Why We Must Have Impeachment

By Dave Lindorff

When impeachment hearings began for President Richard Nixon, a scant one in four Americans thought he should be impeached. During the Clinton impeachment farce, support for the president"s removal from office never topped 36 percent. Yet a Newsweek poll taken last fall found that a remarkable 51 percent of the American public felt this president should face impeachment .
http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/131/2/
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
We should impeach all of Washington.

These crooks have absolutely zero accountability.


Bush and Cheney for sure!


That would be a good start. Cheney is nothing more than a draft dodging war profiteer.
My personal distaine for this president aside, I remember the Nixon era, and I watched what the impeachment of Clinton did to this nation.
I believe we would be better served for congress to attempt to control this nutcase president via control of money. To tie this country up in what could be up to 2 years of hearings, votes, and everything else that would go along with an impeachment, then to have to endure a fight in the senate to kick him out, and then do the same for Cheney could have very draining impact.
Does he deserve impeachment ? of course . He has done great harm to this country. We may not fully recover in my lifetime.
Do we deserve to have that drain on us ? maybe not. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I say keep him in a box.
quote:
Originally posted by Tenpercent:
if you want to impeach bush because of iraq, what about all the democraps that voted to go to war? do you think they should be ran out of office too?


First of all... in my opinion, and as I have stated on past posts, I do not want Bush impeached, just because of Iraq, not any Democrat or Republican who voted for it in the first place.

THAT is not even close to the reasoning behind BUSH. He is proficieint at lieing, which he has done to us on FIVE different occasions, WITH FIVE different REASONS!!! Now that is just plain UNACCEPTABLE!!!

He is a war-monger, a money monger, and lies to the American public every chance he THINKS he can get away with it.

And surprisingly enough, he doesn't even CARE anymore, because he is "lame-duck"...

The people who did the actual voting did so with what they THOUGHT was what was best for our Country... Only the "SELECT FEW" knew the real reason.. and they are ALL about $$$$$$$$$$$... THAT is why we are there.

But all the lies told to the other politicians and to the public to GET us there is now catching up to Mr. Pres. ... Even a lot of the Republicans are MAN/WOMAN enough to admit when they are wrong.

The elected officials all THOUGHT they were doing the right thing..

Gosh, how many of them have been either accused, indicted or convicted of crimes in the last few years? More than we ever thought would happen.... So there are also "FALL GUYS" in place.. .. and being used.

I just will do my daily Prayers, and hope that God will NOT allow this Administration to get our Country in ANY more trouble than we already are.... And hope and Pray to God that he opens the eyes of the 'nay-sayers' to see just what Bush, Cheney and Company is all about.. and believe me... it is NOT YOUR best interests... it is THEIR best interest, and $$$$$$$$$$
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
My personal distaine for this president aside, I remember the Nixon era, and I watched what the impeachment of Clinton did to this nation.
I believe we would be better served for congress to attempt to control this nutcase president via control of money. To tie this country up in what could be up to 2 years of hearings, votes, and everything else that would go along with an impeachment, then to have to endure a fight in the senate to kick him out, and then do the same for Cheney could have very draining impact.
Does he deserve impeachment ? of course . He has done great harm to this country. We may not fully recover in my lifetime.
Do we deserve to have that drain on us ? maybe not. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I say keep him in a box.


excelman, I wish that I had of read your comment before typing so much in above, lol... You said it all in just a few sentences!!! Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
Why We Must Have Impeachment



Do you have any idea what "impeachment" is?

Looks as if the answer is no.

quote:
I believe we would be better served for congress to attempt to control this nutcase president via control of money. To tie this country up in what could be up to 2 years of hearings, votes, and everything else that would go along with an impeachment


Wasting time and tax dollars on salaries will likely be exactly what happens with such a divided Congress, and that is what deserves disdain. Party politics, at its finest.

quote:
Does he deserve impeachment ? of course . He has done great harm to this country. We may not fully recover in my lifetime.

On what charges? What illegality? I don't support everything this administration does or has done. However, I do have sense enough to realize the President does not act alone, nor is his power absolute. Furthermore, the President is not alone in the blame for what has happened to this country. It wasn't exactly top notch when he entered office and he has had to deal with more catastrophe than most others. Some would say catastrophe of his own making and in that I disagree. He doesn't control the terrorists or the weather.

IMO no President is ever remembered for the good that is done during their term. If one can not see the good through the bad then they are too clouded in their views and driven by their ideology to ever see truth and reality.

Just my two cents, consider it my contribution the fountain nearest you if you disagree.
quote:
Originally posted by kontan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
Why We Must Have Impeachment



Do you have any idea what "impeachment" is?

Looks as if the answer is no.

quote:
I believe we would be better served for congress to attempt to control this nutcase president via control of money. To tie this country up in what could be up to 2 years of hearings, votes, and everything else that would go along with an impeachment


Wasting time and tax dollars on salaries will likely be exactly what happens with such a divided Congress, and that is what deserves disdain. Party politics, at its finest.

quote:
Does he deserve impeachment ? of course . He has done great harm to this country. We may not fully recover in my lifetime.

On what charges? What illegality? I don't support everything this administration does or has done. However, I do have sense enough to realize the President does not act alone, nor is his power absolute. Furthermore, the President is not alone in the blame for what has happened to this country. It wasn't exactly top notch when he entered office and he has had to deal with more catastrophe than most others. Some would say catastrophe of his own making and in that I disagree. He doesn't control the terrorists or the weather.

IMO no President is ever remembered for the good that is done during their term. If one can not see the good through the bad then they are too clouded in their views and driven by their ideology to ever see truth and reality.

Just my two cents, consider it my contribution the fountain nearest you if you disagree.


OH, it is totally OBVIOUS he doesn't act alone... in fact, it is obvious Cheney is the 'brains'.... oh, and there are others... have been all along, remember any of those arrested? .... UGH, I would have hoped our little State as loving and homegrown as we are could see THROUGH this POWER/MONEY HUNGRY ADMINISTRATION!!!

People like you will come to your senses, when everything is on their plate, and nothing is on yours.. it is heading that way... think any of us is safe from the ripple effect of their lies??? NO we arent...

Think because they want to control the world, that is what WE want? Well, guess what, it doesnt matter what WE want, and never has... what has mattered for the last four years was getting someone experienced enough to write speeches spun around all the lies.. now THAT takes an expert!!!

The United States of America is NOT the world's Police!!! We proved that back in the Vietnam era.
Hmmmm.. ... you might just be surprised at all HE DOES control... him and his cronies!!!

Not in my lifetime, but in my kids lifetime, it will be TOLD what all he controlled, and we would ALL be astounded, I just bet you on that one...

Thinking he knew nothing about what was going to take place in 2001 is just rubbish...

Thinking he is not in control, and trying to gain world control, is naive... at best.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
People like you will come to your senses, when everything is on their plate, and nothing is on yours.. it is heading that way... think any of us is safe from the ripple effect of their lies??? NO we arent...

Think because they want to control the world, that is what WE want? Well, guess what, it doesnt matter what WE want, and never has... what has mattered for the last four years was getting someone experienced enough to write speeches spun around all the lies.. now THAT takes an expert!!!

The United States of America is NOT the world's Police!!! We proved that back in the Vietnam era.

You don't know me from Adam's house cat so the "people like you" crap doesn't fly. As for the plate statement, I take care of my own plate and if nothing is on mine then it is because I stopped working, not any other reason.
quote:
The United States of America is NOT the world's Police!!!



no one seemed interested in the 'black nobility' issue. You have hit the nail on the head with the above quoted statement. We are being used as puppets by the ruling families of the world. Don't think for a minute our lawmakers or president rule this country. A person has to look outside the here and now politics to see this.
quote:
Originally posted by kwilker:
I wonder how many of the people who were polled realized who would be president if he were impeached? How would you like Dick Cheney driving the bus? Not me.


From what I understand they're trying to impeach both Bush and chain head
quote:
Originally posted by Tenpercent:
if you want to impeach bush because of iraq, what about all the democraps that voted to go to war? do you think they should be ran out of office too?

Nope: They were lied to. If they don't impeach the lying liars for the lies they were told, they are complicit in the lies. But, if you look at the record, The Republicans stayed the course. Our "democraps" were the only resistance.
John Conyers HR 635 calls for "investigation that may lead to impeachment" of both Bush and Cheney. A successful impeachment of the two of them MAKES NANCY PELOSI NOT JUST THE FIRST WOMAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Nope: They were lied to. If they don't impeach the lying liars for the lies they were told, they are complicit in the lies. But, if you look at the record, The Republicans stayed the course. Our "democraps" were the only resistance.


they should check and double check what they are told, not just blindly believe whatever is fed to them. as for them being the only resistance, if things were better in iraq then they would be on their soapbox proclaiming how they had supported it from the start.
i don't like what's happening over there myself. i think things should have been handled differently from the start.
quote:
Originally posted by Tenpercent:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Nope: They were lied to. If they don't impeach the lying liars for the lies they were told, they are complicit in the lies. But, if you look at the record, The Republicans stayed the course. Our "democraps" were the only resistance.


they should check and double check what they are told, not just blindly believe whatever is fed to them. as for them being the only resistance, if things were better in iraq then they would be on their soapbox proclaiming how they had supported it from the start.
i don't like what's happening over there myself. i think things should have been handled differently from the start.



Bush has learned to mumble without moving his lips, a sure sign he is lying, and a lot of the Democrats were drunk , so he pulled it off.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
And Mott's question remains unanswered. What is impeachment?


I'll step in the batters box and take a swing:

Impeachment is nothing more than an indictment upon someone (President or whomever) by the U.S. House of Representatives. Charges are drawn up, the House votes. Majority rules. The person is then impeached (happened only twice: Andrew Johnson in 1868 I believe, Bill Klinton in 1998). Then, the impeached person is tried in the Senate with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as the Senate trial judge, in session. Again, majority rules. If the majority rules the impeached person guilty, then that person is removed from office. Andrew Johnson was 1 vote away from being removed from office. Bill Klinton's trial happened, but he was not voted out of office.
Again, it is either majority rule or 2/3 rule of vote in the Senate to remove someone from office. The House impeachment proceedings do not remove one from office.

Think of it like this: the House is like a Grand Jury- they determine if charges are warranted. Impeached is akin to indicted. The Senate is the trial, and find the defendant/impeached one guilty or not.

I find it amuzing: "We must impeach (whomeever)" and they think that will remove someone from office. Nope, does not. Too many Americans, sadly, do not know the Constitution at all.....I carry a small copy of the Constitution, Bill of Rights with Amendments, and Declaration of Independence all the time. I received this copy from the American Legion when I attended Boys State in 1989. It is our country, our government. To not know what it is about or how it is run is a shame and disgrace.
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Brentenman,
I have a question.Can both Bush and Cheney be impeached at the same time?


I do not see why not. It has never been done before, and I don't think it will happen now. However, you have an issue with the VP being President of the Senate....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

I think in that case, the Senate Pro Tempore takes his place. The Wikipedia article discusses just that as Spiro T. Agnew in 1973 was trying to force Congress to impeach him...read the article, states more.

Next, Bush and Cheny will not get impeached over Iraq. Just not going to happen. Too many people, to include the Senate and House, had the same intel shared by the: U.N., NATO, Russia, etc. which led to the U.S. and UK coalition that invaded Iraq and overthrew Saddam Hussein. Additionally, several U.N. resolutions authorized a use of force to remove him, going back to 1993 I believe. Hindsite is 20/20...I personally am glad Saddam didn't have or use the stuff as if he did, I would most likely would have been slimed at the Karbala Gap around 2 April 2003....

Yeah, you may dislike him, but just won't happen, I feel. This is an honest, unbiased answer.

Now, what REALLY needs to happen is an investigation of why our borders are not secured enough during a time of war...THAT is what bothers me...and plenty of blame to go around for that.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
A successful impeachment of the two of them MAKES NANCY PELOSI NOT JUST THE FIRST WOMAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT.


Would that be the same Nancy Pelosi that lists her net worth between 14 and 55 million dollars?
Would that be the same Nancy Pelosi whos' largest "contributor" last year was Occidental petroleum? (didn't Occidental Petroleum pay to clean up the toxic spill at Love Canal)
While this in no way makes her unfit to be President, just follow the money. I think you'll find out she'll dance just like the rest of em. Same song different verse. As Mott said earlier they're all just puppets.
Here's a revolutionary idea, perhaps we don't need a millionaire lawyer.

vote-em-all-out
quote:
Originally posted by kontan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
[QUOTE] Why We Must Have Impeachment



Do you have any idea what "impeachment" is?

Looks as if the answer is no.

quote:
I believe we would be better served for congress to attempt to control this nutcase president via control of money. To tie this country up in what could be up to 2 years of hearings, votes, and everything else that would go along with an impeachment


Wasting time and tax dollars on salaries will likely be exactly what happens with such a divided Congress, and that is what deserves disdain. Party politics, at its finest.

quote:
Does he deserve impeachment ? of course . He has done great harm to this country. We may not fully recover in my lifetime.

On what charges? What illegality? I don't support everything this administration does or has done.

On the charge of failing his vow to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" to start.

On being a danger to the security of this nation for seconds.

I will have to confess it has been 6 years since I last read the Constitution, so I am a little fuzzy on what all, and as soon as I get in off the road I will read it again. Bet I can find some more things he can be impeached on.
(still don't think it is worth the trouble)
quote:
Originally posted by midknightrider:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
A successful impeachment of the two of them MAKES NANCY PELOSI NOT JUST THE FIRST WOMAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT.


Would that be the same Nancy Pelosi that lists her net worth between 14 and 55 million dollars?
Would that be the same Nancy Pelosi whos' largest "contributor" last year was Occidental petroleum? (didn't Occidental Petroleum pay to clean up the toxic spill at Love Canal)
While this in no way makes her unfit to be President, just follow the money. I think you'll find out she'll dance just like the rest of em. Same song different verse. As Mott said earlier they're all just puppets.
Here's a revolutionary idea, perhaps we don't need a millionaire lawyer.

vote-em-all-out


There is a lot of area beetween 14, and 55 million. Heck that's almost as much as an Alabama football coach makes. Pocket cange for Cheney.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
There is a lot of area beetween 14, and 55 million. Heck that's almost as much as an Alabama football coach makes. Pocket cange for Cheney.


That's what she reported on disclosure forms.
I sure hope she gets closer when she's doling out those taxpayer dollars. Whether it's 14 or 55, thats still more than most people. She's not your average American women. She might be the greatest President ever, I don't know, but I think your just replacing one millionaire lawyer with another.
quote:
Originally posted by kontan:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
People like you will come to your senses, when everything is on their plate, and nothing is on yours.. it is heading that way... think any of us is safe from the ripple effect of their lies??? NO we arent...

Think because they want to control the world, that is what WE want? Well, guess what, it doesnt matter what WE want, and never has... what has mattered for the last four years was getting someone experienced enough to write speeches spun around all the lies.. now THAT takes an expert!!!

The United States of America is NOT the world's Police!!! We proved that back in the Vietnam era.

You don't know me from Adam's house cat so the "people like you" crap doesn't fly. As for the plate statement, I take care of my own plate and if nothing is on mine then it is because I stopped working, not any other reason.


Isn't it amazing just how much people CAN get to know each other, just by reading their opinons and thoughts. I was going by what you said... and it is people who are the largest "NAY-SAYERS" whose eyes will be opened the widest... done lived long enough to have seen it time and time and time and time again.

You might be being just a little snide with that comment, but I stick by what I say... mark it on your calendar, you will find out the truth someday, and THEN you will think of what was said here on TimesDaily Forums Big Grin Nice day to ya!! Big Grin
If you are going by what I said then you missed a few things. I don't support all this administration has done, or pushes for. However, I attempt to see the good before I attack the bad so that I am not blinded by single issues.

quote:
what has mattered for the last four years was getting someone experienced enough to write speeches spun around all the lies

Is this admin the first to have speech writers? LOL, not even close. The country has been spiraling long before this admin took office, some are just too blinded by slick speaking politicians to see it.

Impeachment would be a waste of tax dollars. Sure would be a nice diversion for the next election though.
quote:
Originally posted by kontan:
If you are going by what I said then you missed a few things. I don't support all this administration has done, or pushes for. However, I attempt to see the good before I attack the bad so that I am not blinded by single issues.

quote:
what has mattered for the last four years was getting someone experienced enough to write speeches spun around all the lies

Is this admin the first to have speech writers? LOL, not even close. The country has been spiraling long before this admin took office, some are just too blinded by slick speaking politicians to see it.

Impeachment would be a waste of tax dollars. Sure would be a nice diversion for the next election though.

Kontan,
I think you missed the point. It has been more important to Bush to Present Propoganda, than to accomplish Legitimate goals. His speechwriters have been working overtime getting nifty little factoids half truths and LIES on the record and his advisors have been cherry picking the facts to help them do it.
A nice Solid successful Impeachment might just get the rest of the world thinking the AMERICAN POLITICIANS ARE NOT A BUNCH OF LILLY LIVERED SYCOPHANTS AND WAR CRIMINALS.
It's very possible that by the time the Scooter Libby trial is over, the path of treason may well lead all the way to the White House.
Much of the way Bush has operated will be "outted.
I personally believe that revealing the idenity of Valery Wilson, and the shell company she worked for, which was gathering intelligence on of all places , Iran, is treason. Treason is a hanging offience. Maybe , in truth, instead of an impeachment, a few hangings might be in order. -you know we'll never see that tho.
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
It's very possible that by the time the Scooter Libby trial is over, the path of treason may well lead all the way to the White House.
Much of the way Bush has operated will be "outted.
I personally believe that revealing the idenity of Valery Wilson, and the shell company she worked for, which was gathering intelligence on of all places , Iran, is treason. Treason is a hanging offience. Maybe , in truth, instead of an impeachment, a few hangings might be in order. -you know we'll never see that tho.

excelman, NOT JUST IRAN. Valerie Plame was running agents through a CIA front company tracking the sale of NUCLEAR WEAPONS TECHNOLOGY.
Exposing her as an active agent may have caused the deaths of some foreign operatives who were working with that company, they disappeared in any case. THE EXPOSURE SHUT DOWN A LONG TERM CIA OPERATION.
It is not the only SECURITY breech the administration is GUILTY OF. (A trial is needed only to determine the punishment.) Condelezza Rice IN A PRESS BRIEFING, EXPOSED A HIGH RANKING Al Qaeda operative, Mohammed Noor Kahn, who was cooperating with Pakistani Authorities, and was probably in a position to PREVENT the London Subway bombings. THESE PEOPLE WILL DO ANYTHING FOR POLITICAL COVER.
quote:
Originally posted by Tenpercent:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Nope: They were lied to. If they don't impeach the lying liars for the lies they were told, they are complicit in the lies. But, if you look at the record, The Republicans stayed the course. Our "democraps" were the only resistance.


they should check and double check what they are told, not just blindly believe whatever is fed to them. as for them being the only resistance, if things were better in iraq then they would be on their soapbox proclaiming how they had supported it from the start.
i don't like what's happening over there myself. i think things should have been handled differently from the start.

I agree with you Tenpercent. It is called due dilligence. The problem is the ONLY information available was that information the Administation made available, Unless you want foreign intelligence agencies dealing with Dennis Kuchinich you have to accept what the Administration tells you.
The sad part is, all the Bush-bashers and anti-Republicans will turn around and vote for Hillary (or whichever Democrat spends the most money), not because they're better, but just because they're different. Then we'll start the cycle all over again. We've been doing it for as long as I can remember. We need to clean house in Washington D.C. ..... vote-em-all-out
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
Why We Must Have Impeachment

By Dave Lindorff

When impeachment hearings began for President Richard Nixon, a scant one in four Americans thought he should be impeached. During the Clinton impeachment farce, support for the president"s removal from office never topped 36 percent. Yet a Newsweek poll taken last fall found that a remarkable 51 percent of the American public felt this president should face impeachment .
http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/131/2/


This link was specifically chosen to throw red meat in front of the hydrophobic dogs.
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/162
"The Bush Administration is employing private armies to fight in Iraq. These "private military contractors," that is, mercenaries, are often ex-U.S. special forces soldiers with additional paramilitary training operating below the radar. Their legal status in Iraq falls under neither civilian nor military jurisdiction, and they earn far more money than American troops." Buzz Flash, and more, "The problem of out of control contractors has become such a problem that U.S. Rep. David Price (D-NC) has introduced legislation to bring transparency and accountability to private contractors, and subjects them to oversight in civilian courts. "The lack of a legal framework for battlefield contracting has allowed certain rogue contractor employees to perpetrate heinous criminal acts without the threat of prosecution," Price said." and more, "With tens of thousands of completely unregulated American mercenaries at his disposal, George Bush commands a considerably larger military presence in Iraq than most people realize. It is important to remember that each of these people are American citizens - at least one of the recent helicopter casualties was fresh out of the Marines. However, there are serious problems with subcontracting national defense to private corporations under secretive conditions with no oversight." Well most are American Citizens, but two of the first Contractors Killed were Former South African Apartheid Government Security Police.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Kontan,
I think you missed the point.

There was a point? Seriously, didn't miss the point. Spinning is the job of speechwriters. I just view the argument as a moot point. As for American politicians they all have their own personal agenda and it has very little to do with the good of the whole. My point in previous posts is that occasionally some good is done, but it is so far overshadowed by the negative because that is all people choose to see. Anyone in the office is in a no win situation.

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