do with what jesus might have said, it's about what the churches say now.

That may be what YOU are talking about, but it is NOT what Dinosaur was asking about, nor was I talking about that in my answer to Dinosaur.