Why do we need another Walmart

I would be interested to hear how they are going to run businesses out of work there?  If a driving distance of three or four miles is not making a difference how will this changes things?  What will they offer there that isn ot currently being offered?

My guess is that they see the writing on the wall in their current location.  A similar thing happened in Meridian years ago.  The former store is now closed and the newer store has a ton of new businesses which have opened up around it.  My guess is that they probably give these large stores a limited lifespan and after the buildings lose their tax write-offs it is time to invest in newer buildings. 

The relevant question is not, "Why do we need another Walmart?" The question is whether and why Walmart has made a business decision to build a new Walmart at the Cloverdale Road site?

 

Most of the citizens of this area are politically conservative and consider themselves to be proponents of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.  Well, all you free market fans, Walmart happens to be a big player in the realm of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM --one of the very biggest, in fact.

 

It should naturally follow that the business decisions of Walmart are their own, independent decisions, based on their assessment of market conditions and the related prospects for MAKING MONEY within the  FREE MARKET, CAPITALIST SYSTEM so especially revered by those on the right.

 

A FREE MARKET CAPITALIST SYSTEM is based on competition and profit.  The success or failure of participants in the system is a function of their skills in assessing consumer needs, business conditions (including competition) and numerous other factors.   The lords and ladies of commerce, we are correctly told, boldly take business risks that would not be encouraged within alternative economic models, such as socialism.  Thus they should not be unduly restrained or coerced by GOVERNMENT in implementing their FREE MARKET decisions about such things as where to operate their businesses.

 

The instrumentalities of local government considering Walmart's current application are in no way obliged to take into account the economic impact of this proposed project upon competing businesses.  Nor should they.  After all, this economy of ours is a FREE MARKET CAPITALIST SYSTEM.  Government may permissibly consider such factors as traffic safety, stormwater runoff management, and other factors that affect the general public interest  but, as is often (and tiresomely) asserted by those on the right, "Government is best that governs least."   And "Government is not the solution to the problem; government IS the problem." (famous Reaganesque utterance beloved by FREE MARKET enthusiasts).

 

There has emerged in recent years a renewed adoration for that ultimate champion of FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, the late Ayn Rand, an atheistic apostle of selfishness who has managed to construct an economic philosophy that overtly glorifies GREED.   There are numbered among her fans even some who would consider themselves Christians, notwithstanding the impassable gulf between the teaching of Christ and the  Randian notion of greed and selfishness as human virtues.

 

FREE MARKET CAPITALISM--great when it works for you, isn't it, but not so danged good when it

gores YOUR ox! 

 

Because we love buying stuff made in China! That's why.

I can remember when you could enter into any WalMart and see them advertising and promoting "Made in America".  They promoted their own business on their ability to supply and provide "Made in America" items.  This was also a time, in WalMart's past when their return policy had no expiration date on it.  Times have changed from the smaller neighborhood stores that ware mostly located in the smaller towns and areas to SuperStores and Made Mostly Elsewhere products.  I don't know if the changes were implemented by family members taking the helm after the passing of Sam Walton or made by the market itself.  

If a person is truly for freedom then WalMart should have the freedom to purchase and build wherever they find the land to do so provided there are no safety concerns to the public. While some would say that there are due to increased traffic others would counter that any growth would bring more traffic and the good would outweigh the additional traffic as well as WalMart funding an extra light for traffic control.  

I live in the area where the new store is going and would be directly affected by the increased traffic.  I don't believe that my property would be degraded due to the store and I believe that the added jobs and catalist for bringing in more business to the area would outweigh the potential loss of jobs to other retailers in the area.  If one truly believes in Capitalism  then competition benefits the consumer by keeping prices competitive as well as causes other competitors to raise the bar and improve their offering or improve their property and business to compete.  Then there is the addition of jobs and improvements to the area that some say benefits homeowner's and increases the desirability of their property, or some believe so.   

There is also a bit of irony also with some folks who oppose moves like the new WalMart.  This is not meant at any one specific person or anyone here but regarding some folks I have personally known.  On one hand they don't want chain businesses to come in and want mostly locally owned and small business yet complain to the hilt about how high prices are.   When competition is reduced then prices rise and are higher.  Some also say that WalMart is not fair competition and that they force competition out of business in order to corner the market.  I've heard this but it also goes against what the current trends are.  Current business news is that businesses like Dollar General, Family Dollar, Dollar Stores are experiencing great growth as well as Target seems to be doing well so I suppose it still is a topic to be debated.  

Remember too, gbrk, that when Walmart touted its "Buy American" policy, there was a lot more stuff being made in this country than there is now.  Thanks to NAFTA, lots of goods that were made here are now made in Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, etc., etc., not to mention all the stuff that is now made in Asia.  Thus Walmart did not really have much of a choice left at to where it purchased goods.

 

One strong proponent of NAFTA was Rush Limbaugh, Certifed Windbag, the pliant  tool and puppet of big business.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. pays billions of dollars a year in rent for its stores. Luckily for Wal-Mart, in about 25 states it has been paying most of that rent to itself -- and then deducting that amount from its state taxes.

The arrangement takes advantage of a tax loophole that the federal government plugged decades ago, but which many states have been slower to catch. Here's how it works: One Wal-Mart subsidiary pays the rent to a real-estate investment trust, or REIT, which is entitled to a tax break if it pays its profits out in dividends. The REIT is 99%-owned by another Wal-Mart subsidiary, which receives the REIT's dividends tax-free. And Wal-Mart gets to deduct the rent from state taxes as a business expense, even though the money has stayed within the company.

On average, Wal-Mart has paid only about half of the statutory state tax rates for the past decade, according to Standard & Poor's Compustat, which collects data from SEC filings. The so-called "captive REIT" strategy alone cut Wal-Mart's state taxes by about 20% over one four-year period.

 

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/wa...e_tax_dodge_rent.php

Good ole' GREED!

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/...ottom-172819426.html

No, we probably don't really need it but since when did that matter? LOL

Well I will base my answer on the following.  Have you noticed how full the phamacy section is during the day.  There are people lined up all over waiting to get their medicine.  I go shopping and alot of the time the shelves are empty of the items I want, could be just that I want the wrong items.  The check out lines are backed up to the clothing section, again maybe I just go at the wrong time.  Not sure what businesses would close because of the new walmart, maybe the drug store, but there are 2 or 3 close to the old walmart that are still open.  If I can buy at a walmart next by instead of driving 5 miles why not.  A red lite at the wright dr would maybe even help the traffic flow.  The intersection at cloverdale rd and cox creek should have have been build with 2 turn lanes anyway.  The state always goes for the cheap route.  Maybe they could take some of the money going to pay for unneeded lites on wilson dam rd in muscle shoals and improve the intersection here.  As far as those saying the increase traffic will be a headache, I could say that about the increase that came about when the christian school opened up and all those people clogging the intersection of cloverdale rd and that street by state farm.  The people leaving the school and turning right on cloverdale rd don't have a clue that they can stop at the red lite and turn right on red if clear. 

      Well I will base my answer on the following.  Have you noticed how full the phamacy section is during the day.  There are people lined up all over waiting to get their medicine.





This has been my experience as well. Both in Muscle Shoals and at the Florence location. Pharmacy customers often leak over into the main isle there are so many.

It is opening a new store because the old store is doing volume past it's max capacity.  These stores are designed to do 50 to 100 million a year.  When they excede that amount for 3 years the process begins to open a new store to take the pressure off the old store, this has been in the works for years!

I use Walgreen's and they are always super busy too.

The traffic light wil Not be at Wright's Dr., but will be at a "new road" just above the CVS entrance!!!!  Wrights Dr traffic will have to wait until its clear to turn left towards Cox Creek.

Who cares where the stuff is made as long as it works and is inexpensive.

I hear living in China is cheap too

Actually there is a proposal for the intersection to get a red light. It is most likely going to happen.

Why wait around for the pharmacy at Walmart to fill your prescriptions?  There are home-owned pharmacies in the Shoals where you can  get your prescriptions filled without having to wait more than a minute or two.  We use Northgate Pharmacy on Cloverdale Road and they are, in my opinion, the pharmacy equivalent of a fast food restaurant.  It is amazing how quickly they fill our prescriptions.  Their proces are as good as Walmart's, at least on Medicare prescriptions. And if your doctor calls the prescription in ahead of your visit to the pharmacy, they will have it ready for you when you walk in the door.  I understand that Massey Pharmacy, also on Cloverdale Road, is just as good. There are likely other local home-owned pharmacies that will do the same. 

 

Walmart is happy to make you wait, knowing that you will probably wander around their store and buy something. 

This what I'm talking about. Walmart will match prices no matter what item(s) you buy and sometimes you don't even have to show the ad. They are busy and want you to shop.  They will take away business from the mom and pop phramacies, not all but if its even 20% that will be enough to strangle them, maybe for a couple of years. eventually they will move or close, just give Walmart 5-8 years and the whole landscape will be tatoo parlors, message parlors and car title loan stores, just wait and see.

 

WalMart has had SuperStores in Florence, on Hough Rd and also in Muscle Shoals as well as Russellville, Moulton, and Athens and although I have heard many make the same statements about WalMart as for this area I haven't seen this happen.  Where is the effects of these stores in these areas as they seem to still be growing?

Yes, Walmart is doing well and stores that feed off their business, ie McDonalds, Sonic and the like, but, gbrk, look around, look at downtown Moulton, Russellville, Meridian MS , Iuka ms, Amory MS and all the small towns any where you name,  All the business is done by Walmart, the "town"" is dead. North Florence fits that mold. Yes, you are right in areas around places like the otherWalmart in Florence.  Where has all the business gone in Tuscumbia (down town) and Sheffield (down town)  Its all at Walmart.

___

"Shurfield" was dead long before the first Walmart opened around here.

I agree, but its plum dead now

       
Thank you!! right answer.

I remember when Sam Walton once came into the Florence WalMart store unannounced, and told the shoppers on the speaker system that Florence was one of their more successful stores in sales. I doubt things have gone anywhere but up for this store. 

 

9% Sales Taxes on a WalMart store is a big, big deal.  The "Cadillac City" needs all the $ they can get--to pay for Florence's waste management--among other things.  They're not going to vote the expansion down.  Good people are now going to have this industrial complex built in their back yards.

 

Why? Why? Why?  Even though it doesn't make sense to build another store so close.  WalMart's expansion team is not going to risk $10-15 million building the new store unless they were 100% sure it was also going to be successful.  They (and McDonalds) are never wrong about their socio-economic business models.  Ever see a WalMart close down for poor sales?  No!

 

It's just too bad that Oakley Equipment couldn't have sold their huge piece of land to WalMart--1/2 mile west.

     Why? Why? Why?  Even though it doesn't make sense to build another store so close.  WalMart's expansion team is not going to risk $10-15 million building the new store unless they were 100% sure it was also going to be successful.  They (and McDonalds) are never wrong about their socio-economic business models.  Ever see a WalMart close down for poor sales?  No!





You make a good point. As someone else said this has been in the planning stages for years.

I read an article once in the Atlanta newspaper on how WalMart's market reps scout for new locations.  They fly a team in, rent a SUV or big van, and hit the road all week--looking at new cities and places they're already doing business in.  WalMart's experience in market analysis and socio-economic knowledge is absolutely incredible.   They're not just putting in new stores, they're also forming "new cities".  This team has a great responsibility, as they're deciding where any future business in that town/market is going to be built.  Values of surrounding properties explode.

 

With such a large investment, Wal Mart just cannot afford any mistakes.  If they say Cloverdale Road is the place to be, it's the place to be.  Like I said earlier, too bad Oakley couldn't have cut a deal with his big piece of property, as the new Wal Mart there would have not affected so many closeby residential areas--but still be within 1/2 mile of the current location.

I have a high school friend whose husband has recently retired from Wal-Mart.  He started with them right out of college and worked in the real estate division.  When they travel, and do all the scouting, they do it under another company name which is very secret, in order to try and keep the real estate prices from exploding on them. 

Oakley property is on a major roadway and the price of such property is more expensive than the tract Wal-Mart bought OFF Cloverdale road knowing the local government would build them a road to the new store and put up traffic lights were they want them. The current store property was a pasture with no road frontage. The seller couldn't wait till he could sell them road frontage which they never bought.

As for traffic lights, they will only congest the traffic and cause more accidents. The traffic light at Heathrow & Cloverdale has caused several deaths and untold number of accidents there and at all the intersection within a 1/2mile of it. this signal should only be active 1 hour before school starts and 30 minutes after and 30 minutes before and after school lets out. And since the the signal is controlled on demand it should be illegal to turn right on red.

Cox Creek between Hough and Mall road should have no access thereby causing the traffic to use the frontage routes, and there would be no need for the unnecessary  traffic congestion and accidents in that area now.

But we don't let ADOT decide where traffic signals be placed in Florence that's why we have four times as many as any other city our size has. We let citizen complaints and clout decide where they are placed. The Traffic signals at Mars Hill Road, Creekwood, are prefect examples as is the light in front of Lowe's. Next time you see a Lowe's anywhere  there will be a traffic signal in front of it, Lowe's will pay to have one placed there if they can't get the local government to pay for it, making potential customers have to stop virtually half the time you travel by their store, it's called marketing. If you lived here when Cox Creek was first build you may remember it was constructed as a by-pass to cure traffic congestion of work traffic and was to have no traffic lights on it except for the intersections of the state highways, rumors have it that Foote Auto ( now Damson) could not get electrical power turned on for 6 months till a frontage road was built as Foote was the first business on the new parkway.

I've lived just off Cloverdale since 1962, so I have no love for all the traffic are the inefficiency inwhich it has been handled, but if history has taught me anything it's not going to improve, and we are  

  

going to get a Wal-Mart in my backyard whether I like it or not, the only good thing I can say is I won't have to visit the Muscle Shoals store like I use to, as I could go to it faster from Petersville than I could the one on Cox Creek due to traffic. 

Anyone who has or will have major problems with the now existing or future traffic lights for the new Walmart on "Walmart Hill on Cloverdale Road"  should register their feeling and complaints to the ALDOT person in charge of the design and state of Alabama official.  Please email and tell your friends to email to complain  and how this road will be a hazard to all who travel Cloverdale Rd.  This is the only way we can let the officials know how we feel.     James Brown, ALDOT  Division Engineer   Director of ALDOT  for all of North Alabama  brownjd@dot,state,al.us

We also should contact all of the city council members and the mayor and Mickey Haddock and Rick Singleton, mayorial candidates  to get their support for denying the plans for Walmart at this location.

Please look at a website about the  times daily article about the Planning Commission's vote to approve the "Walmart Plans" on Dec. 22.   http://www.sprawl-busters.com/...h.php?readstory=3931 This article is on the internet worldwide and showing the world how our Planning Commission really works by approving plans without considering all the facts and even incomplete traffic studies. This is a "must read".

If you stop buying stuff made in China, you aren't going to have much stuff.

If you believe that a local "planning commission" is going to stop Walmart from building a store, then you are out of touch with reality.

Well I guess we finally have agreement on something!

I hear living in China is cheap too!! You want to go?

I lived in a town in Northeast Alabama where Walmart came in and built a SuperCenter.  After completion, they were required to make a deposit of 25k for utilities.  I think Walmart had thought all along that they didn't have to do so.  When the city forced them on it, they left the new store sitting empty for a few months.  Only after the city waved the deposit did Walmart come in and finally open it up.  Walmart is sucking all local business dry with it's China products.  At that time Walmart was preaching Made in America.  I worked at the local mill where we opened boxes of mats for Walmart, pulled the Made in China off and stuck new tags saying Made in America on them. 

Yes, Harley, I belive you. Walmart (now, after Sam) has not had an originial idea. They ride around looking for lots of people buying middle class goods. They then settle down in their mist and bring in China made products and close businesses that have been established for years, Goody's, Michaels, and all the clothing stores in  stores across from the mall and several in the mall with their LOW price Always. The only businesses that they bring in are the parasite typing businesses that live off Walmart traffic.. Have you ever seen a Walmart build in an unoccupied area, waiting on customers to come to them. No, they only want to settle in ready made business  areas like here on Cloverdale Rd. A huge Walmart will open in 2012 in Madison, Al  across from the new hospital being build there on US 72 near Madison, the city  and almost ready. Another ready made customer base. We don't need another Walmart on Cloverdale, its only 3 miles away. There you have 6 different ways to get to the store. Here, they will have to make a "new" road at the crest of the hill just north of Cox Creek to turn into the new store. You talking about a bottleneck that you ain't seen yet. People are going to wreck and get killed at or near there. What will the ADOT do then? What will the city do then? Walmart will be land locked then. I see nothing but trouble.

I don't think so.  I lived in Daphne about 15-20 years ago, and remember when the city allowed Walmart to build a new Supercenter there, just off the highway at the entrance to Lake Forest subdivision.  Heard all kinds of rhetoric about how it would be a huge bottle neck of traffic and hurt the area, but that turned ut not to be the case. Actually home prices in that subdivision went up.  Lots of new stroes came in to follow Walmart (restaurants, small retail specialty stores, hobby shop) and the area grew even more. I am not sure what businesses you see threatened by the store there. The two grocery stores will probably still have their same clientele, since most people tend to be loyal to their groceries. About the only other thing iin that area is small fast food joints (McD's, Jacks, etc).  Which businesses are you do you fear will be run out business by this endeavor? The traffic situation at Cloverdal is not suddenly going to become a deathtrap due to new business there, that is just fearmonging.

And yes buying cheap items is what the general public looks for.  One reason that the stores you mention above went out of business was because the quality of merchanidse they offered was not much better than one could get at Walmart or target for a better price, and rest assured there was no more American made products in Goody's or Micheal's than there is in either of those stores.

Well teyates, the only thing you want to talk about is competition. Cloverdale road entrance to this Walmart is one way in and out. Yes, I have seen Walmart in Daphne and its not exactly as you describe. Its on a major highway with lots of entrances, businesses did not come there because of Walmart, but as a planned growth area. It was not ajoining the ESTABLISHED residental subdivision. Your description is lacking in several ways  You must be a Walmart stockholder by the way you love Walmart.  They run businesses out of business.  In any area you can say is good, I can gives 10 examples of how its been bad for the town its come to.