Why I DON'T Support Our Troops...

quote:

Originally posted by jaime:
Resa, best post of the whole thread!!!
I thank you and I haven't even been in the service. But I am smart enough to know what freedoms we've been given because of our troops, and what it meant and the cost to get those freedoms. If anyone here thinks our government is so bad, we'll gladly let you try any other government. (oh say try one in the Middle East) You would be running back to your cozy couch so you can berate the very government that gave the right to be disrespectful (read: HATE)to it to the point of idiocity!!!
Try that in Syria/Iran/Korea.
I think my point is made.

jaime, actually your point is NOT made... This is MY country, and I think the government has dropped the ball on so many things, especially in the last 2 years, and I am not alone either, 2/3 of Americans see it and know it.

I totally support our troops, but right now, they are not fighting for OUR freedom, because that is not OUR country, they are doing their jobs, that the gov't sent them to do.

I am proud of our troops, and support them whole-heartedly, but the cause that we are in right now has NO justification, and our boys/girs are DIEING.

You want to ignore what is going on in our Nation, be my guest, but thank God I am part of the 2/3rds that SEE that we have to make a change, or we will go under.

So, see... your point is ONLY made to the 1/3 of the people who don't or won't open their eyes and SEE what is going on...

This is not the way our Country is supposed to run, we found that out back in the 60,s and 70,s... and how we have done a complete circle I dont know, but we have, and now we have to work doubly hard at digging out... AGAIN.

OHHH, and another point, this is MY country, and I do NOT have to try another, I just want to strive to make ours better. That comment is a cop-out, just to try to hush up those who dont believe the way you do... Been there, heard ALL that before.

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:
This is in response to the post by Patriotwithoutabrain. You are so far beneath contempt, that words to tell you how I feel about the things you have said here fail me.

I am NOT ashamed of anything I say, anything I feel, or anything I KNOW. It is those of you who refuse to SEE or HEAR what is happening in our Nation who should be ashamed.

Read the replies, because you obviously have NOT, or otherwise, don't try to flaunt how 'smart' you are and pretend the rest of us are dumb.

Read Ed's reply... we have a man in the oval office who stole the first election, and barely even beat KERRY!... KERRY, lol... he almost beat Bush, and that even makes me laugh.

Over 2/3 of the Nation agree with most of the comments of these people who bared their soul... but you, sadly, remain in the 1/3 who refuse to admit there are things wrong, BAD wrong with these last 6 years.

<snip> [about the money] <snip>

That is NOT our country, and that is NOT our people...

I support the Troops (mauiboy especially via emails) but not the causes that we are there, it is none of our business how a country makes their laws.

Some of the laws made in the last 6 months here in the US were illegally made, so we cannot even make OUR laws right, and now we expect to nose in on someone else's HOUSE and make THEIR laws...

That is a country and culture we cannot nor will not EVER change, they are who they are, and always will be.

And if your son is here helping with Natural Disasters, then I applaud him, he is HERE, helping OUR people... how rewarding. Our troops are over there, doing their jobs too, but we do NOT know if they like it or not... the news is just too biased to know the "rest of the story" ...

Kindred,

Thanks again.

In the 40 years since my discharge from the ARMY a lot of things have changed in the world. During my service, we rose as a nation against the Soviet Union TWICE.
We delude ourselves if we think there is no danger to our liberty, or standard of living.
We need a military to protect us from people who would attack us. We don't need a military to attack them.
I do support the military, and at the moment it looks like the leaders of that military, with the exception of the Commander in Chief are willing and anxious to do their duty, defending this nation.
The issue is, What is the war in Iraq doing to DEFEND us? I don't see any real threat to our indepencence from Iraq. I do see a real dependence on the resource of Iraq, crude oil.
If we succeed in dominating Iraq, we will have to keep an armed force there till the oil is all gone. That's the only way we can prevent other nations from OUTBIDDING us for the crude oil.
I will say this again,
"We need a military to protect us from people who would attack us. We don't need a military to attack them."
I do support the Military, I do support the people who do the job. I DO NOT SUPPORT AGGRESSION, CONQUEST, PRE EMPTIVE WAR, OR ANY OTHER POLICY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

quote:

Originally posted by EdEKit:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:
This is in response to the post by Patriotwithoutabrain. You are so far beneath contempt, that words to tell you how I feel about the things you have said here fail me.

I am NOT ashamed of anything I say, anything I feel, or anything I KNOW. It is those of you who refuse to SEE or HEAR what is happening in our Nation who should be ashamed.

Read the replies, because you obviously have NOT, or otherwise, don't try to flaunt how 'smart' you are and pretend the rest of us are dumb.

Read Ed's reply... we have a man in the oval office who stole the first election, and barely even beat KERRY!... KERRY, lol... he almost beat Bush, and that even makes me laugh.

Over 2/3 of the Nation agree with most of the comments of these people who bared their soul... but you, sadly, remain in the 1/3 who refuse to admit there are things wrong, BAD wrong with these last 6 years.

<snip> [about the money] <snip>

That is NOT our country, and that is NOT our people...

I support the Troops (mauiboy especially via emails) but not the causes that we are there, it is none of our business how a country makes their laws.

Some of the laws made in the last 6 months here in the US were illegally made, so we cannot even make OUR laws right, and now we expect to nose in on someone else's HOUSE and make THEIR laws...

That is a country and culture we cannot nor will not EVER change, they are who they are, and always will be.

And if your son is here helping with Natural Disasters, then I applaud him, he is HERE, helping OUR people... how rewarding. Our troops are over there, doing their jobs too, but we do NOT know if they like it or not... the news is just too biased to know the "rest of the story" ...

Kindred,

Thanks again.

In the 40 years since my discharge from the ARMY a lot of things have changed in the world. During my service, we rose as a nation against the Soviet Union TWICE.
We delude ourselves if we think there is no danger to our liberty, or standard of living.
We need a military to protect us from people who would attack us. We don't need a military to attack them.
I do support the military, and at the moment it looks like the leaders of that military, with the exception of the Commander in Chief are willing and anxious to do their duty, defending this nation.
The issue is, What is the war in Iraq doing to DEFEND us? I don't see any real threat to our indepencence from Iraq. I do see a real dependence on the resource of Iraq, crude oil.
If we succeed in dominating Iraq, we will have to keep an armed force there till the oil is all gone. That's the only way we can prevent other nations from OUTBIDDING us for the crude oil.
I will say this again,
"We need a military to protect us from people who would attack us. We don't need a military to attack them."
I do support the Military, I do support the people who do the job. I DO NOT SUPPORT AGGRESSION, CONQUEST, PRE EMPTIVE WAR, OR ANY OTHER POLICY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

Ed, the voice of reason!!! My Dad served in WWII for our FREEDOM, and also in Korea... but since then, the ONLY thing that has threatened our FREEDOM is new laws on wiretapping, reading mail and monitoring internet... Oh and Osama whats-his-name. Now if we were at war because of what he did on 9/11, then I think EVERYONE would believe in the cause.

But since we jumped in on Iraq for no apparent reason, it is not our cause, and as a tax-paying, self-supporting AMERICAN I can say that and I can voice my dislike of it, and it just fires my buns to hear people (those VERY FEW people) who cop-out with the ONLY thing they know to say and that is "try another country"...

I bet I have paid as much taxes as some people here, and more than most, and I refuse to let someone come on a board and tell me to try another country...

AMERICA is MY country, and WHEN it gets straightened out, and Bush no longer has that "blank check" and has PEOPLE he has to answer to, then everyone might just see some good come out of it... IF they can SEE, HEAR or COMPREHEND, that is, lol.

I realize that I have been out of the state since 2003 (that's when my USAR unit deployed to Fort Dix, NJ), but I can't believe how gullible and moronic some of the people from my home state have become. People like KS who still say "BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION", and ED who states that "I DO NOT SUPPORT AGGRESSION, CONQUEST, PRE EMPTIVE WAR, OR ANY OTHER POLICY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION" or any of the other blithering idiots who believe we are in Irag for OIL!! Can any of you point to the FIRST DROP of oil that we have gotten from Iraq? That's what I thought. Quit reading the NY TIMES. Stop listening to MSNBC. Get out and do some research on your own. Do you people really not understand the fact that WHEN we get Iraq back on it's feet with a strong central government, they will be a great influance on the region and a wonderful ally if (probably when) the time comes to deal with Syria and Iran. I spend every day preparing Soldiers to go to Iraq and Afganistan. I also have the wonderful opportunity to talk with the Soldiers who are coming back from both. I can honestly say that in over 3 years, I have NEVER heard a Soldier say anything but how PROUD they are of the job we are doing in both countries. I truly feel sorry for some of you. You need to get up from your computer and get outside. Your ideas about this country and this war would not survive the cleansing effects of the sun.

Southern Patriot

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
I realize that I have been out of the state since 2003 (that's when my USAR unit deployed to Fort Dix, NJ), but I can't believe how gullible and moronic some of the people from my home state have become. People like KS who still say "BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION", and ED who states that "I DO NOT SUPPORT AGGRESSION, CONQUEST, PRE EMPTIVE WAR, OR ANY OTHER POLICY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION" or any of the other blithering idiots who believe we are in Irag for OIL!! Can any of you point to the FIRST DROP of oil that we have gotten from Iraq? That's what I thought. Quit reading the NY TIMES. Stop listening to MSNBC. Get out and do some research on your own. Do you people really not understand the fact that WHEN we get Iraq back on it's feet with a strong central government, they will be a great influance on the region and a wonderful ally if (probably when) the time comes to deal with Syria and Iran. I spend every day preparing Soldiers to go to Iraq and Afganistan. I also have the wonderful opportunity to talk with the Soldiers who are coming back from both. I can honestly say that in over 3 years, I have NEVER heard a Soldier say anything but how PROUD they are of the job we are doing in both countries. I truly feel sorry for some of you. You need to get up from your computer and get outside. Your ideas about this country and this war would not survive the cleansing effects of the sun.

Southern Patriot

sstarns, we HAVE done research, and we have lived through other "cold wars" and we DO know what we are talking about. QUIT READING NY TIMES... guess TimesDaily will be glad to hear that one, since they are owned by NY Times, lol.

And we can have our own opinions, remember the first amendment to the constitution??? It says FREEDOM OF SPEECH... it dont add that UNLESS you disagree with the president or 1/3rd of the rest of the Nation...

And what else do you expect ANY soldier to say? I expect each and every one of them to say what they are told to say.

Besides... I have already forgot more than you will ever know about this sort of activity... end of comment, lol.

KS
Just to respond to your scattered little post:
1.)I know who owns the TD. Don't care. I only read to keep up with what is happening in my old stomping grounds. 2.) I never said you were not entitled to freedom of speech, I just wish you would educate yourself before you use it. 3.) I am also a Soldier (you should always capitalize Soldier when you are use it in written form because it is a name. See, you learned something today) and I NEVER say anything just because my Commander or anyone else says so. PERIOD. If you really believe that to be so, you are even farther gone than I thought. 4.) What could you possibly know, much less forgot, about this "activity" than I will ever know. Please do feel me in.

Southern Patriot

I have read this whole thread. I've agreed with a lot and disagreed with a lot, and quite honestly this is the thread that I joined to reply to.

I do not support this war at all. However, I do support our troops. I have a few friends that are over in Iraq right now, and I pray that they do make it back. Each of them joined after 9-11 when patriotism was high, and when they all wanted to serve. Each of them now feel like they have been swindled at least a bit. They are proud to serve and fight for their country, but their morale is down and all of them feel like they shouldn't be in Iraq at all.

I don't really know what the official reason for us being in Iraq is now. It's changed so much, and since the war was officially declared "over" like two years ago, we are still there. It boggles my mind.

Since I just read it, I have to say to Southern Patriot. This is why being American is good. You can call my mom (Kindred Spirit) and anyone else on here "moronic", "idiot", and "gullible" (despite actually calling the person out who wrote this *raises eyebrow*)anytime you wish to do so. However, does that really help your cause and make you feel better? Unfortunately, it's not going to change people's minds, especially if you belittle them.

I'm the first to admit that I don't like Bush. The first election I wasn't old enough to vote it, but this last one I voted by character, and Bush's character to me had been soiled over the years. He is still our President, and I respect that he is in office, but I do not respect the job that he has done thus far.


That's the way I feel without any propaganda put forthwith, and nothing anyone can say or post or do, will change that.

If you really have served this country, then I thank you for your service. Do not get me (or my mom) wrong, we are strong supporters of the troops. She is more of a political debator, and I'm not. I usually just read. But, we are allowed the right to voice our likes and dislikes just like everyone else.

This was enlightening to read, for sure.

~Manda~

sstarns01, the great "southern patriot"...

I will let the rest of what you said slide, but please do not lecture KindredSprirt-- or anyone else for that matter-- on spelling, punctuation, or capitalization.

For the record, "soldier" is NOT capitalized, unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

Ask anyone with the most remote familiarity with the English language. You might have to go outside your immediate circle of family and friends to accomplish this, but you can do it.

Examples:

"He was the best soldier in the unit."

"It was sure a shame when those American soldiers vaginally and anally raped that 12-year-old Iraqi girl and then murdered her, along with her entire family."

"I hope they hang those soldiers with the same rope they used on Saddam, who acted like more of a gentleman on the gallows than those miserable cowards probably will when their time comes."

Always glad to help out,

PWAB

quote:

Originally posted by PatriotWITHaBrain:
sstarns01, the great "southern patriot"...

I will let the rest of what you said slide, but please do not lecture KindredSprirt-- or anyone else for that matter-- on spelling, punctuation, or capitalization.

For the record, "soldier" is NOT capitalized, unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

Ask anyone with the most remote familiarity with the English language. You might have to go outside your immediate circle of family and friends to accomplish this, but you can do it.

Examples:

"He was the best soldier in the unit."

"It was sure a shame when those American soldiers vaginally and anally raped that 12-year-old Iraqi girl and then murdered her, along with her entire family."

"I hope they hang those soldiers with the same rope they used on Saddam, who acted like more of a gentleman on the gallows than those miserable cowards probably will when their time comes."

Always glad to help out,

PWAB

LOL! Even though I do not agree with some of your ideas, I can appreciate some of your humor!

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
I realize that I have been out of the state since 2003 (that's when my USAR unit deployed to Fort Dix, NJ), but I can't believe how gullible and moronic some of the people from my home state have become. People like KS who still say "BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION", and ED who states that "I DO NOT SUPPORT AGGRESSION, CONQUEST, PRE EMPTIVE WAR, OR ANY OTHER POLICY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION" or any of the other blithering idiots who believe we are in Irag for OIL!! Can any of you point to the FIRST DROP of oil that we have gotten from Iraq? That's what I thought. Quit reading the NY TIMES. Stop listening to MSNBC. Get out and do some research on your own. Do you people really not understand the fact that WHEN we get Iraq back on it's feet with a strong central government, they will be a great influance on the region and a wonderful ally if (probably when) the time comes to deal with Syria and Iran. I spend every day preparing Soldiers to go to Iraq and Afganistan. I also have the wonderful opportunity to talk with the Soldiers who are coming back from both. I can honestly say that in over 3 years, I have NEVER heard a Soldier say anything but how PROUD they are of the job we are doing in both countries. I truly feel sorry for some of you. You need to get up from your computer and get outside. Your ideas about this country and this war would not survive the cleansing effects of the sun.

Southern Patriot

Gee Starns,
Bush Junior decided to invade Iraq when the people who supported his election told him that was a prerequisite to their support.
Do you expect to see any Oil from Iraq. WHEN WE FINALLY LIBERATE IT, we will do what we do with MOST of the Alaska oil, SHIP IT OFF TO CHINA. Iraq oil is not now a major part of ANY country's consumption. IT IS NOT GETTING OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
Starns, you need to look into the pipeline network, the sea ports where the tankers load up, and the PRICE of crude.
At 50 dollars a barrel, the tar sands of VENEZUELA can supply all the fuel needs of the world, at present consumption, for 500 years. BUT THAT IS AT 50 A BARREL. At 22 dollars a bbl the oil in KANSAS is not recoverable. AT $55, the oil Shale in Wyoming could provide a domestic source that would TOTALLY ELIMINATE the need for importation. Canada is seeing an oil production boom in their oil sands, and they are selling to a willing customer, China.
Fella, the cost of a gallon of gasoline depends on a number of factors. NOT least among them the cost of transporting it to the service station.
If we were not making war, but were instead making pipelines, Russian oil would be going to refineries in Iran and Iraq, and it would be getting made into fuels and feed stock for plastics and SHIPPED TO CHINA, JAPAN, SOUTH KOREA, INDIA and PAKISTAN. The value of oil would DROP LIKE A STONE IN AN ELEVATOR SHAFT. Kansas, Texas and Wyoming would SHUT DOWN all production. WE would be dependent on imported oil too. Then, when all the EASY TO GET NEARBY SUPPLIES were used up, we would start up again in Kansas and Wyoming and Oklahoma and Texas, and Southern California, and on and on and on. Pennsylvania might even become an oil producer again.
If you want to justify the war in Iraq, you need to JUSTIFY GOING TO WAR TO LINE SOMEONE ELSE'S POCKET.
Regarding "dealing with Syria and Iran" we should deal with them. Pay for what they have and we need, and otherwise LEAVE THEM TO THEIR OWN WAYS.
By the way and this is no secret, nor is it an issue, I trained at the Communication School at Fort Dix, and I while I have visited Alabama, and like the state a lot, I live in Arizona.

PWAB.
For your general wealth of information. The word soldier will always be capitalized when used in the first person, (i.e. Tho Soldiers of the United States Army have peformed a service for the Iraqi people by freeing them from the tyrany of Saddam. If they want to kill themselves in a civil war now, so be it.). I write the word anywhere from 5 to 500 times a day, on a military installation, and I know how it should be capitalized.
And by the way, if the BS you wrote about the 12 year old is true then the Soldiers should be and will be hung with the same rope. If you got that little tidbit from the nightly new, I would recommend getting some proof before you repeat it.

quote:

Originally posted by jaime:
Resa, best post of the whole thread!!!
I thank you and I haven't even been in the service. But I am smart enough to know what freedoms we've been given because of our troops, and what it meant and the cost to get those freedoms. If anyone here thinks our government is so bad, we'll gladly let you try any other government. (oh say try one in the Middle East) You would be running back to your cozy couch so you can berate the very government that gave the right to be disrespectful (read: HATE)to it to the point of idiocity!!!
Try that in Syria/Iran/Korea.
I think my point is made.

Jamie,
You have it backwards. WE DEMANDED AND WON OUR FREEDOMS ONLY ONCE. Since then the Military has been protecting them.
That may be a fine distinction, but there have been occasions when the military did not protect but opposed liberty. KENT STATE. The military has been used frequently to protect property, occasionally to protect individuals, SELMA SCHOOL INTEGRATION.
At its best government uses force to intervene between one group that has a right, and another group that wants that right denied. At its worst, it denies liberties. It NEVER grants or creates liberties. By definition Government Governs. (capitalization for emphasis for those of you who are sticklers for OBEDIENCE TO RULES.

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
or any of the other blithering idiots who believe we are in Irag for OIL!! Southern Patriot

Did your parents have any intelligent children?

I take exception to your ridiculous comment. I've spoken with several Marines, and that includes my son, who would have a different opinion. When you are the point of the spear, doing the killing and getting killed you may have change of heart.

You must have missed world history.

Good luck.

scott they DO have you brain washed don't they.

http://www.militarydefense.com/military_legal_news.php

this girl was 14

quote:

Originally posted by that smart chick:
Did I ever defend the politics regarding the war in Iraq? No.

I simply stated that it is a soldier's JOB to follow orders and those orders involve a certain degree of risk. Those risks include going to war and getting killed.

The statements in my post were in defense of the people who choose to defend this country. I support them, I support the job they are doing, and I support their choice to join the military. I do not, however support the President's choice regarding the war in Iraq.

I never said that the war in Iraq was about defending our freedom. PWAB's original post stated that he didn't feel any compassion for soldiers fighting in the war because they are / were aware of the occupational hazzard when they signed up for the armed services. I ask, does the same apply to firefighters, police, and others who risk their lives for the greater good of the greatest number of citizens.

You, mandomama, are advised to stop jumping to conclusions and shoving your words in my mouth and start reading posts before you go off on the poster.

You have it right chick,
Lt Ehren Watada has it right too.

quote:

Originally posted by miamizsun:

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
or any of the other blithering idiots who believe we are in Irag for OIL!! Southern Patriot

Did your parents have any intelligent children?

I take exception to your ridiculous comment. I've spoken with several Marines, and that includes my son, who would have a different opinion. When you are the point of the spear, doing the killing and getting killed you may have change of heart.

You must have missed world history.

Good luck.

miamizsun... what a great comment, and so truthful too. I know a whole lot of soldiers who disagree with this young man who is spouting off at the mouth, WITHOUT reading the entire post. Probably read enough to make him angry and he just came in spouting.

My very own daughter created an account here so she could have her say, and a lot of her friends have been there, and upon coming home, they DO share the horrible times, and the REASONING behind them having to go there in the first place. One of them even told us one night, that when he joined, it was to go to Afganastan to get Osama, and ended up in Iraq. Wow, and he knew not WHY!!!

I haven't read all these comments yet, since I got home from work, took me a while to figure out how to change from my daughter's account to mine, lol.

But sstarns, you came on too strong, you slung insults at people who have said time and time again WE ARE BEHIND OUR TROOPS, and you started the name calling, sstarns, which was horrible.

And I captalize what and when I want to, or when my shift key is working right, whatever the case may be... As far as capitalizing SOLDIERS, what does it matter on a board like this, if one has to type as quick as possible, and makes, what YOU think is a typo, SO WHAT??? WHO CARES??? And now, since I allow you to teach me how to captalize Soldier, in your case I will not do so, because someone supposedly fighting for OUR freedoms, you sure are rude, crude, and just plain awful on a board where people are trying to voice in TYPEWRITTEN words how they feel.

So now that you are a big boy and have served your time, you can read my facial expressions??? You can see my eyes??? You can predict what people MEAN through the typewritten word? No you cannot, no one can, because without that benefit, things can be said wrong.

I suggest you grow up a little more, and OPEN your eyes to see what is going on around you before coming here and acting like we are dummies.

I could go on, but that is all I feel like "teaching" at the moment, lol

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
PWAB.
For your general wealth of information. The word soldier will always be capitalized when used in the first person, (i.e. Tho Soldiers of the United States Army have peformed a service for the Iraqi people by freeing them from the tyrany of Saddam. If they want to kill themselves in a civil war now, so be it.). I write the word anywhere from 5 to 500 times a day, on a military installation, and I know how it should be capitalized.
And by the way, if the BS you wrote about the 12 year old is true then the Soldiers should be and will be hung with the same rope. If you got that little tidbit from the nightly new, I would recommend getting some proof before you repeat it.

From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access

[DOCID:chapter_txt-3]

[Page 23-34]

[[Page 23]]


3. CAPITALIZATION RULES

3.5. A common noun or adjective forming an essential part of
a proper name is capitalized; the common noun used alone as a
substitute for the name of a place or thing is not capitalized.

Soldiers' Home of Ohio; the soldiers' home

Soldiers' Home, if part of name: Ohio Soldiers' Home; the soldiers' home; etc.



.....and the debate rages on.

quote:

Originally posted by PatriotWITHaBrain:
sstarns01, the great "southern patriot"...

I will let the rest of what you said slide, but please do not lecture KindredSprirt-- or anyone else for that matter-- on spelling, punctuation, or capitalization.

For the record, "soldier" is NOT capitalized, unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

Ask anyone with the most remote familiarity with the English language. You might have to go outside your immediate circle of family and friends to accomplish this, but you can do it.

Examples:

"He was the best soldier in the unit."

"It was sure a shame when those American soldiers vaginally and anally raped that 12-year-old Iraqi girl and then murdered her, along with her entire family."

"I hope they hang those soldiers with the same rope they used on Saddam, who acted like more of a gentleman on the gallows than those miserable cowards probably will when their time comes."

Always glad to help out,

PWAB

PWAB-- I gave you some lee way, but you crossed the line. What those kids did to that girl and her family was horrible. Please, do not use it so lightly. I understand that you were trying to make a point, but their was a better way to do it and you already made comments about these incidents in a previous post(didn't think this dumb soldier would read back that far did you)lol...

Okay, on the subject of capitalizing Ss in the word Soldier. In military correspondence a directive, order, memorandum, whatever simply stated that the word Soldier will be capitalized. What our Southern Gentlemen in Jersey failed to clarify is that it is for Military Correspondence only. I believe Brentenman can back me on this, Where are you???

Southern Patriot-- I realize you have trained and spoken to many troops who have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. For that, I appreciate you. TRADOC is what killed my Active Duty career... Simply stated, "it ain't the real Army". Anyway, my question to you is if you have been to either place??? I will let you answer and then we'll go from there.

I would like for you to realize that the points you made may have been more appreciated and accepted had you not been so ugly in making your point. In fact I pointed this out to PWAB. He seems to be intelligent, but his arrogance tends to just get you angry at what he has to say. My opinion.

People need to get the "love it or leave it" mentality out of your head. If people were not able to express their opinions this post wouldn't even exist. Remember the Soldier, I like to capitalize it anyway, fights not only for those who support him/her, but for those who don't. We fight for those who choose to stand up against something they do not believe in and for those who choose to drink kool-aid I had to Brentenman Listen, I've been through alot these last couple of days just ask K.S. Just remember that having these discussions is the American way. It is our life. You don't have to throw stones to state your opinion. By telling someone to go find another country, just doesn't make sense. Calling someone a moron, doesn't help you make your case. Appreciate the fact that so many people can have so many different opinions. I love my Country....

quote:

Originally posted by EdEKit:

quote:

Originally posted by jaime:
Resa, best post of the whole thread!!!
I thank you and I haven't even been in the service. But I am smart enough to know what freedoms we've been given because of our troops, and what it meant and the cost to get those freedoms. If anyone here thinks our government is so bad, we'll gladly let you try any other government. (oh say try one in the Middle East) You would be running back to your cozy couch so you can berate the very government that gave the right to be disrespectful (read: HATE)to it to the point of idiocity!!!
Try that in Syria/Iran/Korea.
I think my point is made.

Jamie,
You have it backwards. WE DEMANDED AND WON OUR FREEDOMS ONLY ONCE. Since then the Military has been protecting them.
That may be a fine distinction, but there have been occasions when the military did not protect but opposed liberty. KENT STATE. The military has been used frequently to protect property, occasionally to protect individuals, SELMA SCHOOL INTEGRATION.
At its best government uses force to intervene between one group that has a right, and another group that wants that right denied. At its worst, it denies liberties. It NEVER grants or creates liberties. By definition Government Governs. (capitalization for emphasis for those of you who are sticklers for OBEDIENCE TO RULES.

Once AGAIN Ed, you are correct!!! We demanded and won our freedoms, many many years ago. Vietnam and Iraq has nothing to do with the freedom of the US of A.

MONEY, MONEY, MONEY... this is a Rich man's war, and anyone who don't believe that, then bury your heads deeper...

Like I said earlier... OVER 2/3rds of our Nation believes like I do, so I cannot be too wrong.

But again, so there are no misconceptions... I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, in whatever endeavor our gov't puts them to do, whether here in America or on foreign soil.. I support and love each person in the military who is doing their jobs. I also know a lot of them that are doing their jobs do not believe in the cause either. They aren't rich, so therefore cannot understand the RICH MANS War.

mauiboy71: I got your six....and you are correct. Soldier is the correct way to spell it, with capital S, just like Marine, Airman, or Sailor. The change took effect last year.

mauiboy71: send me some-more details as requested via AKO when you have a chance.
Also, notified my entire class on what happened last week, all send their good lucks and best wishes considering the situation. Also, they say "thank you" for the information you have given me so far that I DISTROED out.

quote:

Originally posted by mauiboy71:

quote:

Originally posted by PatriotWITHaBrain:
sstarns01, the great "southern patriot"...

I will let the rest of what you said slide, but please do not lecture KindredSprirt-- or anyone else for that matter-- on spelling, punctuation, or capitalization.

For the record, "soldier" is NOT capitalized, unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

Ask anyone with the most remote familiarity with the English language. You might have to go outside your immediate circle of family and friends to accomplish this, but you can do it.

Examples:

"He was the best soldier in the unit."

"It was sure a shame when those American soldiers vaginally and anally raped that 12-year-old Iraqi girl and then murdered her, along with her entire family."

"I hope they hang those soldiers with the same rope they used on Saddam, who acted like more of a gentleman on the gallows than those miserable cowards probably will when their time comes."

Always glad to help out,

PWAB

PWAB-- I gave you some lee way, but you crossed the line. What those kids did to that girl and her family was horrible. Please, do not use it so lightly. I understand that you were trying to make a point, but their was a better way to do it and you already made comments about these incidents in a previous post(didn't think this dumb soldier would read back that far did you)lol...

Okay, on the subject of capitalizing Ss in the word Soldier. In military correspondence a directive, order, memorandum, whatever simply stated that the word Soldier will be capitalized. What our Southern Gentlemen in Jersey failed to clarify is that it is for Military Correspondence only. I believe Brentenman can back me on this, Where are you???

Southern Patriot-- I realize you have trained and spoken to many troops who have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. For that, I appreciate you. TRADOC is what killed my Active Duty career... Simply stated, "it ain't the real Army". Anyway, my question to you is if you have been to either place??? I will let you answer and then we'll go from there.

I would like for you to realize that the points you made may have been more appreciated and accepted had you not been so ugly in making your point. In fact I pointed this out to PWAB. He seems to be intelligent, but his arrogance tends to just get you angry at what he has to say. My opinion.

People need to get the "love it or leave it" mentality out of your head. If people were not able to express their opinions this post wouldn't even exist. Remember the Soldier, I like to capitalize it anyway, fights not only for those who support him/her, but for those who don't. We fight for those who choose to stand up against something they do not believe in and for those who choose to drink kool-aid I had to Brentenman Listen, I've been through alot these last couple of days just ask K.S. Just remember that having these discussions is the American way. It is our life. You don't have to throw stones to state your opinion. By telling someone to go find another country, just doesn't make sense. Calling someone a moron, doesn't help you make your case. Appreciate the fact that so many people can have so many different opinions. I love my Country....

mauiboy, it is so late there, why arent you asleep, hehe!!! What a very well thought out, INTELLIGENT comment. I cannot appreciate you enough!!! You already know that though, our emails tells me a lot, as it tells you a lot, and I cannot wait till you, Soldier that you are, gets to go home to your wife and beautiful children!!!! That is in my prayers.

PWAB does go over the line, WAY over, but so does this other person... whom I will not stoop to his level and call him names.

I daresay that if sstarns (Southern Patriot) superiors knew that he took it upon himself to take AWAY our freedom of speech by belittling, insulting, and namecalling just to fit HIS mood, they wouldn't like it... after all... his point was FREEDOM, right?

maui... You are my one true hero and you are a great Soldier who got injured in action and you have the Admiration of this entire board. You are a true Soldier because you came here, and allowed us to speak our peace, and you spoke yours, and mutual respect was created. I applaud you, I admire you, and I thank you for being a great voice for our Armed Services in Iraq.

And psssst, I am waiting to see if this person who is insulting everyone has ever been there too...

Stay safe, and take care!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Brentenman:
mauiboy71: I got your six....and you are correct. Soldier is the correct way to spell it, with capital S, just like Marine, Airman, or Sailor. The change took effect last year.

mauiboy71: send me some-more details as requested via AKO when you have a chance.
Also, notified my entire class on what happened last week, all send their good lucks and best wishes considering the situation. Also, they say "thank you" for the information you have given me so far that I DISTROED out.

Brentman, like yourself, I have been emailing mauiboy, and he is one first class Soldier!!! There is no doubt in my mind. I have told some of the people I work with about what happened to him last Friday, and he is now is a VERY large prayer circle right here in our area... I think that is awesome!!!

I look forward to meeting him, his wife and his children, and so does my family... Everyone here is excited to meet such a wonderful, intelligent Soldier, filled with Common Sense... There is nothing but utmost respect...

quote:

Originally posted by Brentenman:
mauiboy71: I got your six....and you are correct. Soldier is the correct way to spell it, with capital S, just like Marine, Airman, or Sailor. The change took effect last year.

mauiboy71: send me some-more details as requested via AKO when you have a chance.
Also, notified my entire class on what happened last week, all send their good lucks and best wishes considering the situation. Also, they say "thank you" for the information you have given me so far that I DISTROED out.

I have some pics I can send you, but will have to call you about the rest. Thanks to all your class for their thoughts. You know as well as I do that none of it is easy. I'll leave it at that. Take care and God Bless

mauiboy71: Roger..out.

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by mauiboy71:

quote:

Originally posted by PatriotWITHaBrain:
sstarns01, the great "southern patriot"...

I will let the rest of what you said slide, but please do not lecture KindredSprirt-- or anyone else for that matter-- on spelling, punctuation, or capitalization.

For the record, "soldier" is NOT capitalized, unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

Ask anyone with the most remote familiarity with the English language. You might have to go outside your immediate circle of family and friends to accomplish this, but you can do it.

Examples:

"He was the best soldier in the unit."

"It was sure a shame when those American soldiers vaginally and anally raped that 12-year-old Iraqi girl and then murdered her, along with her entire family."

"I hope they hang those soldiers with the same rope they used on Saddam, who acted like more of a gentleman on the gallows than those miserable cowards probably will when their time comes."

Always glad to help out,

PWAB

PWAB-- I gave you some lee way, but you crossed the line. What those kids did to that girl and her family was horrible. Please, do not use it so lightly. I understand that you were trying to make a point, but their was a better way to do it and you already made comments about these incidents in a previous post(didn't think this dumb soldier would read back that far did you)lol...

Okay, on the subject of capitalizing Ss in the word Soldier. In military correspondence a directive, order, memorandum, whatever simply stated that the word Soldier will be capitalized. What our Southern Gentlemen in Jersey failed to clarify is that it is for Military Correspondence only. I believe Brentenman can back me on this, Where are you???

Southern Patriot-- I realize you have trained and spoken to many troops who have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. For that, I appreciate you. TRADOC is what killed my Active Duty career... Simply stated, "it ain't the real Army". Anyway, my question to you is if you have been to either place??? I will let you answer and then we'll go from there.

I would like for you to realize that the points you made may have been more appreciated and accepted had you not been so ugly in making your point. In fact I pointed this out to PWAB. He seems to be intelligent, but his arrogance tends to just get you angry at what he has to say. My opinion.

People need to get the "love it or leave it" mentality out of your head. If people were not able to express their opinions this post wouldn't even exist. Remember the Soldier, I like to capitalize it anyway, fights not only for those who support him/her, but for those who don't. We fight for those who choose to stand up against something they do not believe in and for those who choose to drink kool-aid I had to Brentenman Listen, I've been through alot these last couple of days just ask K.S. Just remember that having these discussions is the American way. It is our life. You don't have to throw stones to state your opinion. By telling someone to go find another country, just doesn't make sense. Calling someone a moron, doesn't help you make your case. Appreciate the fact that so many people can have so many different opinions. I love my Country....

mauiboy, it is so late there, why arent you asleep, hehe!!! What a very well thought out, INTELLIGENT comment. I cannot appreciate you enough!!! You already know that though, our emails tells me a lot, as it tells you a lot, and I cannot wait till you, Soldier that you are, gets to go home to your wife and beautiful children!!!! That is in my prayers.

PWAB does go over the line, WAY over, but so does this other person... whom I will not stoop to his level and call him names.

I daresay that if his superiors knew that he took it upon himself to take AWAY our freedom of speech by belittling, insulting, and namecalling just to fit HIS mood, they wouldn't like it... after all... his point was FREEDOM, right?

maui... You are my one true hero and you are a great Soldier who got injured in action and you have the Admiration of this entire board. You are a true Soldier because you came here, and allowed us to speak our peace, and you spoke yours, and mutual respect was created. I applaud you, I admire you, and I thank you for being a great voice for our Armed Services in Iraq.

And psssst, I am waiting to see if this person who is insulting everyone has ever been there too...

Stay safe, and take care!!!!

K.S.-- you're making me blush just kidding. It is late, but sleep is minimal here anyway. Sorry all, I've kind of made this my personal talking board. Thanks K.S. can't wait to meet you all.

quote:

Originally posted by sstarns01:
KS
Just to respond to your scattered little post:
1.)I know who owns the TD. Don't care. I only read to keep up with what is happening in my old stomping grounds. 2.) I never said you were not entitled to freedom of speech, I just wish you would educate yourself before you use it. 3.) I am also a Soldier (you should always capitalize Soldier when you are use it in written form because it is a name. See, you learned something today) and I NEVER say anything just because my Commander or anyone else says so. PERIOD. If you really believe that to be so, you are even farther gone than I thought. 4.) What could you possibly know, much less forgot, about this "activity" than I will ever know. Please do feel me in.

Southern Patriot

A LOT more than I am willing to tell someone who comes to a board, and starts out calling everyone idiots, morons, and the like... That, to me, proves your intellect.... Tell us YOUR Military Background... Where have you served, how long have you been in, any medals yet? Give us something to respect about you, except the namecalling and I bet you just MIGHT get some respect back, but until then, you don't have mine.

Your first task here is to go back and READ every single post by every single person, so you can get a 'feel' of what and why certain things were said.

And PLEASE, before you do that, just know that PWAB does NOT speak for all of us, only himself... oh, sorry, that was lesson #2.. but oh well, we need to clear the air, and this is the only way I know how to do it.

Oh and another thing, I don't say we are over in Iraq for Oil, all that Oil has already been sold anyway... we are over there for MONEY... the one thing better than Oil, is MONEY... now think about it.

We SHOULD be hunting down Osama, instead of re-working a country that we don't own, we dont live there, we don't make their laws, we didn't create their culture... and so far, NO ONE, not even Fox news can give one good reason to be in Iraq. God knows I wish they could.

Awww, mauiboy, I just now read your email to my home email .... we have been emailing all day from my work email... I am so sorry about your friend. Your wounds, and this fatality must really hurt you, and I am praying with all my might that God sees you through all this bad time.

You are a strong man and a great Soldier, and my hat is off to you for what you are going through.

God Bless you, my young friend!!!! And He will.

quote:

Originally posted by EdEKit:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by moms3babes2000:
<SNIP>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16472777/

(READ ARTICLE ABOVE) Bush doesn't abide by ANY law, he writes his own, and has done it several times over last two years, ... <SNIP> Whew, sorry about the rant, had to get that off my chest.... things are wrong, things in America is wrong, bad wrong... if WE are supposed to be free, and our troops are fighting for our freedom, then why in hell do we have a President taking away our freedoms left and right?

But no matter what, my thoughts and my mind is with the troops over there THINKING they are fighting for our freedoms, probably not even knowing that the President himself is the one taking them away. . . How did we get in this conditions????
[COLOR:RED]EMPHASIS MINE
Just how did we allow ONE SINGLE man so much power????
EMPHASIS MINE
Thought we had laws, but DUBBYA has proven that we only have laws when it is convenient to the gov't.[/color]

THAT QUESTION IS THE ONE I WANT ANSWERED. I want my representative, and your representative to get ON THE BALL, and stop this ursurpation of American Liberties by the DOMINEERING MAN OF GOD WE BARELY ALLOWED INTO THE OVAL OFFICE TWICE.

Ed, the entire United States should demand that answer...we have a right to know how this man got where he is, and is above the law.

You remember back when he started wiretapping, and the judge told him it was illegal, he then told her that he appealed her decision and would continue to wiretap until it reached appeal... now call THAT POWER... I am amazed.

They wanted to impeach Clinton for Monica, and that didn't affect anyone but Bill, Hillary and Monica..

We were going to impeach Nixon for Watergate, another wiretapping thing, but he resigned first..

Now Bush is getting away with EVERYTHING, and I DO MEAN EVERYTHING, and we have slowly been acclimated to it, .... well not anymore...

Americans should DEMAND answers from their local Congressmen and Senators as to WHY he was given this much power to override the Constitution of the United states, by making his own laws, to suit his own needs.... Yet, we are so acclimated to all the rhetoric, that we just allow it to happen.

Someone, somewhere will do something, I dont know what to do, except sign a petition for impeachment, or else take away his check book and take away his and Cheney's power by using the LEGAL means to do so....

I want everyone here to know that the board here to know that any of the last comments I have made referred to sstarns (Southern Patriot) and not to anyone else... All of our Military men on this board deserves respect... mainly because they GIVE respect.

I am sorry if anyone thought I was talking about someone else!!!

Kindred,

I am badly hurt, not by anthing you have said, but by what the Government I pledged allegiance to for my whole life, is doing.
We can stop children, we can pull back, we can pay for the damages of the brawl, and we can beg for mercy and maybe avoid punitive damages, BUT WE ARE GUILTY already of making a war of aggression. And we did not need to.

AMEN well said ed!
and here is a good story on what our "liberation" has done for the Iraqi people
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/08/iraq.refugees/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by PatriotWITHaBrain:
I know enough to know that many-- hell, MOST of you-- will violently disagree with this, and given the prevailing national state of ignorance of the facts of global politics, it is only natural for you to do so. As a REAL American, I strongly support and respect your right to disagree.

Now, on to my point:

At a holiday gathering this weekend, I was with friends watching a hilarious montage of sports bloopers-- you know the ones: skateboard accidents, bobsledding nightmares, rodeos where the bull manages to inflict some kind of hilarious injury to the nether parts of the contestant...

As we laughed, I admitted to my friends that I always secretly root for the bull in these events-- it's an innocent animal being exploited for the amusement of a crowd of inbred idiots who SHOULD be at home teaching their kids to read-- so I feel that the bull is eminently more deserving of my sympathies than the redneck who wasn't smart enough to find a more enlightening hobby than risking his own life in the noble pursuit of tormenting more-or-less defenseless animals.

Ditto the kid who decides that it's a nifty idea to ride his skateboard down a fifty-foot handrail, only to perform a spectacular face-plant on the concrete below-- I can't bring myself to feel sorry for a guy who put himself in that position. Read a book, for %$&@'s sake! Enrich yourself a little! Watch the news and be informed! Take up chess, or golf, or join a softball league! Why knowingly engage in an activity for which human beings were not engineered by whatever Creator in whom you choose to believe? I support your right to DO it, but I'm not going to feel terribly sorry for you.

This got me started thinking about the 3,000-plus American kids-- and let's admit it, they're KIDS-- who have now been killed while occupying a foriegn country whose main offense against the United States seems to be an assassination attempt on Bush the Elder, which is of course a dubious claim for which I've never seen a scintilla of evidence.

I was shocked and appalled at the trend over the last few years of people PROTESTING at the funerals of dead American soldiers. It went against every tenet of my personal system of ethics. But you know what? The more I think about it (and that's been a LOT lately), while I still find the protests at funerals to be uncivilized and indecent, I think I now understand it.

Why?

Because I not only don't support the Occupation of Iraq-- I don't support the troops, either.

Most of you will stop reading at this point to rattle off vicious replies that showcase your lack of information, but for those of you who are intrigued enough to continue reading, here's my justification for NOT signing on with the typical anti-war statement that I "oppose the war, but support the troops".

These kids weren't drafted. Vietnam taught us that any future attempt at a draft would be disastrous and lead to another 1960's-style countercultural revolution, and the fat bastards in Washington far prefer our current sedated, ignorant state of patriotic bliss.

Thus, these kids went and SIGNED UP to go occupy (illegally, as far as I can tell) a foriegn nation, knowing full well that they were placing themselves in great bodily harm and potentially wrecking their loving families who might have to stand over their freshly-dug graves crying the way their child "sacrificed" his life for his country.

I call "BS" on this one. Iraq wasn't going to hurt us in a million years-- they wouldn't have been capable of hurting ANYONE without all the poison gas and other assorted death toys that Don Rumsfeld and other American dip***** passed out like lollipops back in the 70's and 80's.

If these soldiers weren't well-informed enough to take think better of taking a highly dangerous job that pays so little that they would qualify for food stamps, than I think perhaps that every time one of them dies from "insurgent" sniper fire or an IED, that's Darwin at work. Weeding out those who aren't savvy, hip, or educated enough to understand the news (maybe they were watching Fox News, but that's only further proves my point-- Fox News has been indisputably proven to be a woefully pathetic source of "news" and is really just a propaganda tool of the Republicans).

It's sad that these dead occupiers leave behind young widows and fatherless children, but in truth, perhaps those children will have a chance at a better life if their moms marry a guy who has the good sense to know the difference between "national duty" and "participating in a calculated effort to destabilize the Middle East, steal a bunch of oil, and avenge the humiliation of Bush the Elder by removing Saddam". Such a stepfather would likely do a far better job at raising the child of a dead American soldier than said soldier would have done had he survived the occupation.

It's nobody's obligation to "serve" America by participating in this war. Iraq was NOT involved in 9/11, but 9/11 WAS the driving emotional force behind MANY of the enlistments. Occupying Iraq is NOT a "service to America" or a "fight for justice"-- it's jackbooted thuggery in which we are stealing natural resources from a nation with a soverign who, while a terrible, brutal bastard, was really as much a legitimate soverign as George W. Bush, and probably his intellectual superior.

Oh, and what about the rapes, murders, and wholesale pillage of the innocent Iraqis who have now been dragged into a vicious civil war? Am I really supposed to go around supporting a gang of murderous, oil-thieving "soldiers" who have already killed FAR more INNOCENT Iraqis than Saddam managed to harm in twenty-odd years of absolutist rule?

So what we've got here is a bunch of kids who either:

1) took a foolish risk to seek adventure, and paid the price, just like the guy who gets his chest caved in by a rodeo bull, or;

2) were so misinformed and misled that they thought they were fighting for "justice" and "freedom", and paid the price for that stupidity and gullibility, or;

3) people who thought it would be neat to tote a machine gun and "avenge" the USA for 9/11 by capping a few and , and paid the price for that stupidity, or;

4) people who thought that it would be a good way to pay for a college education, and paid a much higher price than college could ever have cost. For the record, I was hip enough to know that student loans and grants are easily obtained, and I survive to type this message equipped with a master's degree and my brain still in my head instead of splattered on some Baghdad highway alongside the wreckage of a poorly-armored troop transport. If these kids thought risking their lives to sack a country was the best ticket to a college education, I say to their grieving families: Pell Grants. Stafford Loans. Work studies.

My sympathy, therefore, hereafter goes to the innocents of the world who are being victimized daily by various tyrants, genocidal maniacs, and religious fundamentalists. No longer will I feel compelled to recite the liberal talking point about "opposing the war, but supporting the toops". My support has better and more legitimate causes on which to be expended.

My compassion goes out to all the families of anyone injured or killed in Iraq or any of our other farcical military campaigns-- but it's really more PITY-- pity that those people were placed in a state of grief that could have been avoided by teaching thier children to have a better grasp of the reality of global politics and the inherent brutality of war. These soldiers are for the most part innocent pawns in the Bush Plan to turn the Middle East into an America-friendly golf resort/oil distribution hub, and I regret that they fell into the trap.

But I knew enough to save my family such misery, and those who didn't are not getting my "support" any more. From now on, they're just going to get my sense of regret that they weren't a little smarter.

O.K now boys and girls, we can debate till the cows come home how Bush was wrong or right.The facts are simple. If I am in the U.S.army and my C.O. tells me we are being deployed to bla bla it is not my job to ask why. But it IS my duty to follow orders. The military IS NOT an only if I want to job. It IS a Sir,YES SIR.job. And as far as not supporting our young and older people in uniform as you stated in your 1st post get it right!! This thread has been knocked off your post by 'should we or should we not be there' Your post sir, was a simple I DO NOT support our troops. LET'S NOT change the subject as you have cleaverly done. And let us not allow us to be mislead. Start another post for goodness sake. You are who you are and you sir are someone that would go to Canada.

quote:

Originally posted by themax:
O.K now boys and girls, we can debate till the cows come home how Bush was wrong or right.The facts are simple. If I am in the U.S.army and my C.O. tells me we are being deployed to bla bla it is not my job to ask why. But it IS my duty to follow orders. The military IS NOT an only if I want to job. It IS a Sir,YES SIR.job. And as far as not supporting our young and older people in uniform as you stated in your 1st post get it right!! This thread has been knocked off your post by 'should we or should we not be there' Your post sir, was a simple I DO NOT support our troops. LET'S NOT change the subject as you have cleaverly done. And let us not allow us to be mislead. Start another post for goodness sake. You are who you are and you sir are someone that would go to Canada.

There is another Topic that addresses this particular issue. Lt Watada goes to trial soon.
THERE IS A COURTS MARTIAL COMING IN REGARDS TO THE OBEDIENCE TO ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ.
1st Lt Ehren Watada refused to obey his order to go to Iraq.
He took his first deployment, NOT TO THE MIDDLE EAST, but he refused this one. Watada is an outstanding soldier, his commission was granted as a Second Lt...after 9/11, he was fast tracked to First Lt. His entire defense is the OBLIGATION of a soldier to REFUSE illegal orders.

Not illegal.

I even asked JAG about it last week (see my earlier post). They showed me the legal regs, etc. where Congress authorized it, POTUS ordered it. Closed case.

By whose laws do you make it illegal, France??? Why, I found French and German made, as well as Warsaw Pact, CHICOM, and PDRK made war material over there.....UN? I got to see first hand why the UN didn't want us over there in the first place...I saw the the results of the former UN's Secretary General's son and his double dealings.... UN oil for food, err, oil for palace program over there...even slept in 3 of them (even though the roofs were bombed out). I saw the result of what happens when totalitarianism is allowed to run rampant: mass graves, torture chambers, etc.....

Yeah..illegal order my rear end...You guys sound like Neville Chamberlain, failed Prime Minister of the UK, in 1938.."...what I have here, gentlemen, is the treaty signed earlier today between Herr Hitler and myself, pledging that our peoples will never go to war again.... have peace in our time..." 1 year later, World War II begain in Europe, due to appeasement.

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:
Apparently I didn't make myself clear. I am not trying to flaunt how smart I may or may not be, neither am I defending why our troops are in Iraq. I don't like that we are there either. My point is that our troops are there, not by their own choosing, and we as a country should support THE TROOPS and their families. Saying they get what they deserve (being killed) just for signing up for military service is detestable, and anyone who spews this garbage is beneath contempt.

Resa, if I misunderstood your last comment, I am sorry... what you just said is very true, and I agree with you, 100%. No one can find anyone who joined the Military to get killed, their hearts were in the right place.

I don't agree with the cause of our being in Iraq, but I do support our Troops!!!! If, as an older woman, I could do anything to make their lives better, I certainly would try!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:
This is in response to the post by Patriotwithoutabrain. You are so far beneath contempt, that words to tell you how I feel about the things you have said here fail me. And, before you start in about anyone who disagrees with you is less educated than you, let me tell you I also have a college degree. In nursing. I suppose if I am injured by a patient or contract a contagious disease it is my own fault for going into the profession that will put me at risk. And, according to your way of thinking, policemen, who also risk their lives daily to protect the likes of you, deserve to be killed by a criminal, because they should have known better than to go into such a dangerous profession. According to what you have said, any profession or occupation that places a person in danger or at any risk, is less than honorable, and those people deserve whatever harm may befall them.
The impression I have of you are that you are a spineless coward, undeserving of having your freedoms, safety and priveleges protected, even though any soldier, my son included, will protect your right to spew such trash, WITH THEIR VERY LIVES!!!!
And, to all of you who have posted replies to this maniacs point of view agreeing with any part of what he has said, you should be ashamed of yourselves. It's people (and I use the term loosely) like him that need to have their own little passivist country so they can sit back and read their books to their little incompassionate hearts content.
To all the military people who have read this forum, the only thing he got right was in response to one post where he thanked you for your service, but that you had risked your life for nothing. He's the nothing!!
This whole post has made me so angry. My son is a soldier in the US Army National Guard. The next time we have a natural disaster, you should know who will be helping you. It will be the very people you have blasted with your unbelievable garbage.
And, don't bother responding by pointing out that I am not as intelligent as you by differing with you. If you are the mark for intelligence, I would prefer to be the dumbest creature on the face of the earth!

I am NOT ashamed of anything I say, anything I feel, or anything I KNOW. It is those of you who refuse to SEE or HEAR what is happening in our Nation who should be ashamed.

Read the replies, because you obviously have NOT, or otherwise, don't try to flaunt how 'smart' you are and pretend the rest of us are dumb.

Read Ed's reply... we have a man in the oval office who stole the first election, and barely even beat KERRY!... KERRY, lol... he almost beat Bush, and that even makes me laugh.

Over 2/3 of the Nation agree with most of the comments of these people who bared their soul... but you, sadly, remain in the 1/3 who refuse to admit there are things wrong, BAD wrong with these last 6 years.

About a billion dollars a day is going overseas, and we dont even pretend to take care of our very own children right here at home. Does anyone see we have HUNGRY people right here in the US? Kids that don't even have winter coats, kids that barely even survive, and I won't even go into medical.... but LETS SEND THAT BILLION DOLLARS A DAY OVERSEAS!!!! Lets Not even THINK about stopping that, or even curtailing it...

That is NOT our country, and that is NOT our people...

I support the Troops (mauiboy especially via emails) but not the causes that we are there, it is none of our business how a country makes their laws.

Some of the laws made in the last 6 months here in the US were illegally made, so we cannot even make OUR laws right, and now we expect to nose in on someone else's HOUSE and make THEIR laws...

That is a country and culture we cannot nor will not EVER change, they are who they are, and always will be.

And if your son is here helping with Natural Disasters, then I applaud him, he is HERE, helping OUR people... how rewarding. Our troops are over there, doing their jobs too, but we do NOT know if they like it or not... the news is just too biased to know the "rest of the story" ...

Apparently I didn't make myself clear. I am not trying to flaunt how smart I may or may not be, neither am I defending why our troops are in Iraq. I don't like that we are there either. My point is that our troops are there, not by their own choosing, and we as a country should support THE TROOPS and their families. Saying they get what they deserve (being killed) just for signing up for military service is detestable, and anyone who spews this garbage is beneath contempt.

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by resa1865:
This is in response to the post by Patriotwithoutabrain. You are so far beneath contempt, that words to tell you how I feel about the things you have said here fail me. And, before you start in about anyone who disagrees with you is less educated than you, let me tell you I also have a college degree. In nursing. I suppose if I am injured by a patient or contract a contagious disease it is my own fault for going into the profession that will put me at risk. And, according to your way of thinking, policemen, who also risk their lives daily to protect the likes of you, deserve to be killed by a criminal, because they should have known better than to go into such a dangerous profession. According to what you have said, any profession or occupation that places a person in danger or at any risk, is less than honorable, and those people deserve whatever harm may befall them.
The impression I have of you are that you are a spineless coward, undeserving of having your freedoms, safety and priveleges protected, even though any soldier, my son included, will protect your right to spew such trash, WITH THEIR VERY LIVES!!!!
And, to all of you who have posted replies to this maniacs point of view agreeing with any part of what he has said, you should be ashamed of yourselves. It's people (and I use the term loosely) like him that need to have their own little passivist country so they can sit back and read their books to their little incompassionate hearts content.
To all the military people who have read this forum, the only thing he got right was in response to one post where he thanked you for your service, but that you had risked your life for nothing. He's the nothing!!
This whole post has made me so angry. My son is a soldier in the US Army National Guard. The next time we have a natural disaster, you should know who will be helping you. It will be the very people you have blasted with your unbelievable garbage.
And, don't bother responding by pointing out that I am not as intelligent as you by differing with you. If you are the mark for intelligence, I would prefer to be the dumbest creature on the face of the earth!

I am NOT ashamed of anything I say, anything I feel, or anything I KNOW. It is those of you who refuse to SEE or HEAR what is happening in our Nation who should be ashamed.

Read the replies, because you obviously have NOT, or otherwise, don't try to flaunt how 'smart' you are and pretend the rest of us are dumb.

Read Ed's reply... we have a man in the oval office who stole the first election, and barely even beat KERRY!... KERRY, lol... he almost beat Bush, and that even makes me laugh.

Over 2/3 of the Nation agree with most of the comments of these people who bared their soul... but you, sadly, remain in the 1/3 who refuse to admit there are things wrong, BAD wrong with these last 6 years.

About a billion dollars a day is going overseas, and we dont even pretend to take care of our very own children right here at home. Does anyone see we have HUNGRY people right here in the US? Kids that don't even have winter coats, kids that barely even survive, and I won't even go into medical.... but LETS SEND THAT BILLION DOLLARS A DAY OVERSEAS!!!! Lets Not even THINK about stopping that, or even curtailing it...

That is NOT our country, and that is NOT our people...

I support the Troops (mauiboy especially via emails) but not the causes that we are there, it is none of our business how a country makes their laws.

Some of the laws made in the last 6 months here in the US were illegally made, so we cannot even make OUR laws right, and now we expect to nose in on someone else's HOUSE and make THEIR laws...

That is a country and culture we cannot nor will not EVER change, they are who they are, and always will be.

And if your son is here helping with Natural Disasters, then I applaud him, he is HERE, helping OUR people... how rewarding. Our troops are over there, doing their jobs too, but we do NOT know if they like it or not... the news is just too biased to know the "rest of the story" ...

Apparently I didn't make myself clear. I am not trying to flaunt how smart I may or may not be, neither am I defending why our troops are in Iraq. I don't like that we are there either. My point is that our troops are there, not by their own choosing, and we as a country should support THE TROOPS and their families. Saying they get what they deserve (being killed) just for signing up for military service is detestable, and anyone who spews this garbage is beneath contempt.

I remember what I said, but I guess I was just retaliating to what you said and the way you said it, but what I did say was valid, due to that comment...

My last sentence should have told you (and others) should have told you that I DO support our Troops AND your son... and I do agree with what you said in your last comment...

quote:

Originally posted by Brentenman:
Not illegal.

I even asked JAG about it last week (see my earlier post). They showed me the legal regs, etc. where Congress authorized it, POTUS ordered it. Closed case.

By whose laws do you make it illegal, France??? Why, I found French and German made, as well as Warsaw Pact, CHICOM, and PDRK made war material over there.....UN? I got to see first hand why the UN didn't want us over there in the first place...I saw the the results of the former UN's Secretary General's son and his double dealings.... UN oil for food, err, oil for palace program over there...even slept in 3 of them (even though the roofs were bombed out). I saw the result of what happens when totalitarianism is allowed to run rampant: mass graves, torture chambers, etc.....

Yeah..illegal order my rear end...You guys sound like Neville Chamberlain, failed Prime Minister of the UK, in 1938.."...what I have here, gentlemen, is the treaty signed earlier today between Herr Hitler and myself, pledging that our peoples will never go to war again.... have peace in our time..." 1 year later, World War II begain in Europe, due to appeasement.

Brent, I am not going to argue with your first-hand knowledge, because I know you have been there, and I haven't.

Only thing I would say here is that TOTALITARINISM is a scary word right now, especially due to dubbya's resistance to do things the way he is supposed to and refuses to do it right. A President is NOT supposed to MAKE law, that is what we have all the other people for... When a President refuses to abide by a judges order, and goes ahead with HIS plan, it is dangerous to all of us.

Sorry guys,... just trying to push some of the spam posts down a little... this comment has no substance, LOL..

IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE

POSTER BOY FOR TROOP SUPPORT??

As some of you have no doubt noticed, I've been steering clear of this thread for a few days, and, honestly, been doing some soul-searching of my own about my feelings on the matter.

I DO still believe that many of those who joined the military in full knowledge of the shabby premise for the occupation of Iraq made a decision with which I do not agree, and did so at great risk to their lives. I DO want EACH AND EVERY American in the Middle Eastern Theater of Operations to return home safe and in one piece.

Mauiboy (be safe, partner...we need you and your friends back here, alive) and others have made some excellent points, and given my intensely high level of compassion for ALL of humanity, I will say that I support their safe return home while continuing to disagree with their motives for joining and with the operation they are being directed to conduct. I think it's vile and disgusting, and I would be furious if I were in the military and realized I was being used as a jackbooted thug under the guise of "freedom" and "justice" and "peace". I still DON'T think the personal freedoms of ANY American have been enhanced in any way by the operation, and conversely MANY American lives have been wrecked-- not just the soldiers (thanks for the capitalization rules, Rednevednav, you saved me from having to look those up to straighten out what's-his-name-- and by the way, Red, the Stained Mecca guys are about six years or so older than me, and the few times I got to see them play are memories I shan't soon forget) but those of the families and friends left behind to ponder the terrible fate of their loved one for decades to come.

I mainly came back to clear up any doubt as to the rape-and-murder some of our brave young men saw fit to carry out-- if it makes you uncomfortable or uneasy or mad to read about it, then you should examine your underlying delusions about the reality of war.

Oh, and (hopefully) finally, I would like to say that the post by "Tomkat", which some of you applauded (Nashbama in particular) could not have missed the point of the post to which is purportedly responded by a wider margin. I NEVER implied that we don't need well-rounded children with athletic ability and physical health. Never.

I can't drive down the road without having my eyes violated by "Chase #9" and "Brianna Co-Head Cheerleader" stickers on the windows of SUVs.

I can't think of any parent of young children (the Mrs. and I are waiting until we've settled into career-level jobs to start our own family) who isn't constantly running around like a madman (or madwoman) taking their kids from soccer to softball to karate to baseball practice. I think that physical activity comes naturally to kids, but that mental development requires excellent parenting and the encouragement of reading.

I didn't want to even respond to "Tomkat"'s suggestion that I was encouraging parents to encourage their children to sit around eating eggs on toast and watching Murder She Wrote. I think they should eat a balanced diet and excercise daily, be involved in extracurricular activities and sports, and STILL enrich thier minds by being well-informed about current events and by experiencing the great literary works of human history, which hold lessons that are still highly applicable to the world in which we live today. "Nashbama" obviously felt better about being athletic-but-semi-literate after reading "Tomkat"'s post, as did some of the rest of you, but this is not a black-and-white matter with two choices: Egghead With No Common Sense vs. Athletic Dumba%$.

I manage to participate, along with Mrs. Brain, in a number of outdoor activities and even a couple of physically-demanding competitive ones, but you know what? Before we go to sleep at night (and after having thoroughly satisfied each other's carnal desires), we turn Jay Leno's unfunny show off and read (separate) books for a while before going to sleep. On my nightstand right now is a copy of Stephen Ambrose's magnificent book about the European campaign of the summer and fall of 1944.

Anyway, for anyone who doesn't know it by now:


Charlotte, N.C. (AP) -- Federal prosecutors accused a U.S. soldier Monday of raping and murdering a young Iraqi woman and gunning down her family, all of whose bodies were found burned in an apparent cover-up.

Steven D. Green, a 21-year-old former Army private first class, who was recently discharged because of a "personality disorder," appeared Monday in a federal magistrate's courtroom in Charlotte.

The murder and rape charges against him grew out of a military investigation involving as many as five soldiers in the alleged rape and killing of a young woman in Mahmoudiya. Three of the woman's relatives were also killed in the incident -- one of them a girl believed to be about 5.

Prosecutors said that Green and others entered the home of a family of Iraqi civilians, where Green shot the three relatives, then he and another soldier raped the woman and killed her. According to an accompanying affidavit, photos taken by Army investigators in March showed a burned body of "what appears to be a woman with blankets thrown over her upper torso."

FBI agents arrested Green on Friday in Marion, N.C. He is being held in Charlotte without bond pending a transfer to Louisville, Ky.

The case is being handled by federal prosecutors there because Green, who served 11 months with the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., is no longer in the military. According to an affidavit filed with the criminal complaint, he was given an honorable discharge "before this incident came to light. Green was discharged due to a personality disorder."

He faces a possible death sentence if convicted of murder.

In Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman, Maj. Joseph Breasseale, said "at this time" no other charges have been filed in the Mahmoudiya case.

The mayor of Mahmoudiya, Mouayad Fadhil, said Monday that Iraqi authorities had started their own investigation. He said U.S. Army officers were also seeking permission to exhume one of the bodies; the U.S. military declined to comment on the report because the investigation is ongoing.

The age of the rape victim was also unclear. U.S. officials close to the case have described her as a young woman, and FBI documents estimated her age at 25, but a neighbor of the family said the rape victim was 14 and her sister was 10.

The affidavit filed in Green's case by FBI special agent Gregor J. Ahlers of Louisville said Green and three other soldiers from the 101st's 502nd Infantry Regiment were working a traffic checkpoint in Mahmoudiya on March 12 when they conspired to rape a woman who lived nearby.

According to the affidavit's account, the soldiers changed their clothes before going to the woman's residence to avoid detection. Once there, the affidavit said, Green took three members of the family -- an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old -- into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside.

"Green came to the bedroom door and told everyone, 'I just killed them. All are dead,'" the affidavit said.

The affidavit is based on interviews conducted by the FBI and investigators at Fort Campbell with three unidentified soldiers assigned to Green's platoon. One of the soldiers said he witnessed another soldier and Green rape the woman.

"After the rape, (the soldier) witnessed Green shoot the woman in the head two to three times," the affidavit said.

Ahlers said in the affidavit that he also reviewed photos taken by Army investigators in Iraq of bodies found inside a burned house, including photos of an Iraqi man, woman and young girl who all appear to have died of gunshot wounds. He said he also reviewed a photo of a burned body of "what appears to be a woman with blankets thrown over her upper torso."

An official familiar with details of the investigation in Iraq has told The Associated Press that a flammable liquid was used to burn the rape victim's body in a cover-up attempt. U.S. officials have said they believed the victims were killed in sectarian violence.

On Friday, the U.S. military acknowledged that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family in Mahmoudiya.

Four members of the 502nd have had their weapons taken away and were confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya, officials said.

The suspects belong to the same unit as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad last month, a military official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way.

The military has said that one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

According to the affidavit filed Monday, investigators learned of the March 12 attack during a combat stress debriefing that occurred around June 20.

Green will have a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing on July 10 in Charlotte, and will then be brought to Louisville, said Marisa Ford, chief of the criminal division for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Louisville.