Why Is Profit a Dirty Word?

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Under unions and higher taxes on the wealthy we enjoyed the best of economic times and workers shared in those benefits.

...and then they ran all of the industry out of town and nobody had a job at all.

THE END

Unions over inflate wages and benefits, competition keeps them fair. Unions only encourage companies to move production to other countries and drive product prices up. That's why Detroit is dying and most Ford cars are made in Mexico.

In some cases, unions can help such as with the teachers union. You have to be organized to try and get a fair deal from a government agency with no competition. With business however, if you want the best workers, you have to pay for them. If you're not willing to pay for the best, the quality of the products go down and the entire company suffers.

Pogo, your whole idea of paying back in accordance with what you get out is fine, if you pay back the same ones you get from.
If your boss decides to pay you more, what extra has the government done for you that entitles them to more money?
The federal government subsidizes, through various programs, low-income people. Should they not be required to pay in more since they're getting more?

What if I paid a guy $10,000 to re-roof my house and the feds say we'll take 10% ($1,000) for services rendered. Now my neighbor sees what a great job he has done and decides to get the same guy to re-roof his house. Now the feds say"since you worked so hard and made $20,000 we think we'll take 20% ($4,000). Now they're getting $4,000 instead of $2,000 ($1,000 for each house). Why should the government get more because this guy worked harder?

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Why should the government get more because this guy worked harder?

To pay the other guy a fair wage who isn't working as hard. That's what socialism is, taking money from those who work and distributing it to those who don't.

I believe every individual is responsible for themselves and should have the freedom to work and earn as much as they want without government interference.

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Originally posted by Pogo142:
To begin with the very wealthy are not paying their fair share of taxes and the burden falls on the middle class. 1% of the population has as much wealth as 90%. The wealth is being concentrated in the hands of a few.

Again, we would like to see some proof that the rich are not paying their share. It has already been proven that they pay most of the taxes that keep the government going. Where is any substantial evidence of what you claim? Just because 1% have as much wealth as 90%, that doesn't prove anything about the taxes they paid. Sounds more like a jealous rant.

Profit is great, and I am all for them, UNLESS they have to step on real people to get it... then Karma takes over, and soon that will do a topsy turvy... And all the mumbo jumbo talking isn't going to change the fact that the people making profit are doing it at the expense of thousands, if not millions of people... how great they are, right? ... Wrong, when one has to hurt others for the almighty dollar, they are in bad shape already, and no amount of talking it out will change that.

Those are the things I am grateful for in this life, and have lived long enough to see it all play out!!!

Funny Nash how you say that "Unions over inflate wages and benefits, competition keeps them fair. Unions only encourage companies to move production to other countries and drive product prices up. That's why Detroit is dying and most Ford cars are made in Mexico."

When they moved these companies their profits went up. Then you defend their right to make those profits. What about the American worker? You tell me they have no rights to share in the profit with decent wages and benefits. You criticize the worker for making money but not the CEO's and Wall Street.

What kind of "competition" is it when the American worker is competing against exploited workers in sweatshops receiving a dollar or less or a little more an hour? That's not fair competition. That's why we need international unions.

Corporations have been gobbling up companies, "downsizing" and shipping jobs off to 3rd world countries for sweatshop labor, and you defend it then turn around and tell me the American workers are too greedy. Turn off your corporate TV's.

The minute we talk about the very wealthy paying their fair share of taxes these high paid millionaire Corporate Media "Talking Head Pundits" conjure up images of the government taking all your money. Right away you have this "knee jerk" reaction to jump up and defend the right of the very wealthy to rip you off. They are taking the middle classes money now because the wealthy are not paying their fair share.

I am not talking about the middle class worker who gets a raise, I am talking about CEO's, millionaires and billionaires. They are not paying their fair share.

Corporations are recording record profits, record salaries and bonuses, Wall Street and investors, everywhere but the average worker. Who is producing.

It's a fact, look it up. 1% of the population has as much wealth as 90%. You will have to search though cause it's not something they blast on TV everyday.

The American worker is not only getting "hurt" they are getting killed.

You are misrepresenting the facts. Here is the full context of your 1% own 90% of the wealth quote:


"The richest 1% of the population now owns almost 35% of all the private wealth in America, more than the bottom 90% of the population combined." - The Wealth Inequality Reader (edited by Dollars & Sense and United for a Fair Economy),p. vii

What is wealth? Simply stated wealth includes items of economic value like money, real estate and personal property. The reason that the numbers are so disproportionate is because many Americans have no desire to accumulate wealth. Instead they willingly and eagerly accumulate debt. Find a relevant catch-phrase to shout out.

I failed to find that particular fact either. Thanks TSC for clearing that up. Theres a big difference in having 90% of the wealth and having more than 90% of the people. I'm sure that percentage will rise after they legalize 12 million immigrants. I wonder how that's going to "help" the American worker. Perhaps Hillary can explain it.

After we get the illegal aliens under control then this country needs to get personal debt and spending under control.

If a person makes $50,000 per year and has $20,000 in student loans, a $20,000 car note, $5,000 in credit card debt, $1,000 in their checking account and $500 in their savings account, with a $150,000 mortgage - they have no wealth. They sure as heck aren't poor - they are well above the poverty level, but they don't have jack. The wealth argument is just not relevant. We live in a society fixated on STUFF. The desire to have more stuff tears down the opportunity to build wealth. It also fuels the deficit (as we all know you can get more, cheaper stuff from China then made here in the USA) and that in turn hurts our job market. Illegals are only a fraction of the problem. Americans are the real problem.

You must be a Dave Ramsey listener too.
Didn't you know that "life takes Visa" and cash slows everything down. At least that's what the commercials say.
I stopped in Krystal the other day for a snack and my total was a little over $3. The girl behind the counter said "cash or charge". I know they train them to ask that, so after I said "cash", I thought to myself, "if you don't have $3 you don't need to be in Krystal".

Yes, what is wealth? Money, real estate, stock. I am not talking about the average person who has a mortgage and a car, or two, etc. I am talking about billionaires and multi millionaires. There is actually an income gap between the Billionaires and other millionaires.

They have billions and multi millions in money, real estate, stock and "Things" which you condemn the American people for wanting. Yachts, numerous expensive cars and limousines, jets, mansions around the country and world. They have these things because of work yes but also low wages, exploitation and a tax system that allows them not to pay back into the system. I am not talking about taking all their money or taxing the middle class. Stop bringing up examples of average people, these are the people who are being penalized by an unfair tax system. I am talking about raising the taxes on these billionaires so they pay more in accordance to what they have and take out of the system. It's a basic principle of Capitalism.

And there is nothing wrong with the American people wanting things. They work and produce. Productivity is up in America and the American worker is one of the leaders in productivity in the world. They deserve fair wages for their labor but they are not getting them. If thery had fair wages they could afford "Things."

We need unions and international unions and a fair tax system. People have to organize, unionize and elect candidates that repesent them and turn to the alternative independent media that represnts them.

Turn off your TV, it fills your head with nonsense. It tells you there's nothing wrong with making money, if your rich, but if your an average wroker then your greedy.

TV isn't filling my head with anything. I would bet that I watch less TV than you do, on average.

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Stop bringing up examples of average people, these are the people who are being penalized by an unfair tax system. I am talking about raising the taxes on these billionaires so they pay more in accordance to what they have and take out of the system. It's a basic principle of Capitalism.

"Average People" are the backbone of this country. If they don't straighten up and fly right, then they will destroy this nation. It's not Bill Gate's fault that the majority of Americans would rather have a cheap product made in China than a not-so inexpensive cheap product made in the USA. We are giving our own jobs away. No one is doing it for us. If the American people demanded that the products that we buy be "MADE IN THE USA" then the big, mean, horrible, greedy, corporate fat cats would comply. Supply and Demand - a basic principle of capitalism.

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And there is nothing wrong with the American people wanting things. They work and produce. Productivity is up in America and the American worker is one of the leaders in productivity in the world. They deserve fair wages for their labor but they are not getting them. If thery had fair wages they could afford "Things."

There is nothing wrong with wanting things. There is a LOT wrong with acquiring things that you cannot afford and that is what Americans are doing. Let's take your average family here in America. Two adults who work full time, two kids. They make about $120,000 per year (combined gross). They have a $300,000 house, two car payments (around $35,000 in cars), $25,000 in student loans and $15,000 in credit card debt. On top of that, they have the payments for the new furniture, the pool, the new front loading washer and dryer they wanted, and the HELOC they just took out to pay for a family vacation to the beach. They are Americans and they work hard! They deserve these things, so they should have them. WRONG!. It is those regular Joes, the middle class working family who can't see past the debt up to their eyeballs that are killing America. Not Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

I have never criticized anyone including the American worker for making money, Pogo. We all have the right to make whatever money we can. I'm just not in favor of people taking away my money to give to others not working as hard as I am.

There is one simply rule in life, no one deserves anything. Everything we have in this life is earned. We earn our food, clothes, home, and any extras. If we don't work, we don't earn. People like you think that because someone is making money, everyone else deserves a cut of it. That's total crap. If you choose to drop out of high school and work a $6 hour job, that's what you deserve. If you finish college and work a $40k a year job, that's what you deserve. If you start your own company and make millions, that's what you deserve. The notion that we deserve what others have is very dangerous and history proves it does not work.

nash I do agree with what you are saying,but also i see where pogo is coming from,,to a point. Does the average Joe,making oh say $60,000 a yr have a TEAM of tax attornys at his beck and call? Does this average Joe have the money to "court" politicians for his own business purposes? Does the average Joe have accountants "cooking the books" for him?
I really think there is a lesson to be learned for ALL of America from the Enron scandal on just how things DO work in reality for a large majority of the super wealthy.

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Does the average Joe,making oh say $60,000 a yr have a TEAM of tax attornys at his beck and call?

If he needs them, he can hire them.

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Does this average Joe have the money to "court" politicians for his own business purposes?

What business purposes does Average Joe making $60,000 a year have that he would need to lobby politicians?

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Does the average Joe have accountants "cooking the books" for him?

Is he dishonest? If so, then either he is cooking is own book or he can hire someone to do it for him.

I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from with your questions, smurph.

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nash I do agree with what you are saying,but also i see where pogo is coming from,,to a point. Does the average Joe,making oh say $60,000 a yr have a TEAM of tax attornys at his beck and call? Does this average Joe have the money to "court" politicians for his own business purposes? Does the average Joe have accountants "cooking the books" for him?
I really think there is a lesson to be learned for ALL of America from the Enron scandal on just how things DO work in reality for a large majority of the super wealthy.

Why does an average Joe need all of that? I have a nice CPA that takes care of my taxes, my wife and I take care of our personal finance at the moment. There are plenty of personal financial planners that are very affordable and knowledgeable out there. I don't see why the average Joe needs any of that. In fact, many rich people don't have that either. My wife's uncle is a multi-millionaire and he doesn't use a team of accountants or lawyers. He's content to run his business and have the family out to his farm.

If I work for you and I agree to a wage, that's what I deserve regardless of what you make. If I don't like it, I'm free to quit and work for someone else that offers better or start my own business. My job skills are available to the highest bidder. If you're not willing to pay me what I think I'm worth, you lose my skills to the competition. That's how the free market works and when left alone it works well. People change jobs and renegotiate pay all the time.

We are all responsible for ourselves and our own welfare. We should not look to others or the government to take care of us.

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Originally posted by Pogo142:
Yes, what is wealth? Money, real estate, stock. I am not talking about the average person who has a mortgage and a car, or two, etc. I am talking about billionaires and multi millionaires. There is actually an income gap between the Billionaires and other millionaires.

They have billions and multi millions in money, real estate, stock and "Things" which you condemn the American people for wanting. Yachts, numerous expensive cars and limousines, jets, mansions around the country and world. They have these things because of work yes but also low wages, exploitation and a tax system that allows them not to pay back into the system. I am not talking about taking all their money or taxing the middle class. Stop bringing up examples of average people, these are the people who are being penalized by an unfair tax system. I am talking about raising the taxes on these billionaires so they pay more in accordance to what they have and take out of the system. It's a basic principle of Capitalism.

No one is condemning anyone for wanting anything. We are condemning people who live above their means. Not everyone can have jets, yachts, mansions. I don't. I don't mind someone else having it though. And who do you think you are to tell anyone that they should pay taxes based on what they have? Do you know what they did to get those things? No. And they certainly are not taking "out of the system" as you like to say. These so called millionaires and billionaires you have so much dislike for receive less benefits from "the system" than almost anyone. They don't need the benefits. They don't need social security. They don't need welfare. They don't need food stamps. They don't need free education. They receive almost no benefits from the system you argue so strongly that they should contribute more to. What kind of screwed up definition of fair do you believe in? That people should have to support something that doesn't and won't ever benefit them so others can enjoy an easy life? You know, you're right...I wish people would have to pay in according to what they take out. That's a wonderful idea. If that was the case the poor would be poorer, because they benefit from the "system" more than anyone. And don't claim to defend the average middle class working American. The reason they are penalized by an unfair tax system is not because the rich don't pay enough, it's because the poor don't contribute enough and suck up all the benefits.

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And there is nothing wrong with the American people wanting things. They work and produce. Productivity is up in America and the American worker is one of the leaders in productivity in the world. They deserve fair wages for their labor but they are not getting them. If they had fair wages they could afford "Things."

No, there is nothing wrong with people wanting things. But live within your means. Everyone is NOT entitled to two cars in the driveway, a 3 bedroom house, a cell phone for each member of the family, free school, free medicine, a steak dinner every night, etc. Maybe wages are fair, and these people that can't seem to make it on them are living above their means. As someone else said, cut up the credit cards, save for retirement and the future, quit eating out all the time, and take some responsibility for your situation. If you dropped out of high school or college and you are making $9.00 an hour, live with it. You made the choice. Just because you are digging a ditch and it's hard work, you aren't entitled to anything.

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We need unions and international unions and a fair tax system. People have to organize, unionize and elect candidates that repesent them and turn to the alternative independent media that represnts them.

You're right again. We need a fair tax system. Let's tax everyone the same percent of their income. Then you can't say that the rich aren't paying their share. They will be paying the same as you and me. Or let's abolish the income tax system and IRS and go to a straight sales tax. Every item has a federal sales tax placed on it, and then everyone pays the same. That would be fair.

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Turn off your TV, it fills your head with nonsense. It tells you there's nothing wrong with making money, if your rich, but if your an average wroker then your greedy.

Again the average worker is not the problem. If he makes higher wages, the government is just going to take more from him and give to the poor. Besides, he will be paid what he is worth. If he thinks he is worth more than he is making, he can find a better paying job. It's called freedom. You stop the social entitlement program abuses in this country, or better yet do away with them completely, then I'll be on board for higher worker wages.

where i am coming from is simple. Wealthy ,by the majority beat their taxes as much as possible,to INCLUDE illegal activities covered up and buried by their high dollar attorneys and accountants. Everyday Joes do just as stated, they hire an accountant,tax attorney.
I personally know one wealthy couple ,he and his wife(they are also business partners) beat the tax game and have for years. they "own" several non-existant business holdings,its a big joke to them.

I take exception to your statement that the majority of the wealthy are crooked. Theft is a problem at all socio-economic levels. The wealthy business owner cheats the system out of paying his fair share of taxes, while the poor welfare recipients create tax stubs to collect more than their fare share out of it. It is sickening to the honest people who just want to work hard and earn a living.

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where i am coming from is simple. Wealthy ,by the majority beat their taxes as much as possible,to INCLUDE illegal activities covered up and buried by their high dollar attorneys and accountants. Everyday Joes do just as stated, they hire an accountant,tax attorney.
I personally know one wealthy couple ,he and his wife(they are also business partners) beat the tax game and have for years. they "own" several non-existant business holdings,its a big joke to them.

If they get caught, they'll be held accountable. There is such thing as someone who is wealthy and honest. Besides, middle class people try to cheat the system as well.

What did the IRS say when you informed them about these people you know?

glad you asked that,,NOT ONE THING!NADDA,never even questioned.
MONEY TALKS,and that is what those high dollar attorneys are for.

Unless you fill out Form 3949-A and submit it to the IRS, they can't really do anything. That document helps to make sure that some vindictive ex-wife isn't just trying to mess with their ex-husband.

If you suspect that their tax CPAs, Attorneys or Enrolled Agents are committing fraud you can email a referal form to OPR@IRS.GOV. Investigations take weeks, sometimes months or even years to complete. If you follow the procedures, these people should be suffering the consequences in due time.

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Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
At a recent press conference Sen. John Kerry was upset as he snarled, "Oil companies in America are reporting record profits. Record profits."

When did profit become a dirty word?

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2007/06/..._profit_a_dirty_word

There are two kind of profit, "reasonable," and "obscene." Obscene profits are in a word, OBSCENE. Monopoly leads to obscene profits. Profit is not a dirty word. Collusion and Monopoly are.

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There are two kind of profit, "reasonable," and "obscene." Obscene profits are in a word, OBSCENE. Monopoly leads to obscene profits. Profit is not a dirty word. Collusion and Monopoly are.

Who decides what's reasonable and what's obscene? If someone owns a business that is not classified as a monopoly, yet makes what you would consider an obscene profit, what are you going to do about it? Make them give some back?

As long as you abide by the laws, there is nothing wrong with making as much profit as possible. Why bother doing anything if you can't make a profit?

All I keep reading are these posts criticizing the American worker and people for being greedy and selfish. You defend corporations that take factories and jobs to 3rd world countries to pay less saying the American worker and unions are too greedy. You blame the people for being selfish and '"wanting too many Things" and the fact that they are in debt is their own fault. The workers should have less. Then you turn around and defend these huge profits these corporations and CEO's make. The American worker is too greedy but CEO's profits and bonuses know no limits.

It's the kind of propaganda that is fed to the American people from their corporate media.

The American worker bust their bottom and produce but they are not receiving fair compensation for their labor. Finding another job is not always an option as the number of good paying jobs leave the country, The new ones being created are in the service sector and pay a lot less. Not many jobs offer benefits any more either.

Blame the poor has been the republican right wing mantra for decades but it's not true. Poor people are poor because they recieve low wages. You can't live or raise a family on minimum wage or any where near it. If workers wages rose in accordance with CEO pay minimium wage would be anywhere from at least $12 to $15 dollars phr up to $22 dollars phr. And that's just minimum wage.

The American worker works hard and deserve "things." The reason they can't afford them is because they are not being paid fair wages. Their share of the pie.

Turn off your corporate media.

pogo I do understand what you are saying. I also understand that tradesman jobs and laborers wagers have not risen to keep up with the economy.
And no it is not feasible for EVERYONE to be educated and have better paying jobs before i hear that argument from nash. That sounds good in theory,but in reality it only opens the doors to having more and more illegals come here to take those jobs because very little pay is a heck of alot more than they make in their own country.
And you are right those good paying jobs are going overseas,so the CEOs CAN get that cheap labor,so they CAN have those obscene profits.

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Originally posted by NashBama:

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where i am coming from is simple. Wealthy ,by the majority beat their taxes as much as possible,to INCLUDE illegal activities covered up and buried by their high dollar attorneys and accountants. Everyday Joes do just as stated, they hire an accountant,tax attorney.
I personally know one wealthy couple ,he and his wife(they are also business partners) beat the tax game and have for years. they "own" several non-existant business holdings,its a big joke to them.

If they get caught, they'll be held accountable. There is such thing as someone who is wealthy and honest. Besides, middle class people try to cheat the system as well.

What did the IRS say when you informed them about these people you know?

The RICH get caught??? Oh, there may be a "PRODUCTION"... but it should be in the movies, because even if they DO get caught, they will not be held accountable... they will just tell the public they are...

Rich people can do anything they want!!!!

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Originally posted by Pogo142:
All I keep reading are these posts criticizing the American worker and people for being greedy and selfish. You defend corporations that take factories and jobs to 3rd world countries to pay less saying the American worker and unions are too greedy. You blame the people for being selfish and '"wanting too many Things" and the fact that they are in debt is their own fault. The workers should have less. Then you turn around and defend these huge profits these corporations and CEO's make. The American worker is too greedy but CEO's profits and bonuses know no limits.

It's the kind of propaganda that is fed to the American people from their corporate media.

The American worker bust their bottom and produce but they are not receiving fair compensation for their labor. Finding another job is not always an option as the number of good paying jobs leave the country, The new ones being created are in the service sector and pay a lot less. Not many jobs offer benefits any more either.

Blame the poor has been the republican right wing mantra for decades but it's not true. Poor people are poor because they recieve low wages. You can't live or raise a family on minimum wage or any where near it. If workers wages rose in accordance with CEO pay minimium wage would be anywhere from at least $12 to $15 dollars phr up to $22 dollars phr. And that's just minimum wage.

The American worker works hard and deserve "things." The reason they can't afford them is because they are not being paid fair wages. Their share of the pie.

Turn off your corporate media.

I tell ya Pogo... I don't know you, but you ARE the smartest man on the board!!!! You have INSIGHT that others just ignore... Thank you!!!

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Originally posted by NashBama:

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There are two kind of profit, "reasonable," and "obscene." Obscene profits are in a word, OBSCENE. Monopoly leads to obscene profits. Profit is not a dirty word. Collusion and Monopoly are.

Who decides what's reasonable and what's obscene? If someone owns a business that is not classified as a monopoly, yet makes what you would consider an obscene profit, what are you going to do about it? Make them give some back?

As long as you abide by the laws, there is nothing wrong with making as much profit as possible. Why bother doing anything if you can't make a profit?

C'mon Nash... surely YOU of all people KNOW the answer to this one!!!

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Originally posted by that smart chick:
Unless you fill out Form 3949-A and submit it to the IRS, they can't really do anything. That document helps to make sure that some vindictive ex-wife isn't just trying to mess with their ex-husband.

If you suspect that their tax CPAs, Attorneys or Enrolled Agents are committing fraud you can email a referal form to OPR@IRS.GOV. Investigations take weeks, sometimes months or even years to complete. If you follow the procedures, these people should be suffering the consequences in due time.

Hmmmm... just wondering if that applies to vindictive ex husbands who isn't just out to mess with wife.... ????

You make it sound like ALL the rich are men...

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Originally posted by that smart chick:
First of all, the wealthy pay a LOT in taxes. And, if it weren't for the big wealthy corporations, many people wouldn't have jobs! Do some research on the Laffer curve and you'll find that over-taxing the rich is bad for everyone.

Who are you (or anyone else) to say that because I make more money, I should have to redistribute my wealth to those who can't, won't or don't make as much as I do? If that were the case, then I'm taking my money to the Bahamas to spend and enjoy.

The social programs that they have been cutting has been forcing people to take care of themselves. If they are thrown into poverty because they are too proud to work at McDonald's with their 8th grade educations, then that is too bad.

Corporate globalization is a problem. In this country that problem is spearheaded by Wal-Mart. Take up the trade deficit issue with the Waltons.

If you want everyone to pay their FAIR share of taxes, then implement the Fair Tax. WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG has lots of information.

Punish the rich? For being rich? Is that fair?

Oh yeah, we do have the FAIR TAX law... it is used about as much as the Rules of War have been...

I just LOVE greedy people... people who will sell their own soul for a dollar....

What I love even MORE is those who follow them around like a puppy dog singing their praises...

*BARF*

you said it all Kindred!

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Originally posted by Pogo142:
All I keep reading are these posts criticizing the American worker and people for being greedy and selfish. You defend corporations that take factories and jobs to 3rd world countries to pay less saying the American worker and unions are too greedy. You blame the people for being selfish and '"wanting too many Things" and the fact that they are in debt is their own fault. The workers should have less. Then you turn around and defend these huge profits these corporations and CEO's make. The American worker is too greedy but CEO's profits and bonuses know no limits.

It's the kind of propaganda that is fed to the American people from their corporate media.

The American worker bust their bottom and produce but they are not receiving fair compensation for their labor. Finding another job is not always an option as the number of good paying jobs leave the country, The new ones being created are in the service sector and pay a lot less. Not many jobs offer benefits any more either.

Blame the poor has been the republican right wing mantra for decades but it's not true. Poor people are poor because they recieve low wages. You can't live or raise a family on minimum wage or any where near it. If workers wages rose in accordance with CEO pay minimium wage would be anywhere from at least $12 to $15 dollars phr up to $22 dollars phr. And that's just minimum wage.

The American worker works hard and deserve "things." The reason they can't afford them is because they are not being paid fair wages. Their share of the pie.

Turn off your corporate media.

Any American who is in debt, got there by their own doing, SO IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT! No one puts anyone else in debt. Live within your means and you will not have trouble making ends meet. No one is saying that the average American worker is greedy; quit trying to speak for the working middle class. They are not who we are talking about. You keep comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the poor, entitlement crowd that is a drain on the system. You brought up the middle class, and we all said they would have it fine if the government would quit taxing them so much to give it to the poor. If the middle class lives reasonably, they have no trouble making it.

The only reason the middle class doesn't have more is because the entitlement crowd keeps wanting to throw more free money at every problem and give it to those who don't deserve it. I have covered the real fact here, and you keep ignoring it. The rich, who you want to contribute more to the system, DO NOT BENEFIT FROM SAID SYSTEM AS MUCH AS THOSE WHO CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO IT. What you advocate is not only unfair, it is re-distribution of wealth and nothing more.

If you think the system needs more money, quit wasting what money it already has by giving it to those who do not contribute to it or deserve it. Most of the poor that I am talking about are not even working. And if they are, they can't live on what they make because they think they should have everything the middle class and wealthy do. If you didn't stay in school, get a good job, and make $8 or $9 dollars an hour, quit complaining; you did it to yourself. This idea that they have a right to things, causes them to do financially foolish things, like run up credit card debt, payday loans, title loans, etc., etc. I do not like any of these "scams" which are all designed to rip off the poor. There is a reason however that these things are designed for that purpose. They count on the inability of people to control their urges, live for the moment, and be stupid. They take advantage of those who can least afford it, and they target those people for good reason. They are easy targets because of their own actions. If they would straighten up, have self control, and realize they don't NEED (need not want) all the nice things some others may have, they would not be victimized by these scams. But, as it currently stands, the more money you throw at this group, the more they are going to blow and have nothing to show for. These people I am referring to are the problem with "the system," and are NOT the American worker.

The American worker does work hard. They do deserve things. They deserve what they can afford, and they can afford many things if they are financially smart, have self control, and take personal responsibility for their own lives.

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Originally posted by smurph:


you said it all Kindred!

Thanks smurph... just getting tired of all the azz kissing going on... it is getting plumb disgusting!!! LOL

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Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

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Originally posted by smurph:


you said it all Kindred!

Thanks smurph... just getting tired of all the azz kissing going on... it is getting plumb disgusting!!! LOL

Now, Kindred. I'm not azz kissing here. And I'm certainly not defending those who got rich by abusing others. All I'm saying is that since Pogo wants more money for "the system" and he wants it to come from the wealthy, we should fix the abuse of "the system" and it would not only need less money, we could then cut taxes on the middle class working people so they would have more. There would be no need to tax anyone, rich or poor, because the system wouldn't need all that money if we quit giving it to people who haven't worked for it or contributed to it.

Again I'm not taking up for the rich, I'm just trying to show that giving money to people who didn't earn it, is wrong and ineffective. If we quit entitling people to things, the middle class would not have as much burden, and it would be accomplished without unfairly overtaxing the wealthy.

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Originally posted by aubfire1:

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Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

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Originally posted by smurph:


you said it all Kindred!

Thanks smurph... just getting tired of all the azz kissing going on... it is getting plumb disgusting!!! LOL

Now, Kindred. I'm not azz kissing here. And I'm certainly not defending those who got rich by abusing others. All I'm saying is that since Pogo wants more money for "the system" and he wants it to come from the wealthy, we should fix the abuse of "the system" and it would not only need less money, we could then cut taxes on the middle class working people so they would have more. There would be no need to tax anyone, rich or poor, because the system wouldn't need all that money if we quit giving it to people who haven't worked for it or contributed to it.

Again I'm not taking up for the rich, I'm just trying to show that giving money to people who didn't earn it, is wrong and ineffective. If we quit entitling people to things, the middle class would not have as much burden, and it would be accomplished without unfairly overtaxing the wealthy.

I didn't see any of YOU GUYS complaining when the RICH was exploiting all of us for their personal gain... and that has happened so much in the last few years it is unreal, and to take up for them is like saying that you will keep on GIVING to them so they can be richer...

C'mon, they have stomped the poor, robbed the middle class, and make MORE in a year than they or their family can EVER spend... now THAT, my friend, is coming from SOMEWHERE... and it ain't them!!!

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C'mon Nash... surely YOU of all people KNOW the answer to this one!!!

No, answer it for me.

I do complain when things such as Enron happen and people are taken advantage of, exploited, and basically robbed. You're right it has been happening alot in recent years. It seems corruption has become the name of the game, and it is sickening.

That said, I still support the right of HONEST people to earn and save whatever wealth they can compile with no limits. We get into dangerous ground when we start letting people determine what is "too much." I'm not so much supporting the rich as I am the right they have to become and remain rich. I for one, would not like to know that I do not EVER have the opportunity to get rich myself, and I certainly don't want to know that if I work hard and achieve it, that I will be penalized financially for doing so.

And I REALLY don't like seeing the other end of the spectrum, where people are given things they have not earned at the expense of those who may have earned. That really gripes me.