why do we place blame on poor

 I asked on another thread if it was possible to turn in someone that was scamming the government. I don't think you can even do it. I don't know anyone that has been successful at it. The people "in charge" don't care, they get a check basically for just "warming a seat" and that is all that they care about. It's too much to ask of them to actually do their job, and if a person persists in wanting accountability they're called "haters". "You hate the poor, you hate children, you hate women, you hate minorities, you hate the elderly." Funny thing I've noticed about those kind of people is that they rarely do anything to help people. They claim they would, but will say "they don't have a lot of money", but more often than not they have more than the ones they're trying to "bully or guilt" into giving up their money. Then you have the ones that are more worried about some other country's "poor" than the TRUE poor and needy right here in this country.

I don't think there's an answer to the problem, and now people are just hanging on until the ride ends and they're tossed off.

http://www.howtoreportfraud.co...XZpbACFQcEnQodA048Xw

I have never thought of people who want to repert fraud as "haters". What bothers ME is the people who would rather END all programs because SOME are scamming the system. THOSE are the people who seem not to care about the truly sick, disabled, or elderly.

Helping people in foreign countries, to ME, is a Christian thing. People are people no matter where they live.

We have created a entitlement society so it's no surprise when we find a good many of the people in need wouldn't be in need were it not for the entitlements.  If you want a homeless problem in your city build a homeless shelter to enable the homeless (a.k.a. alcoholics).

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Not only created it, but we have so many that encourage it. 

While I agree that there are definitely some entitles, spoiled people in this country (there is everywhere, it is not a thing that only happens in america) What about the people who truly need help. The people who through no fault of their own end up with nowhere to go, had their house forclosed on, got laid off, etc... Should we just say "Tough luck" and leave them to die in the streets? That isnt right either.

The people who through no fault of their own end up with nowhere to go, had their house forclosed on, got laid off, etc... Should we just say "Tough luck" and leave them to die in the streets? That isnt right either.

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Who says "tough luck"? That has always been my point, there are people who need help, truly need it, and they are the ones, the ONLY ones, that should be getting it. Any resentment I have is not for those people, it's for the ones that are scamming and getting away with it because the ones that should be overseeing the programs are too lazy to do their jobs, and just don't give a flip.

Should we say tough luck?  Yes and no.  If they lost their jobs and have nothing or no one to fall back on will they be able to keep their same standard of living?  Is America going to pay their $1300 a month mortgage and $400 car payment? Probably not so yeah tough luck is in order.  Will they get free or reduced housing in a craptastic neighborhood, you betcha.  

There is one way that some poor people can improve their status:  STOP SMOKING.

At $5.00 per pack and two packs per day, that comes to $3650.00 per year, which can go a long way toward paying off bills, mortgages, etc., and providing better nutrition for the family.

Studies show that smoking is much more common among the lower economic classes, who can least afford to spend money on things that are unnecessary and harmful to health.

My daughter is part of the entitlement society, and just about everyone she knows is also taking government freebies of some sort.  She gets the O'Bama phone for free, but it's not a top line Samsung or IPhone like she uses.  My daughter is like a one armed person with a cell phone in her left hand at all times.  But, she can write text messages at 50 wpm.  Needless to say her manners are terrible, since she cannot get off the phone long enough to carry on a decent conversation.  Even though she gets $500+ per month in "food stamps", she seldom cooks.  Her generation only eats out--chicken tenders, hamburgers and pizza--and they're often heavy.  Section 8 housing and utilities are free, but she doesn't like the neighborhood.  

The job market is not good for a one armed full time text messenger without manners.  She cannot afford to give up $1000 per month in net government freebies to go to work for $7.25 per hour, or $1160 per month gross.

The worse part is that years go on, and she doesn't realize that she's poor--and that life is not going to improve.  When Ole Dad leaves this earth, we worry about her future.  

The entitlement society enables people to be live like this, and serious changes are warranted.  Our poor people all have 2-3 televisions hooked up to cable, computers and internet, washers/dryers and cars.  They also have roofs over their heads.  In most parts of the world, our poor would be semi-rich, compared to the lifestyles of the poor, starving citizens of the world living in cardboard boxes

It's only going to get worse. When it's made so easy and attractive for fraud, and there are no consequences for it, what else can we expect? I guess the day that the well does run dry, and there's no more money to be had for the scammers, no more money for that cushy government job, they might be wishing they had done the job they were paid to do. I keep hearing my mother's and grandparent's voices saying, "then it's going to be root hog or die."

We have created a society where there is more incentive to live off of the gov't than to take an $8 an hour job. I see signs all the time posted at fast food joints, gas stations, etc... looking for people to work. However, when the incentive is greater to take a gov't payout than to work people will choose the gov't payout. Check out this recent video on the Bill Maher show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2kGPdxkofo

And a single mother can't AFFORD to take an $8/hour job. The cost of daycare and transportation would leave her no money to pay rent/utilities or food. Not to mention, most or at least a lot of jobs that only pay $8/hour don't offer insurance.

Well if you are going to go through life with a high school education you are setting yourself up for minimum wage job so why would you reproduce? 

Most of the people we hire are legal immigrants from Mexico and have 26% unemployment among young black males.  People don't want a education but they wont work for $10 a hour.

I know people like this. Most of them have a house full of kids too. You are right though, things will never get any better and life is not going to improve for them. Great post and I agree 100%! 

If it is a "Christian" thing to you then you should send money to the many private charities that do work in foreign countries. However, I for one do not want a gov't that tells me what the "Christian" thing to do is or forces me to do it.

A single mom can work an $8 hour job and take less money from the gov't. Our entitlement system should be reformed so that it forces able bodies people to work then if you are a single mom it would make up the difference between your current wage and the poverty line. What our entitlement system should not be is an enabler for able bodied healthy adults to sit at home.

As you can see in the link I posted from the Bill Maher show most of the people that were in the welfare line were healthy adults.

at what point do we not support the single mother? some have multiple kids by multiple men, should I pay for their stupidity. My wife and I have stayed with each other thru all kinds of challenges and temptations. I don't believe I should pay for those that have choice to be single.

maybe if we hired more social workers and put tuff standards on their preformance we could cut cost.

However years ago the housing authority gave a donated car to a lady they knew was scamming the

system. I have a high school ed. have made it thru life thru hard work.. and am tired of paying to much in taxes.

maybe if we hired more social workers and put tuff standards on their preformance we could cut cost.

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Maybe if we demanded the ones getting paid right now did their jobs we could cut costs. I don't see the point in throwing good money after bad by hiring even more do nothings.

Well, it sounds like they may need to work more than 40 hours a week then. Those of us in the real world have to work until the job is done. If that is 45-50 hours a week then so be it. 

Both Single Moms AND Single Dads can make a living off of $8.00 per hour and at that wage level there is assistance that they qualify for. It would also be a lot easier on everyone if the deadbeat moms were actually forced to pay the child support that the courts have "ordered" them to pay but have no intention of enforcing the order.

The state could start by prohibiting certain grocery items from Food Stamps.  Like Cokes, steaks, cookies, chips, frozen pizzas, and hundreds of junk food items.  Make'em drink ice tea, eat only hamburger and chicken.  Give'em veggies, but nothing with sugar.  Bring in the family for weigh in's, and cut'em off if they're truly grossly obese.  Send'em to nutrition classes before allowing certain items on Food Stamps.  And, stop the deli sandwiches at Publix and Papa Murphy's pizzas.

A family of 3 gets over $500 in Food Stamps per month.  They waste 1/2 what they get on junk food.  Many lend out their cards at a discount, and use the money for cigarettes and illicit drugs.  And, many say this is the best entitlement program the U.S. Government has.  Pleeeeese!

Wow. Listen to all the armchair experts....

Have ANY of you actually ever had to use public assistance of any kind? It's easy to make judgement calls when your belly's full.  Have you ever tried to 'make a living' at an $8 an hour job? 

There are some months I would KILL to be able to eat hamburger or chicken..  Usually it's Ramen noodles or when I can afford it, some cheap hotdogs.  On weeks when I actually can get some extra work-I get to go to Hometown Market and get the '5-for $20' cheap cut meat special and eat like a king. Well, a king that doesn't mind chewing gristle, anyways....Protein is protein and beggars can't be choosers...

  I am eligible for food assistance usually 3 or 4 months out of a year due to the seasonal nature of my job.

I try to avoid having to use it because, like the proverbial 'long-haired country boy' in the Charlie Daniels song, "I ain't askin' nobody fer nuthin' if I can get it on my own."

  Until two years ago-I never ever had to apply for assistance in my life.  (It amazes me that people who manage football teams or who 'consult' on things (basically get paid to run their mouths and sign stuff) make so much money while folks around here who transport cargo that is more sensitive than nuclear waste and more valuable than gold bullion get paid less than the guy who sweeps the floor in McDonalds).

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Sez Chuck:

"Well if you are going to go through life with a high school education you are setting yourself up for minimum wage job so why would you reproduce?"

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Because I have a beautiful, college-bound 18-year old daughter that could and would cold kick your ass for making that statement...THAT'S why. As I understand it, that's the way it's supposed to work...Your kids are supposed to have it better than you did.  That's part of the problem around here, I think. The whole "you're worthless unless you're college-educated" mentality.

  Without the myriad minimum-wage workers that do jobs that are beneath you 'intellectuals', all you eggheads would probably be dead in a month's time. (or suddenly working a minimum-wage job to survive  .

Not everybody came from a big, cozy insular family where everything went according to the socially acceptable rules of life. Some of us didn't get the breaks you got. But that's OK with most of us minimum wage workers. All we want is to be able to make a modest living as productive members of society however we can. 

 We'd appreciate ya not begrudging us a hand up every now and again. We know that you're only one or a couple paychecks away from joining our ranks. 

My personal opinion? I tink Bestworking has the right idea.  Eliminate wasteful spending by making everybody involved more accountable.

The admins as well as the recipients.  

If I remember correctly, recipients of public assistance are supposed to list any and all assets owned on the application. That way they can be liquidated should there be any instances of fraud or abuse.

Getting Section 8 housing and drive a late-model Lexus?

Getting Food stamps and yakking on the newest Android phone?

Luuuuuuucyyyyyyyyy....Ya got some 'splainin' to do.. So does Ricky...

I think if weight was a factor in determining eligibility for benefits-most of the people on them around here would be immediately disqualified. They's some fat mutha#$%ers 'round here.

Maybe if DHR workers would be able to make follow-up inspections to households of recipients like child welfare does, a lot of waste and abuse and fraud would be eliminated. 'Course that costs more money to do that, but maybe the expense would be justified by the savings from eliminating the waste.

I dunno. Makes sense to me.

@Contendah: I smoke. You're absolutely right about the lower economic classes and tobacco addiction.  I dunno why that is....Mebbe some day I'll ask the pipe-smoking professor to explain it to me.

I don't however buy cigarettes by the pack. At today's prices-that's just ridiculous.

While I can't seem to curb my addiction to nicotine-I HAVE managed to figure out how to be poor more efficiently in that respect.  For some years now I have been making my own smokes that are just as good as store-bought ones for a fraction of the cost.

$17 gets me three cartons worth of tobacco and tubes. For a smoker-Ya can't beat that with a stick.

I manage to save $380/month between my wife and I making our own smokes-enabling me to more comfortably pay for rent, utilities, car insurance, and food.

Cigarette smoking is really the only vice I've got left. LOL. Ya wouldn't wanna know me if I suddenly hadda quit.

@Seven: Yeah, we have a car. Just barely.  Weekends are for spending underneath it patching it back together. If we didn't already have it when we got here, we wouldn't have one now.

Cars are not a luxury for us. We can't afford to live close enough to where we work to walk or ride bicycles. There's no public transportation, otherwise we'd probably use that.

We don't drive anywhere we don't absolutely have to. My tires are flat-spotted from sitting. At today's fuel prices, even an old economy car like ours is a hop inna nuts to keep fueled.  Some weeks I'm only working for the gasoline to be able to get to work the following week. If it wasn't for my old, stripped-down motorcycle that gets 62MPG on a 2.9 gallon tank-There's some days I wouldn't be able to make it to work. (It's my primary mode of transportation in the nice weather because of the fuel economy....Well, that and I live to ride. )

Yes, I have basic cable and bottom of the line internet. I live on the wrong side of a goodly hill to be able to use free TV. Believe me, I've tried. I can only get the antenna up so high without needing a tower I can't afford and honestly, without 'net access, I think my wife and I would go bats#!t crazy as we're social critters-strangers in a strange land far from home who can't afford to much get out and do things here-so being able to keep in contact with friends and, well, ANYBODY outside of our home helps keep us fairly sane and in touch with other people. Prolonged isolation is not good for people. I know this from experience. It bends yer head funny after awhile.

We have a washer and dryer which I've rebuilt several times using kludge fixes. Why should I not be able to keep my clothes clean so I can look presentable to the public I work for?  I may be poor but I'll be danged if yer gonna be able to tell it by looking at me. I got my pride-dented some as it may be, usually it's the only thing I have to my name that's worth anything.

I got a free Obongotracphone,too. It's an old-school simple brick of a thing capable of voice and text (which I hate doing because I have to hit the same dang keys mutiple times, but it's way cheaper than talking at 1 minute per message, but again-beggars can't be choosers. I'm lucky to have it atall should I ever get run off the road by someone on public assistance driving a new Cadillac while texting on a new Android. At least if there's still an ounce of life left in me-I can call 911 and say goodbye to my wife from the ditch I'm laying broken in.) It also enables me to be able to get called into work early should we have a 'tornado' day so I don't miss the early dismissal and an afternoon of work.

I hardly use the free 250 minutes a month I get and they don't roll over.

DHR can visit me any ol' time to check up on me.  I'm trying to do it the right way and would prefer not to have to need any assistance atall, but alas....the situation says otherwise.

/end/of/rant/

But yeah....I think Best has the right idea. Make everybody accountable.

Well I think we found the poorer class can be just as uppity as the wealthy class.  I stand beside my statement.  The days getting out of high school and working in a factory for 40 years are over.  People need to figure out what they want out of life.  If that includes children they need to get a college education or a trade skill.   They don't need to be popping out babies everyone else has to pay for it.  You can line up down the street to kick my ass but that doesn't change anything.

Way to miss my point, Chuck.

You GO boyy..

We'll save ya a place in line when the bottom drops outta yer world.

It might.

 why would you get on here and downrate your daughter to everyone, shouldn;t you be trying to get her on right track rather than gossiping about her. shame on you.

RP, I hope you didn't take my post above the wrong way. I certainly didn't mean it in a bad way. I am referring to the people who DO NOT work and do not try to work. They simply lay back and let the government pay the bills and buy their food. They often drive new cars and have the latest and greatest cell phones, Huge tv's, and many extras that working people can't even afford. You are a worker and to me that is what the system is designed to help. Those who are working and trying to better themselves and yet sometimes It is still just not enough and those who are unemployed and can't find a job right now in this econmy. Hell, I got food stamps myself for a while before I ever landed a good, steady job many years ago. I know what it's like to struggle to make ends meet. I just wanted to make myself clear. I certainly don't agree with the snarky attitudes of some who have posted to this thread but everyone is entitled to an opinion. 

Good article in National Review comparing Germany and Greece and why culture matters in the success of a nation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/...-victor-davis-hanson

However, a commenter nailed it on the importance of character within a culture:

"These differences in culture also apply to why students succeed, or not. It's not intelligence - almost all students have sufficient raw brain power to do well in school. It's the cultural factors:

- Do they come to class on time? Or, do they saunter in late, having to be reminded to get a pass, then take another 10 minutes to do so. Multiply that 2-3 times a week, and they've lost instructional time.
- Are they ready for work when the bell rings? Or do they talk until reminded (several times) to stop, have no materials out until long after everyone else (at which time they will ask for a pencil, have to sharpen it at great length, sit down, then realize that they also don't have paper, have to borrow it...), don't write down assignments, talk anytime the teacher takes a breath and momentarily pauses talking, etc.
- Do they have a planner - and, do they use it? This is the # 1 thing that distinguishes good students from poor.
- When they do poorly, do they complain that "NOBODY passed this test" (not true), look for differences between their test and another student's, who did better (I often have to gently point out that, yes, 'B' WAS the correct answer on that other student's test, but that they had a different test), and crumple it up and throw it in the trash (with much showy disdain)? Or do they use it as a wake-up call, and start coming in for tutoring?
- If tutoring is available, do they use it?
- Do they read the book? (Unbelievably, the answer is often NO - they don't bring it to class, they don't take it home - apparently, it occupies a sacred place in their lockers).
- Is class used to catch up on their social life?
- Do they consider singing, banging on the desk, and occasionally breaking into dance just a swell way to handle their boredom during class? Are they outraged that they are disciplined for it?
- Do they consider out-of-school suspensions as mini-vacations? Do they make an effort to do the work that I'm required (often on a moment's notice) to provide for them?

You get it. It's not the IQ, it's the culture."

I am sorry that you think I've not tried to get my daughter on the right track, and just venting frustration that she doesn't have to live this way.  Government entitlements often allow lower income people to not really live that bad, and they somehow get along.  In my family, 100% of my generation graduated from college and had great jobs.  My parents and grandparents were very good citizens, went to church on Sunday and lived within their meager means.  My daughter was offered college (without student loans,) but she has chosen other direction.  We continue to dedicate our lives to her, however.   

My heart breaks for massive numbers of young people in our community making terrible life decisions.  They are too often sons/daughters of people that also made poor life decisions--divorce, drugs, alcoholism.  These too often unemployed young people now cohabitate with other underprivileged people--and have innocent little children that chances are will be another entitlement generation.  These young people are too often hooked on pills, and smoke too much weed.  They'll steal to keep up their druggie lifestyle.  And, I'm not going to get into the large percentage of our county jail population coming from this kind of family background. Poor people breed poor children who breed more poor children--the norm.

It all comes down to personal character.  Is it too hard to act decent, talk decent and look decent?  Do you think that anyone wants to hire men with spiked haircuts, tattoos running up their necks and crotches they're about to trip over?  No.  Employers want to hire people that have social graces, talk well and project themselves in a positive manner.  We are not seeing this in Shoals' low income society.

Because someone comes from a poor family doesn't mean they cannot get an education, obtain a marketable job trade (with decent wages), live a moral life (obeying all laws) and  provide for their children (including higher education.)  When are the people in our community going to make life changes, and break this noose around their necks--poverty?   And if a job cannot be found locally, move to Nashville, Huntsville or somewhere where you can make a living.  You simply don't have to live this way.