That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
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quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
A very good question and one of those type of questions that will make you think. Here's the way I feel about it. First of all, when people talk about religion, the first thing they think about is God, Church, etc.. But when somebody brings up religion to me, I look at it as politics. We, the people, are the church. Christ established his church, not churches, as there is only suppose to be one church. Man takes scriptures and makes them fit to his own personal needs. Look around at how many churches have split because of different beliefs. If we all make it to Heaven, we will all be as one. But according to the Bible, hell is going to be full. There will be less people in Heaven, only a few shall enter the gates of Heaven. I believe in separation of church and I believe that religion spreads hate, not christianity, but religion. The true christians will make it to Heaven. The true christians stay out of the politics. The war's that we are having in the Middle East are all about religion and I'm sure there are christian people over there, along with their extremists. That's why the far right scares me because if you don't believe as they do, they are going to come down on you that you are unpatriotic, unAmerican, and so forth. And you've got a few right here on this board that will call you those names if you don't agree with them. There's a lot of people in the south that think rational. They just don't expose their views because they fear being attacked by the far right. My prayer is that America will unite and God have mercy on us all.
where do you think the lessons of right and wrong come from? where do you think many of the laws we have come from(i.e. murder, theft, child abuse) where does the moral conduct of man come from? Do you think we could have done it all on our own? I would hate to live in a society without some sort of religious interaction, but sadly, we keep heading in that direction.
Duh?? the freedom of religion was one of the main reasons people came to the New World. One has the freedom to worship as they please, or not at all if that is their desire.
Icould make this a long post but I think the question is answered.
Icould make this a long post but I think the question is answered.
quote:Originally posted by themax:
Duh?? the freedom of religion was one of the main reasons people came to the New World. One has the freedom to worship as they please, or not at all if that is their desire.
Icould make this a long post but I think the question is answered.
I don't think any of us has answer the man's question, now that I go back and read all that is posted.
We have it because it's our right to have it. Should we ban it?
Don't buy into religion if you don't want. However who are you to make other people's free choices?
The Tenents for life are available from many sources. Religion, as it is practiced here, is nothing more than a group, or gathering, of like minded people.
Some profess the practice of Christianity, one of whose tenents is brotherhood in Christ. Why are there so many churches of different names practising that belief? Because they can't get along with eachother is why.
There are seven days in a week. If all behaved as they do on their Sabbath wouldn't it be nice.
I will not use the hypocrite arguement, but what else can these Religious practioners be called. Show me how you treat someone not of your faith, race or social circle and we'll see how religious you are.
Religion---The practice of a particular Doctrine or Mores. Some need a lot more practice than others.
Some profess the practice of Christianity, one of whose tenents is brotherhood in Christ. Why are there so many churches of different names practising that belief? Because they can't get along with eachother is why.
There are seven days in a week. If all behaved as they do on their Sabbath wouldn't it be nice.
I will not use the hypocrite arguement, but what else can these Religious practioners be called. Show me how you treat someone not of your faith, race or social circle and we'll see how religious you are.
Religion---The practice of a particular Doctrine or Mores. Some need a lot more practice than others.
quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
For those of us who WANT it, and it is our Constitutional Right to have it. Just like several have said above... and also themax has a GREAT point.
quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
I'm going to try to answer your question, rather than post about my right to worship as I see fit.
The best definition of religion I have found is:
A system of beliefs and practices concerned with sacred things and or symbols uniting individuals into a single moral community.....
From: Elmer Social Science Dictionary
Ok, humans feel a deep set need to belong to like groups...people that think the same and have the same values and morals. Regardless of the safety and order that police, legislated laws, jails and courts bring, they feel the need to belong. Also, humans have evolved to have the concept of an "afterlife", or a continuation of the present existance they enjoy, or perhaps a better existance. With this, they express the desire to continue being a viable life force, even if changed to some form that they don't comprehend fully.
Religion provides assurances that these hopes and wishes can come true, if the rules of the particular religion are followed. Threat of vile punishment for non-compliance (sometimes even to those who unknowingly violate the rules) are also the norm. What good would heaven be if there were no hell as a counter measure?
So, in answer to your question....Religion provides something that the legal system cannot...it provides a social attachment to like minded persons, and hope of an afterlife. The legal system only provides for order and safety in this life, and no social interactment at all.
"Why is religion necessary?"
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It isn't. Mysticism is almost as old as man himself. Religion at best is man's attempt to control other men through a belief system that has no credible evidence. That is why they call it faith.
Our founding fathers came to this country fleeing religious persecution. They sought a system where individual rights were paramount and if you chose to worship a god or gods, that was your individual choice. Most native American Indians were OK with it. But eventually, greed hiding behind the cloak of forced Christianity gave cover for us to label the real Americans as barbaric savages. So we leveraged that into a mass genocide. Killing thousands upon thousands and rounding up the survivors up and put them into reservations. Usually some very undesirable piece of real estate.
But because of our new world religion we had the Christian god on our side didn't we???
=======================================
It isn't. Mysticism is almost as old as man himself. Religion at best is man's attempt to control other men through a belief system that has no credible evidence. That is why they call it faith.
Our founding fathers came to this country fleeing religious persecution. They sought a system where individual rights were paramount and if you chose to worship a god or gods, that was your individual choice. Most native American Indians were OK with it. But eventually, greed hiding behind the cloak of forced Christianity gave cover for us to label the real Americans as barbaric savages. So we leveraged that into a mass genocide. Killing thousands upon thousands and rounding up the survivors up and put them into reservations. Usually some very undesirable piece of real estate.
But because of our new world religion we had the Christian god on our side didn't we???
quote:It isn't. Mysticism is almost as old as man himself. Religion at best is man's attempt to control other men through a belief system that has no credible evidence. That is why they call it faith.
Religion itself is not evil nor is it an attempt to control other people. It's the few people who control a particular religion and abuse their power that are evil. What about Mother Teresa or groups like the Salvation Army? Without religion, we wouldn't have them. Would we be better off? How many charity organizations are faith based? When Katrina hit, a lot of churches from the Mid TN area sent groups down to the Gulf Coast to help. Religious groups are always sending groups to third world countries or disaster areas to lend a hand or they have drives to send food and supplies. Religion is the moral fabric of society and without it we would fall apart. Yes, there have been some groups that were led by evil people, but don't judge religion as a whole by the wrongdoings of a few.
quote:Originally posted by NashBama:quote:It isn't. Mysticism is almost as old as man himself. Religion at best is man's attempt to control other men through a belief system that has no credible evidence. That is why they call it faith.
Religion itself is not evil nor is it an attempt to control other people. It's the few people who control a particular religion and abuse their power that are evil. What about Mother Teresa or groups like the Salvation Army? Without religion, we wouldn't have them. Would we be better off? How many charity organizations are faith based? When Katrina hit, a lot of churches from the Mid TN area sent groups down to the Gulf Coast to help. Religious groups are always sending groups to third world countries or disaster areas to lend a hand or they have drives to send food and supplies. Religion is the moral fabric of society and without it we would fall apart. Yes, there have been some groups that were led by evil people, but don't judge religion as a whole by the wrongdoings of a few.
That is a good point, and I'll point out that on occasion that religious control is focused on doing good, or helping others. Not nearly enough IMHO.
Just remember that religion is inherently human and subject to man's faults and to imply that religion and morality are mutually exclusive would be misleading. (A lot of animals and isolated humans naturally recoil at bad behavior.) Look at today's religious stars. For example: WWJD? We think it is perfectly acceptable for religious leaders to live extravagantly, far above the average lifestyle. Would Jesus do that? Or would he live on an average salary, taking the excess and perhaps feeding the one of the thousands who starve to death every single day? It would be as simple as a phone call and OKing the funding electronically. Should houses of worship be built in a lavish manner? These are clearly people preaching one thing and doing another.
But do any followers cry out? Most are religious to a degree....a comfortable one at that.
*edit* We'll have to agree to disagree on the control issue.
Regards, miamizsun
Why Is Religion Necessary?
Religion came about as the evolutionary process began to give man the ability to think. Man began to contemplate death. Archeological digs have found that man used to just be left the way he was when he died. There were no graves or ceremonies, it was just though an animal hide died and were just left lying where it fell.
Once man began to think and reason he began to contemplate death. It is hard for people to face the hard cold facts or reality. Man began to invent a higher power or a religion in order to cope with life and death mentally. As time went on people started to add things like laws and how to treat others. There had to be some way to make people respect the rights of others.
Some people choose religion to cope,others choose drugs. They are both a way to escape reality.
Religion came about as the evolutionary process began to give man the ability to think. Man began to contemplate death. Archeological digs have found that man used to just be left the way he was when he died. There were no graves or ceremonies, it was just though an animal hide died and were just left lying where it fell.
Once man began to think and reason he began to contemplate death. It is hard for people to face the hard cold facts or reality. Man began to invent a higher power or a religion in order to cope with life and death mentally. As time went on people started to add things like laws and how to treat others. There had to be some way to make people respect the rights of others.
Some people choose religion to cope,others choose drugs. They are both a way to escape reality.
I am Christian, which those who know me on the boards, already know that. But I do not belong to "Organized" Religion for personal reasons. Some of the Churches I have attended make a mockery of the belief in God, in my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by Quarrles:
The Tenents for life are available from many sources. Religion, as it is practiced here, is nothing more than a group, or gathering, of like minded people.
Some profess the practice of Christianity, one of whose tenents is brotherhood in Christ. Why are there so many churches of different names practising that belief? Because they can't get along with eachother is why.
There are seven days in a week. If all behaved as they do on their Sabbath wouldn't it be nice.
I will not use the hypocrite arguement, but what else can these Religious practioners be called. Show me how you treat someone not of your faith, race or social circle and we'll see how religious you are.
Religion---The practice of a particular Doctrine or Mores. Some need a lot more practice than others.
Amen Brother!
Thanks PBA. I am going to be out for a few days, necessary surgery,not having my head removed from anywhere.
Wish you well and continue the good fight while I'm away.
I admire your gifts of word and sense. Hold the fort.
To the rest...adieu, adieu mes amis.
Wish you well and continue the good fight while I'm away.I admire your gifts of word and sense. Hold the fort.
To the rest...adieu, adieu mes amis.
quote:Look at today's religious stars. For example: WWJD? We think it is perfectly acceptable for religious leaders to live extravagantly, far above the average lifestyle. Would Jesus do that? Or would he live on an average salary, taking the excess and perhaps feeding the one of the thousands who starve to death every single day? It would be as simple as a phone call and OKing the funding electronically. Should houses of worship be built in a lavish manner? These are clearly people preaching one thing and doing another.
But do any followers cry out? Most are religious to a degree....a comfortable one at that.
The majority of church leaders & preachers are not rich and living extravagant lifestyles. The pastor who married my wife and I is a family friend. He has a small congregation and lives an average, middle class life. The congregation is not under his control. They come for spiritual guidance and renewal and he helps them with that. That's what religion is. The Jim Bakers and similar TV preachers are not an example of Christianity. They are the money changers in the temple, trying to get rich and exerting control over those who are wiling to put aside their free thought and be controlled. The churches that spew hatred and condemn others are not following Christian values. Those types of organizations are not necessary. The churches that give back to the community and provide spiritual, emotional, and physical support not only to the parishioners, but the community as a whole are essential to prosper.
quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
mackisfor420,
I agree with PBA in large measure, but come at the question from a different direction.
To explain why religion is necessary, you have to decide who it is necessary to.
In Iran, to hold political office you are required to be a Muslim. To hold a position of power in any church you have to profess the beliefs of that church.
In Iraq that was not the case, you could hold office if you were a Christian, Atheist, Jew, Muslim or Buddhist. BUT, you could not hold office if you were not a Ba ath party member.
In the United States the Constitution specifically prohibits any religious test for elected politicians. It does not mandate membership in any club, political party, organization or even military service.
That means religion is not necessary for political power. That rule does not apply universally to economic issues.
Political power is dependent on a base of constituents. One way to develop a base is to be religios, go to Church Meetings, and demonstrate a loyalty to the Church Group. Religion is not necessary, but beneficial. Joining the Lions Club and the Country Club and a Church expands your potential for influence. Joining a political party does too. I would vote for a Congreationalist before I would vote for a Baptist.
It is an absolute necessity to be a Christian to recieve the eternal blessing of Christ. Christianity is a necessity for reaching the paradise of Christianity. There is another paradise for Buddhists, and the route to that paradise is different. Same for Muslims and Jews.
Now it gets to personal belief. Religion is necessary to describe and promise eternal paradise. Rejecting belief in eternal life destroys the need for religion. Accepting the concept of an eternal reward in heaven for loyal service to some group on earth makes religion valuable to those who would exploit your labor for their benifit. It is therfore necessary for Religion to Promise Eternal Bliss to those who provide temporal bliss to the powerful.
So, Religion is necessary to sustain a slave culture. Religion is necessary to sustain the culture you and I live in.
In order to convince a person to die for god, you must first convince that person that god, not you, will reward him for doing your will, and that your will is god's will.
Religion is necessary for war. Unless you can obtain loyalty unto death for some other intangible reality, for examble Queen and Country, OR the victims of the World Trade Center Attack, it is necessary to fall back on religion. THEREFORE, RELIGION IS NECESSARY.
quote:So why is it needed in our modern society?
It is no longer neede...man made, organised religion can be blamed for most of the wars going on right now.
quote:Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:quote:So why is it needed in our modern society?
It is no longer neede...man made, organised religion can be blamed for most of the wars going on right now.
Mott,
Getting rid of religion will not get rid of war. Getting rid of War will not get rid of religion.
If Religion could moderate the human tendency to greed and hunger for power, It would be worth having. Despite centuries of preaching peace and brotherhood in the pulpits of the world, war making is still done under the guise of protecting and preserving the ALL POWERFUL GOD of nations. Logic dictates that an All Powerful God needs no defense, protection, or spreading of the word.
quote:Originally posted by PBA:quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
A very good question and one of those type of questions that will make you think. Here's the way I feel about it. First of all, when people talk about religion, the first thing they think about is God, Church, etc.. But when somebody brings up religion to me, I look at it as politics. We, the people, are the church. Christ established his church, not churches, as there is only suppose to be one church. Man takes scriptures and makes them fit to his own personal needs. Look around at how many churches have split because of different beliefs. If we all make it to Heaven, we will all be as one. But according to the Bible, hell is going to be full. There will be less people in Heaven, only a few shall enter the gates of Heaven. I believe in separation of church and I believe that religion spreads hate, not christianity, but religion. The true christians will make it to Heaven. The true christians stay out of the politics. The war's that we are having in the Middle East are all about religion and I'm sure there are christian people over there, along with their extremists. That's why the far right scares me because if you don't believe as they do, they are going to come down on you that you are unpatriotic, unAmerican, and so forth. And you've got a few right here on this board that will call you those names if you don't agree with them. There's a lot of people in the south that think rational. They just don't expose their views because they fear being attacked by the far right. My prayer is that America will unite and God have mercy on us all.
Did I read the original quote wrong or something? I thought the question was about police,laws,jails,& courts & why is it needed,etc,etc,etc.....PBA,hhow did you come up with that answer????? you need to go to the previous topic to post that.....?????
I dont really understand some's offense to this question. The author of this thread, (at least to my knowledge, though I am new) didn't really say anything offensive.
With that though, I will say to Mack, you'll get several different answers for this. Religion is one of those things, that can mean several different things to several different people.
I am like my mom, I'm Christian in a sense, but I do not belong to an organized church/denomination. I think my reasons are different from her's though, which, I never discuss on discussion boards because it's my own faith, not something I like to debate with others.
I will say I believe in the,"you can believe as freely as you wish, as shall I", thinking mode. One of my closest friends is an Atheist and has a heart of gold.
My answer though, is simply... Hope. Hope that there is more out there, and having faith that there is. It also makes one feel that they can strive to be better.
Without religion, a person can still have all that I just mentioned in my above comment too.
Yea, Hope I didnt confuse you. But that's my small take on it.
~Manda~
With that though, I will say to Mack, you'll get several different answers for this. Religion is one of those things, that can mean several different things to several different people.
I am like my mom, I'm Christian in a sense, but I do not belong to an organized church/denomination. I think my reasons are different from her's though, which, I never discuss on discussion boards because it's my own faith, not something I like to debate with others.
I will say I believe in the,"you can believe as freely as you wish, as shall I", thinking mode. One of my closest friends is an Atheist and has a heart of gold.
My answer though, is simply... Hope. Hope that there is more out there, and having faith that there is. It also makes one feel that they can strive to be better.
Without religion, a person can still have all that I just mentioned in my above comment too.
Yea, Hope I didnt confuse you.
But that's my small take on it. ~Manda~
quote:Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:quote:So why is it needed in our modern society?
It is no longer neede...man made, organised religion can be blamed for most of the wars going on right now.
Yankeewitch, precisely why I keep my Christianity on a personal level.
I don't run around town shouting it out, and I really dont like talking about it on boards, but I DO defend my rights about being a Christian and my passions for God to the nth degree when attacked about it....
Yeah, I really didn't mean anything offensive by asking this question... But I have noticed that a lot of people take offense to talking about religion... I will never understand... It's like the church has a "hush" on discussing the topic. People actually think it's rude to discuss it, when that to me just seems like a way to put a deaf ear on other thoughts. It's like it is wrong to question religion. Wrong? Wrong to question totally unbelieveable cliams that haven't happened before or since. And just shrug it off by saying, "well God works in mysterious ways". I would say so. God did know that we might want just a little proof, right? I mean maybe just a tiny piece. It just doesn't add up to me so that is why I ask what I do... And I have been asking these questions for so long with no answer that really makes any sense whatsoever.... Why is that? No one, and I mean NO ONE can have a half-assed answer to the Adam/Eve vs. Caveman debate.... Why is that? Didn't God realize that He/She/It made3 cavemen?
quote:Yeah, I really didn't mean anything offensive by asking this question... But I have noticed that a lot of people take offense to talking about religion... I will never understand...
No offense meant to anyone, necessarily. I don't think the intellectual level of this board is capable of discussing complex issues. They rely on the "troll" thing to avoid them. My thoughts exactly!
Now I better scram before they come after me...
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quote:Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:quote:Yeah, I really didn't mean anything offensive by asking this question... But I have noticed that a lot of people take offense to talking about religion... I will never understand...
No offense meant to anyone, necessarily. I don't think the intellectual level of this board is capable of discussing complex issues. They rely on the "troll" thing to avoid them. My thoughts exactly!
Now I better scram before they come after me...
Mott, I am not talking to you, but you already edited the comment so I am using your reply to talk to Macksifor four two zero.
Old rule of ettiquete, do not discuss Religion, Sex, or Politics in polite company.
Therfore the internet is not polite company.
The cliche' "If god did not create man, man would have to create god," is totally true. People are an adaptation of a particular species of primate, primates are an adaptation of a particular family of mammals. We are animals, just like all other evolved fauna. Recent discoveries in microbiology have found chemical communication between colonies of bacteria, I wonder if they discuss the exiastance of God.
quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
In the following paragraphs, please do not equate the word "religion" with the word "Christianity." I am not using them synonymously in this reply.
Religion has always remained, even despite corruption, because it helps answer questions. Police, law, jail, court, they all relate to safety while here, but they don't address where a grandmother goes when she dies. Religion, had it simply been a method of crowd control, would have fallen face-first into the pit of rejection long before Jesus due to the very institutions you've listed. A justice system is a far more tangible method of peace than a set of rules, written and unwritten, to which everyone expects the world to adhere i.e. the Qur'an, the Bhagavad Gita, the Torah, the Bible, the Theravada/Mahayana/Tibetan Book of the Dead, Lun Yu, et cetera.
Alone in an empty house after 87 years of life and no surviving relatives: this person could care less whether or not he/she is safe, he/she just wants to know that it's not over; that this life in a forgotten nursing home is not it. Parents laying their four year old daughter's raped and mangled body in the ground after a two month search to find her kidnapper's location need to feel like they'll hold her again, they'll see her run to them. A husband, after 60 years of marriage, holds the hand of his cancer-ridden wife as she struggles like a drowning child to swallow her very last medication-ridden breath. As her lips form her final "I love you," he has to know he will hear her say it again someday, with strength. He also needs to know that the place she's going is perfect so she won't be dragging her suffering into the next life.
Religion is also necessary because the justice system can not provide answers for the original material of the universe. Even when "chalking the whole thing up" to infinity, they all admit that it's hard to grasp. Even the Big Bang would have had to have had something to compact and disperse. Where did that come from? It's a phenomenon of the human mind; we need beginnings.
Religion is necessary because these questions are common to the whole of humanity. Everyone, without exception, eventually asks "why am I here?" or "is this all there is?" and religion helps. It's an issue of hope and psychology as opposed to one of law and sociology. Though rhetoricians and skeptics have discovered lines of argument that lead them down other paths, I have to believe that even they have difficulty living in peace with their decision, especially at their child's funeral
quote:Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:quote:Yeah, I really didn't mean anything offensive by asking this question... But I have noticed that a lot of people take offense to talking about religion... I will never understand...
No offense meant to anyone, necessarily. I don't think the intellectual level of this board is capable of discussing complex issues. They rely on the "troll" thing to avoid them. My thoughts exactly!
Now I better scram before they come after me...
So we're all clear: does your statement apply to you, too?
At least the Trolls hasn't necessarily taken over this post... but you got TROLLS right, they are coming in droves!!!
quote:Originally posted by mackisfor420:
That is really the only question I would like answered..... We have police, laws, jails, and courts....So why is it needed in our modern society?
mackisfor,
It's been 5 days since you asked this provocative question.
Now that I have had some time to put the grey matter to work on it, I have come up with a little parable. Many elements of the environment are beyond our control. We cannot control rain even today, but we can explain how it comes to be. With technology you can track and predict the course of rainstorms. It is no longe a mystery how the rain comes to exist.
Humans manipulate the environment, but, we still don't control it. This is what generated belief in gods. Thor, or some other supernatural entity controlled the rain. Since agriculture depends on rain, it seemed like a good idea to ask Thor to bring some, or if there were floods, to stop bringing so much. Since the weather changes, in most places day by day, the prayers "worked." You want rain on a sunny day, you ask Thor for a little, the next day it rains, there must be a Thor.
(proof of God)
The first fella, or woman who came up with this idea told the rest of the tribe. He was powerful enough to make the rain come down. Then, the poor guy did not get what he asked for. This was a problem so he or she, got most of the folk into a clearing to make a "joyful noise unto the lord." THIS TIME IT RAINED. Church is born.
When that did not always work, it was because someone was not helping pray, or that group over the hill was praying to keep the rain away from our fields. Religious differences were born. So the Thorists decided that the anti-Thorists had to either join up or git. Religious war is born.
After a while, someone wanted to stop nomads from pillaging his little farm at the edge of the community. Alone, he could not prevent the 20 or 30 marauders from taking all his produce. Praying for protection from enemies worked, as long as the mauraders were busy with the anti-Thorists. But, just like with the rain, one day the barbarians showed up at the gate. But if he could get the rest of the plainsmen to help, he could either pray the barbarians away, or hunt then down and kill them. He also had the problem of feeding his family after the barbarians had looted all his crops.
He had the bright Idea of telling the neighbors that Thor would not give them rain if they did not help him. It was a short step from that to get them to go out, in the name of Thor, and whip some barbarians before they pilliaged him.
So, is religion necessary. SURE IS IF YOU WANT TO GET UP AN ARMY TO GO KILL THE BARBARIANS. OR You can do the same thing if you are fighting to take care of your protector.
How Hitler Became a Dictator
by Jacob G. Hornberger,
Whenever U.S. officials wish to demonize someone, they inevitably compare him to Adolf Hitler. The message immediately resonates with people because everyone knows that Hitler was a brutal dictator.
But how many people know how Hitler actually became a dictator? My bet is, very few. I’d also bet that more than a few people would be surprised at how he pulled it off, especially given that after World War I Germany had become a democratic republic.
The story of how Hitler became a dictator is set forth in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer, on which this article is based.
In the presidential election held on March 13, 1932, there were four candidates: the incumbent, Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg, Hitler, and two minor candidates, Ernst Thaelmann and Theodore Duesterberg. The results were: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp
by Jacob G. Hornberger,
Whenever U.S. officials wish to demonize someone, they inevitably compare him to Adolf Hitler. The message immediately resonates with people because everyone knows that Hitler was a brutal dictator.
But how many people know how Hitler actually became a dictator? My bet is, very few. I’d also bet that more than a few people would be surprised at how he pulled it off, especially given that after World War I Germany had become a democratic republic.
The story of how Hitler became a dictator is set forth in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer, on which this article is based.
In the presidential election held on March 13, 1932, there were four candidates: the incumbent, Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg, Hitler, and two minor candidates, Ernst Thaelmann and Theodore Duesterberg. The results were: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp
Christians love torture
Some will find these statistics surprising:
Over half of US Christians approve of torturing suspected terrorists, as opposed to less than half of secularists.
I, personally, do not. Consider the violent history of christianity. From the crusades, to the inquisition, to the genocide of native americans, Christianity is a religion that has been steeped with violence. Its very symbol, the crucifix, is a shocking display of brutality, although made much less so through overexposure.
It seems to me that the majority of Christians in this country take the wrong message from that image of Christ on the cross. Judging from the morality imposed on all americans by the FCC, a morality undeniably designed by Christians to appease the Christian public, Christians in this country have taken the view of the Romans, and brandish the cross not as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice but rather as warning, or perhaps a celebration. Today, at 12 pm at home, I watched a girl cut Freddy Krueger's head off with a machete on basic cable. This was a good representative of the graphic violence on display every day on both cable and network television. I won't deny that I was entertained, but I find it interesting that the (Christian) American public has no problem with this but yet goes berserk when Janet Jackson's breast is bared during the super bowl. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Christ ever had any problems with boobies, but disproved of violence. It's clear that Americans practice a strange sort of Christianity.
Of course, when analyzing that Pew poll, I agree with Andrew Sullivan when he says it is another part of the Bush legacy. It's true that Christians and secular Americans generally fall on opposite sides of the political chasm caused by Bush and his cronies. Yes, American Christians are violent, but did they agree that torture is an acceptable practice before Bush proclaimed it so (if not in words, than by action)? I've often heard that many Christians (though doubtfully hopefully not the majority) think of Bush almost as an emissary from God, as a man who communicates directly with Christ. Do they believe torture is morally justified simply because he does? If so, I shudder to think of what else Bush could accomplish. What if he said that all muslims are agents of Satan? All secularists? Would the american faithful march in lockstep, or would they finally have a glimmer of doubt?
http://dakane.blogspot.com/2006/09/christians-love-torture.html
Some will find these statistics surprising:
Over half of US Christians approve of torturing suspected terrorists, as opposed to less than half of secularists.
I, personally, do not. Consider the violent history of christianity. From the crusades, to the inquisition, to the genocide of native americans, Christianity is a religion that has been steeped with violence. Its very symbol, the crucifix, is a shocking display of brutality, although made much less so through overexposure.
It seems to me that the majority of Christians in this country take the wrong message from that image of Christ on the cross. Judging from the morality imposed on all americans by the FCC, a morality undeniably designed by Christians to appease the Christian public, Christians in this country have taken the view of the Romans, and brandish the cross not as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice but rather as warning, or perhaps a celebration. Today, at 12 pm at home, I watched a girl cut Freddy Krueger's head off with a machete on basic cable. This was a good representative of the graphic violence on display every day on both cable and network television. I won't deny that I was entertained, but I find it interesting that the (Christian) American public has no problem with this but yet goes berserk when Janet Jackson's breast is bared during the super bowl. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Christ ever had any problems with boobies, but disproved of violence. It's clear that Americans practice a strange sort of Christianity.
Of course, when analyzing that Pew poll, I agree with Andrew Sullivan when he says it is another part of the Bush legacy. It's true that Christians and secular Americans generally fall on opposite sides of the political chasm caused by Bush and his cronies. Yes, American Christians are violent, but did they agree that torture is an acceptable practice before Bush proclaimed it so (if not in words, than by action)? I've often heard that many Christians (though doubtfully hopefully not the majority) think of Bush almost as an emissary from God, as a man who communicates directly with Christ. Do they believe torture is morally justified simply because he does? If so, I shudder to think of what else Bush could accomplish. What if he said that all muslims are agents of Satan? All secularists? Would the american faithful march in lockstep, or would they finally have a glimmer of doubt?
http://dakane.blogspot.com/2006/09/christians-love-torture.html
quote:Originally posted by pba:
Christians love torture
Some will find these statistics surprising:
Over half of US Christians approve of torturing suspected terrorists, as opposed to less than half of secularists.
I, personally, do not. Consider the violent history of christianity. From the crusades, to the inquisition, to the genocide of native americans, Christianity is a religion that has been steeped with violence. Its very symbol, the crucifix, is a shocking display of brutality, although made much less so through overexposure.
It seems to me that the majority of Christians in this country take the wrong message from that image of Christ on the cross. Judging from the morality imposed on all americans by the FCC, a morality undeniably designed by Christians to appease the Christian public, Christians in this country have taken the view of the Romans, and brandish the cross not as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice but rather as warning, or perhaps a celebration. Today, at 12 pm at home, I watched a girl cut Freddy Krueger's head off with a machete on basic cable. This was a good representative of the graphic violence on display every day on both cable and network television. I won't deny that I was entertained, but I find it interesting that the (Christian) American public has no problem with this but yet goes berserk when Janet Jackson's breast is bared during the super bowl. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Christ ever had any problems with boobies, but disproved of violence. It's clear that Americans practice a strange sort of Christianity.
Of course, when analyzing that Pew poll, I agree with Andrew Sullivan when he says it is another part of the Bush legacy. It's true that Christians and secular Americans generally fall on opposite sides of the political chasm caused by Bush and his cronies. Yes, American Christians are violent, but did they agree that torture is an acceptable practice before Bush proclaimed it so (if not in words, than by action)? I've often heard that many Christians (though doubtfully hopefully not the majority) think of Bush almost as an emissary from God, as a man who communicates directly with Christ. Do they believe torture is morally justified simply because he does? If so, I shudder to think of what else Bush could accomplish. What if he said that all muslims are agents of Satan? All secularists? Would the american faithful march in lockstep, or would they finally have a glimmer of doubt?
http://dakane.blogspot.com/2006/09/christians-love-torture.html
pba, If you are saying Religion is necessary so that Bush can Justify torture, I am inclined to agree. Same with your speculations about moving a mass of people to genocide. BUT, if you are saying that Religion, which I personally think is unecessary EXCDPT FOR those reasons. I find myself saying JUDGEMENT is necessary and the message of Religion is invariable...do not torture kill, rape, pillage or alter the message of the messengers who brought the message.
quote:Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
I am Christian, which those who know me on the boards, already know that. But I do not belong to "Organized" Religion for personal reasons. Some of the Churches I have attended make a mockery of the belief in God, in my opinion.
Later on around 1980 I was watching a TV preacher and he was saying that "God demanded a blood sacrifice of his only son to atone for the our sins and open the gates of Heaven" and I thought, this is a sick religion. I came to see organized religion as Paganism. Blood sacrifices, suffering, rituals and all. I always remembered that Jesus said something to the effect of , " Not to go to church and be showy and all but go home and pray in secret. Don't let your right hand know what your left hand was doing.