have little regard for hard-core, inflexible doctrinaire dictates of their hierarchy:
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2...o-save-mothers-life/
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quote:Reply
quote:Allowing the woman to live -- if she is a believer will allow her to glorify God through her redeemed life. And, if she is not yet a believe; there is time for her to make a decision to follow Jesus Christ.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Allowing the woman to live -- if she is a believer will allow her to glorify God through her redeemed life. And, if she is not yet a believe; there is time for her to make a decision to follow Jesus Christ.
Sorry, but I don't think this has anything to do with it.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
I'm not disagreeing with you as "an enemy". You are way too defensive! I am simply saying that the issue is not whether the woman should live to be a Christian, or what she does with her life. That is secondary. The root of the matter is someone had to decide if she should live, and if her child should be sacrificed in order to make that happen. That's all..
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Allowing the woman to live -- if she is a believer will allow her to glorify God through her redeemed life. And, if she is not yet a believe; there is time for her to make a decision to follow Jesus Christ.
Sorry, but I don't think this has anything to do with it.
quote:God hates abortion. Just as He hates war -- but, at times, uses it to save His people
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:God hates abortion. Just as He hates war -- but, at times, uses it to save His people
No, Bill. Abortion is a man made evil. Not used by God. Ever....
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
No, I don't really find it ironic. She made a decision that is in direct opposition to Catholic Doctrine. So why would I support that? I maintain, she should have transferred this woman's care elsewhere.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
Elvis, you're right. what a horrible dilemma. I'm not judging her- I am just stating that her actions are contrary to doctrine. So I guess defending the decision that she be excommunicated. That being said, surely we don't know the whole story, and I hope all involved are at peace with the outcome. Sad situation all around.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
......Yes, there will be times when a decision must be made between two lives -- and I believe that she was right to save the mother's life.
I have always said that I can support abortion in such cases. While I might sit on the fence when it comes to incest or rape....
Bill
quote:Originally posted by flotown79:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
However, I believe this nun was correct in her decision. Yes, there will be times when a decision must be made between two lives -- and I believe that she was right to save the mother's life.
I have always said that I can support abortion in such cases. While I might sit on the fence when it comes to incest or rape -- I will always lean toward saving the mother's life in such instances where it is shown that her death resulting from an attempt to carry the child to term is virtually a certainty. Bill
This statement you made is disturbing. So if you had a daughter and she was raped by a family member you would consider encouraging her to keep the child? If you not saying this can you please explain?
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by flotown79:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
However, I believe this nun was correct in her decision. Yes, there will be times when a decision must be made between two lives -- and I believe that she was right to save the mother's life.
I have always said that I can support abortion in such cases. While I might sit on the fence when it comes to incest or rape -- I will always lean toward saving the mother's life in such instances where it is shown that her death resulting from an attempt to carry the child to term is virtually a certainty. Bill
This statement you made is disturbing. So if you had a daughter and she was raped by a family member you would consider encouraging her to keep the child? If you not saying this can you please explain?
Hi Flo,
Yes, if the my daughter's life is not at risk -- physically or mentally -- I would most likely encourage her to have the child. And, we would discuss whether she wanted to keep the child or allow it to be adopted. While I realize that rape and incest are heinous and evil -- that does not make that child's life any less valuable to God.
History has shown, over and over, great people who were conceived under such horrible conditions -- who went on to have a major impact upon the world. What would have happened if that child had been killed by abortion before being allowed to make this contribution to mankind and to society? That would have left a big hole in our world. We cannot judge a child by the conditions of its conception.
Yes, I love my daughters and granddaughters -- and I would do anything to protect them. But, God loves that unborn child even more.
However, I am not saying that I wouldn't be very tempted to play Circumcision Doctor, with a dull knife, upon the man who did this. That would be the test of my Christian walk.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
She did the right thing in YOUR opinion, Bill. Not the right thing in the eyes of the Church, not to mention against God's Commandment. So no, I don't think she will be "freed" from dogma to find spiritual peace-that's just weird. Don't you know if you are excommunicated, all one needs to do is go to Confession!! It's not as harsh as it seems, but yes, doctrines and traditions must be upheld, as taught by Jesus, handed down through Apostolic Succession. But since you reject that, just think about "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". pretty elementary, really.
quote:"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
Accusing the Catholic church of idolatry again, Bill? Are you going to deny it again?
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
I am not evading anything. What I asked you, was plain and simple - do you have angel or cherub ornaments? any pictures of Jesus?
It's a yes/no question.
quote:Yes, I have pictures and drawings of Jesus Christ;
quote:Apostolic Succession is itself -- a MAN-MADE TRADITION.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Yes, I have pictures and drawings of Jesus Christ; but, I do not pray before them, kiss them, nor, in any way, see them as anything other that artist's representations of their concept of Jesus Christ. They are, in no way, religious objects -- and certainly not objects of adoration.
And no, Bill. Catholics do not "take out" a commandment. There is no definitive enumeration in the Bible. Like many things, Catholics and Protestants do not agree on this point, and probably never will. However, Bill, it doesn't matter the number or wording. The story of Exodus occurred what, 600 years before the written Word? So it had been passed down ORALLY ie through SACRED TRADITION until then.
And the Lord spoke all these words: 2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 You shall not have strange gods before me. 4 You shall not make to yourself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 You shall not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord your God, mighty, jealous,
Now, if you ever find a Catholic person "worshipping" or adoring a statue, I will eat my hat. Never seen it. Doubt I ever will. So in short, Protestants and Catholics alike do have objects that remind us of our Faith- pictures of Jesus, a cross necklace, a crucifix, the lamb, angels, statue of Mary, whatever. But do we bow down to them? no.
quote:cannot go into a Roman Catholic church without seeing people kneeling before the statue of Mary, Joseph, and other dead saints -- even to the point of kissing the statues
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray: And, as for bowing down to statues -- you cannot go into a Roman Catholic church without seeing people kneeling before the statue of Mary, Joseph, and other dead saints -- even to the point of kissing the statues. And, do you not kneel before the carved images on the Stations of the Cross? My Friend, this is kneeling, kissing, and worshiping -- regardless of what you call it.
This is a lie, Mr. Gray. I go into a Catholic Church at least 3 times per week. And I have done so for years. And I have never ever seen anyone kiss a statue. And you know what? It is very disrectful, your lack of reverence for the Saints. You should be nicer to them. They can help you!
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray: And, as for bowing down to statues -- you cannot go into a Roman Catholic church without seeing people kneeling before the statue of Mary, Joseph, and other dead saints -- even to the point of kissing the statues. And, do you not kneel before the carved images on the Stations of the Cross? My Friend, this is kneeling, kissing, and worshiping -- regardless of what you call it.
This is a lie, Mr. Gray. I go into a Catholic Church at least 3 times per week. And I have done so for years. And I have never ever seen anyone kiss a statue. And you know what? It is very disrectful, your lack of reverence for the Saints. You should be nicer to them. They can help you!
Hi VP,
Do not Roman Catholics kiss the rosary when praying? Do not Roman Catholics kneel, pray, and kiss the Stations of the Cross?
And, when you get a new statue, rosary, picture, etc. -- do you have it blessed by a priest?
Why?
Isn't that a form of worship?
And, addressing some of your statements in your other post -- are the Roman Catholic churches in Alabama different from those in Colorado, Virginia, and California? What I have shared about my experiences in the Roman Catholic churches is true. And, no I have not seen the Gospel of Jesus Christ shared in any mass. Now, you may have your own version of what you call the Gospel; but, what most Christians see as the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- is not the mass.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
quote:Originally posted by smokey1:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by vplee123:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray: And, as for bowing down to statues -- you cannot go into a Roman Catholic church without seeing people kneeling before the statue of Mary, Joseph, and other dead saints -- even to the point of kissing the statues. And, do you not kneel before the carved images on the Stations of the Cross? My Friend, this is kneeling, kissing, and worshiping -- regardless of what you call it.
This is a lie, Mr. Gray. I go into a Catholic Church at least 3 times per week. And I have done so for years. And I have never ever seen anyone kiss a statue. And you know what? It is very disrectful, your lack of reverence for the Saints. You should be nicer to them. They can help you!
Hi VP,
Do not Roman Catholics kiss the rosary when praying? Do not Roman Catholics kneel, pray, and kiss the Stations of the Cross?
And, when you get a new statue, rosary, picture, etc. -- do you have it blessed by a priest?
Why?
Isn't that a form of worship?
And, addressing some of your statements in your other post -- are the Roman Catholic churches in Alabama different from those in Colorado, Virginia, and California? What I have shared about my experiences in the Roman Catholic churches is true. And, no I have not seen the Gospel of Jesus Christ shared in any mass. Now, you may have your own version of what you call the Gospel; but, what most Christians see as the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- is not the mass.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Bill, you are such a liar.