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Would Passing Universal Health Care Kill the GOP?


Signs point to yes.



Barack Obama's selection of Tom Daschle as Health and Human Services Secretary, as well as "health reform czar," signals that the incoming president is serious about passing comprehensive healthcare reform. Over at the think tank Cato, Michael Cannon warns that blocking any such legislation is vital for the GOP's survival (h/t Kos):

Ditto Baucus' health plan. And Kennedy's. And Wyden's.

Why? Norman Markowitz, a contributing editor at PoliticalAffairs.net (motto: "Marxist Thought Online"), makes an interesting point about how making citizens dependent on the government for their medical care can change the fates of political parties:

A "single payer" national health system -- known as "socialized medicine" in the rest of the developed world -- should be an essential part of the change that the core constituencies which elected Obama desperately need. Britain serves as an important political lesson for strategists. After the Labor Party established the National Health Service after World War II, supposedly conservative workers and low-income people under religious and other influences who tended to support the Conservatives were much more likely to vote for the Labor Party...



James Pethokoukis, at U.S. News and World Report, draws the same conclusion as Cannon does from Markowitz's analysis of how universal healthcare changed the political dynamic in Britain:

The GOP strategist had been joking about the upcoming presidential election and giving his humorous assessments of the candidates. Then he suddenly cut out the schtick and got scary serious. "Let me tell you something, if Democrats take the White House and pass a big-government healthcare plan, that's it. Game over. Government will dominate the economy like it does in Europe. Conservatives will spend the rest of their lives trying to turn things around and they will fail..."

...Recently, I stumbled across this analysis of how nationalized healthcare in Great Britain affected the political environment there. As Norman Markowitz in Political Affairs, a journal of "Marxist thought," puts it: "After the Labor Party established the National Health Service after World War II, supposedly conservative workers and low-income people under religious and other influences who tended to support the Conservatives were much more likely to vote for the Labor Party when health care, social welfare, education and pro-working class policies were enacted by labor-supported governments."

Passing Obamacare would be like performing exactly the opposite function of turning people into investors. Whereas the Investor Class is more conservative than the rest of America, creating the Obamacare Class would pull America to the left. Michael Cannon of the Cato Institute, who first found that wonderful Markowitz quote, puts it succinctly in a recent blog post: "Blocking Obama's health plan is key to the GOP's survival."

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Basically, this article is stating that the passing of a universal healthcare plan would ruin not only the GOP, but also what this country was founded upon. If this passes the Democrats will have won the battle over the healthcare issue, but the end result will be a loss for this country.

If government would do their job when it comes to overseeing frivelous medical lawsuits and minimizing illegal immigrants from accessing our healthcare as well as stop rewarding those who choose to procreate as a source of employment instead of work to provide for themselves, we would be able to continue to have the best healthcare at affordable prices.
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
Basically, this article is stating that the passing of a universal healthcare plan would ruin not only the GOP, but also what this country was founded upon. If this passes the Democrats will have won the battle over the healthcare issue, but the end result will be a loss for this country.

If government would do their job when it comes to overseeing frivelous medical lawsuits and minimizing illegal immigrants from accessing our healthcare as well as stop rewarding those who choose to procreate as a source of employment instead of work to provide for themselves, we would be able to continue to have the best healthcare at affordable prices.




I do not get your point, healthcare cost have wiped out family savings and have lost their homes, because they could not afford healthcare. The republicans are all for bailing out wall street and could care less about main street.
This is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the Republicans. Their Wall Street first mentality has created an environment where as jobs go overseas, society is left to clean up the mess. When people lose their jobs to overseas, they still get sick, they still need medixal care, couple this with the flood of illegal aliens, and you have a crisis in which health care costs are shifted to those with insurance, or the ability to pay.

This is a defacto tax increase. When you factor in that medical bills drive a vast majority of bankruptcies, you have a catastrophic meltdown in the healthcare of this country.

The solution is capping executive pay. Forcing companies to move jobs back to the USA or face exorbitant tax increases. Create jobs and a job invironment that provides health insurace and the costs are spread out over a larger percentage of the population, with less losses to the uninsured, hospital and medical professionals will be able to actually make MORE money and work less hours: You reading this TEYates?

Unfortunately the greed of the republicans and their failure to stand up for ALL America is going to give us socialised medicine; So thank George Bush and the Republican Revolution for what you are about to get.
quote:
Originally posted by JJPAUL:
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
Basically, this article is stating that the passing of a universal healthcare plan would ruin not only the GOP, but also what this country was founded upon. If this passes the Democrats will have won the battle over the healthcare issue, but the end result will be a loss for this country.

If government would do their job when it comes to overseeing frivelous medical lawsuits and minimizing illegal immigrants from accessing our healthcare as well as stop rewarding those who choose to procreate as a source of employment instead of work to provide for themselves, we would be able to continue to have the best healthcare at affordable prices.




I do not get your point, healthcare cost have wiped out family savings and have lost their homes, because they could not afford healthcare. The republicans are all for bailing out wall street and could care less about main street.


What are you talking about? Some people probably have lost their homes and family savings to healthcare costs. What do you think that percentage is? 3, maybe 5% of the population. The problem with healthcare is that there are too many leaches in our society who take advantage of the system, from trial lawyers to deadbeat Americans to illegal immigrants. The lack of personal responsibility is what is destroying and bankrupting this country.

I guess you threw in the comment about Republicans not caring about main street because nobody's ever seen you type that on here before. Good grief. Just because you type it 10,000 times doesn't neccessarily make it true.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
This is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the Republicans. Their Wall Street first mentality has created an environment where as jobs go overseas, society is left to clean up the mess. When people lose their jobs to overseas, they still get sick, they still need medixal care, couple this with the flood of illegal aliens, and you have a crisis in which health care costs are shifted to those with insurance, or the ability to pay.

This is a defacto tax increase. When you factor in that medical bills drive a vast majority of bankruptcies, you have a catastrophic meltdown in the healthcare of this country.

The solution is capping executive pay. Forcing companies to move jobs back to the USA or face exorbitant tax increases. Create jobs and a job invironment that provides health insurace and the costs are spread out over a larger percentage of the population, with less losses to the uninsured, hospital and medical professionals will be able to actually make MORE money and work less hours: You reading this TEYates?

Unfortunately the greed of the republicans and their failure to stand up for ALL America is going to give us socialised medicine; So thank George Bush and the Republican Revolution for what you are about to get.


Get a life! Both sides abuse the healthcare sysytem and both sides ship jobs out of this country.
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
This is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the Republicans. Their Wall Street first mentality has created an environment where as jobs go overseas, society is left to clean up the mess. When people lose their jobs to overseas, they still get sick, they still need medixal care, couple this with the flood of illegal aliens, and you have a crisis in which health care costs are shifted to those with insurance, or the ability to pay.

This is a defacto tax increase. When you factor in that medical bills drive a vast majority of bankruptcies, you have a catastrophic meltdown in the healthcare of this country.

The solution is capping executive pay. Forcing companies to move jobs back to the USA or face exorbitant tax increases. Create jobs and a job invironment that provides health insurace and the costs are spread out over a larger percentage of the population, with less losses to the uninsured, hospital and medical professionals will be able to actually make MORE money and work less hours: You reading this TEYates?

Unfortunately the greed of the republicans and their failure to stand up for ALL America is going to give us socialised medicine; So thank George Bush and the Republican Revolution for what you are about to get.


Get a life! Both sides abuse the healthcare sysytem and both sides ship jobs out of this country.


Ha, what color is the sky in your world?
Universal health care is a true joke, when right now we have healthcare tourists coming to this country, receiving costly medical treatment, and then leaving with their bills unpaid.

And before anyone calls me insensitive; no, I don't really care if someone from Paraguay dies because they can't get decent health care in their country and can only get it by stealing it from the US. The health care fairy doesn't pay for it, the US taxpayer does. There are hospitals in LA county now that are closing because of this type of abuse.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
This is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the Republicans. Their Wall Street first mentality has created an environment where as jobs go overseas, society is left to clean up the mess. When people lose their jobs to overseas, they still get sick, they still need medixal care, couple this with the flood of illegal aliens, and you have a crisis in which health care costs are shifted to those with insurance, or the ability to pay.

This is a defacto tax increase. When you factor in that medical bills drive a vast majority of bankruptcies, you have a catastrophic meltdown in the healthcare of this country.

The solution is capping executive pay. Forcing companies to move jobs back to the USA or face exorbitant tax increases. Create jobs and a job invironment that provides health insurace and the costs are spread out over a larger percentage of the population, with less losses to the uninsured, hospital and medical professionals will be able to actually make MORE money and work less hours: You reading this TEYates?

Unfortunately the greed of the republicans and their failure to stand up for ALL America is going to give us socialised medicine; So thank George Bush and the Republican Revolution for what you are about to get.


Get a life! Both sides abuse the healthcare sysytem and both sides ship jobs out of this country.


Ha, what color is the sky in your world?


Extra, how can you, in all honesty, think that Republicans are the reason for all of the problems in our country? They both cater to whomever lines their pockets. Why don't you and JJ sail off to a country like Cuba or Venezuela so you don't have to deal with all those evil Republicans.
quote:
Extra, how can you, in all honesty, think that Republicans are the reason for all of the problems in our country? They both cater to whomever lines their pockets. Why don't you and JJ sail off to a country like Cuba or Venezuela so you don't have to deal with all those evil Republicans.
Posts: 804 | Location: Sheffield, AL | Re




Respectfully Illini,
At what time does the republicans who have had the Whitehouse 20 of the last 28 years and the congress from 1994 to 2004 and the senate off and on going back into the 80's; At what point do they become the party of record and you hold them accountable? It seems the vast majority of our country just held them accountable in the last election, when will you?
Maybe it's the whole system that's broken.

It doesn't matter, republican or democrat. The government is a massive entity that has taken on a life all its own. It has become its own reason for existence. Like any other organism, it must grow to survive and thrive. It adapts itself to its environment, and the environmental pressures it experiences drive it one way or the other. If someone throws enough money at it, it will respond favorably because money is the lifeblood, food, and oxygen for this behemoth. It believes itself to be the sole proprietor of the nation's wealth, and uses it to assure its continued dominance. It is no longer the servant of the nation; it is well on its way to becoming the master.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Extra, how can you, in all honesty, think that Republicans are the reason for all of the problems in our country? They both cater to whomever lines their pockets. Why don't you and JJ sail off to a country like Cuba or Venezuela so you don't have to deal with all those evil Republicans.
Posts: 804 | Location: Sheffield, AL | Re




Respectfully Illini,
At what time does the republicans who have had the Whitehouse 20 of the last 28 years and the congress from 1994 to 2004 and the senate off and on going back into the 80's; At what point do they become the party of record and you hold them accountable? It seems the vast majority of our country just held them accountable in the last election, when will you?


I hold every politician accountable and they are so intertwined that it's impossible to separate them. Who do you hold accountable for the economic success we have had compared to other countries over the last thirty years. Why does everyone look to us for help? We must be doing some things right. Both sides are to blame.
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Extra, how can you, in all honesty, think that Republicans are the reason for all of the problems in our country? They both cater to whomever lines their pockets. Why don't you and JJ sail off to a country like Cuba or Venezuela so you don't have to deal with all those evil Republicans.
Posts: 804 | Location: Sheffield, AL | Re




Respectfully Illini,
At what time does the republicans who have had the Whitehouse 20 of the last 28 years and the congress from 1994 to 2004 and the senate off and on going back into the 80's; At what point do they become the party of record and you hold them accountable? It seems the vast majority of our country just held them accountable in the last election, when will you?


I hold every politician accountable and they are so intertwined that it's impossible to separate them. Who do you hold accountable for the economic success we have had compared to other countries over the last thirty years. Why does everyone look to us for help? We must be doing some things right. Both sides are to blame.



The economic success of the last 20 years is due to the credit bubble orchestrated by the Federal Reserve which has now popped and leading us into the next depression; Just like 1929, same thing, same group of people, same policies, same results.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
The economic success of the last 20 years is due to the credit bubble...


This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. So, advancing technology, improved communications capability, enhanced productivity...these things have nothing to do with the economic success of the last twenty years. Microprocessors, fiber optics, the internet, and the evolution of the global marketplace were only figments of the imagination. The Federal Reserve Bank is solely responsible for the economic successes this country has enjoyed.

While the credit bubble was created by certain members of the government feeling sorry for people they believed to be economically disenfranchised, and forced rules upon lenders that reduced the cost of risky investments. The liberal tagline that, "the poor have not enjoyed the fruits of the enhanced economy" drove regulators to foist unreasonable lending rules that resulted in loans being made to people who could not realistically be expected to repay them. Not everyone can have a large house, new cars in the driveway, and a 52" big screen TV in their living room.

The credit bubble was a manifestation of socialist policy in a capitalistic, entrepreneurial economic environment. Capitalism won (sort of) and the market is now in the process of correcting itself. It will hurt, but will be worse if the government continues to mess with it. If the liberals forcing these policies had any idea how economics works, rather than a dream of how it should work, we would not be in this situation. There will always be poor; there will always be people who are unemployed. Often times the two are connected and may be the result of their own choices. Pursuing a career as an eight-track tape player dealer would probably not be the best choice. One cannot cure bad choices in life by fiat.
New tighter credit will change the way Americans live with debt.

Only a few generations ago, a life well-lived wasn't lived on borrowed money.
Patience, not purchases, was priceless. Credit cards were used only for emergencies. People paid cash for new cars. Paying off a home mortgage was cause for pride and celebration.

Now American consumers are drowning in debt. And last week, turmoil in the financial industry prompted Congress to step in with a $700 billion plan meant to keep the nation's economy from dissolving into a pile of broken dreams and spoiled fortunes.


Whether they believe the federal government bailout will work, financial experts agree on one thing: We're heading into a world of tighter credit that will change how Americans use, and view, debt.

A shift already is happening, with most of the country's major lenders tightening their standards for all types of credit. And it's a wake-up call to American families, who are toting more than $2.58 trillion in debt after years of building up balances on mortgages, car loans, credit cards and college loans.

Credit card issuers are mailing out fewer offers. Companies like American Express are slashing spending limits for existing customers. And both homeowners and business owners have seen their credit lines reduced - or eliminated.

The credit contractions have been most evident in recent weeks, with Wall Street's bedrock crumbling and the government struggling to find a fix. The Senate passed legislation Wednesday authorizing the U.S. Treasury to buy bad loans from banks, and the House followed Friday. Some economists say the plan will melt the frozen credit markets and get the economy moving again, while others call the bill a short-term fix that ignores deeper problems in the housing market.

Link
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Extra, how can you, in all honesty, think that Republicans are the reason for all of the problems in our country? They both cater to whomever lines their pockets. Why don't you and JJ sail off to a country like Cuba or Venezuela so you don't have to deal with all those evil Republicans.
Posts: 804 | Location: Sheffield, AL | Re




Respectfully Illini,
At what time does the republicans who have had the Whitehouse 20 of the last 28 years and the congress from 1994 to 2004 and the senate off and on going back into the 80's; At what point do they become the party of record and you hold them accountable? It seems the vast majority of our country just held them accountable in the last election, when will you?


I hold every politician accountable and they are so intertwined that it's impossible to separate them. Who do you hold accountable for the economic success we have had compared to other countries over the last thirty years. Why does everyone look to us for help? We must be doing some things right. Both sides are to blame.



The economic success of the last 20 years is due to the credit bubble orchestrated by the Federal Reserve which has now popped and leading us into the next depression; Just like 1929, same thing, same group of people, same policies, same results.


You are so blinded by party hate that it's laughable. Most of the economic success over the last twenty years has been earned by the innovativeness and hardwork of the American people. There will always be hiccups due to greed and special interests, but that will always be the case.
Extra,

"The economic success of the last 20 years is due to the credit bubble orchestrated by the Federal Reserve which has now popped and leading us into the next depression; Just like 1929, same thing, same group of people, same policies, same results."

This is the most ignorant explanation for the present economic problems I've yet read.

Now, what explains the even worse problems I'm seeing in Europe and the UK, even though most of their banks didn't invest in subprime securities and are much more regulated that those in the US?
Although I living between the UK and France, I keep a private insurance policy and keep as far as possible from the state supported healthcare. As do, those that can, do so, as well.

When working as a civilian on Germany, in the later seventies, for the US Army, a German doctor told me that none of the German medical personnel used the state system. I got the message, quickly.
quote:
Maybe it's the whole system that's broken.

It doesn't matter, republican or democrat. The government is a massive entity that has taken on a life all its own. It has become its own reason for existence. Like any other organism, it must grow to survive and thrive. It adapts itself to its environment, and the environmental pressures it experiences drive it one way or the other. If someone throws enough money at it, it will respond favorably because money is the lifeblood, food, and oxygen for this behemoth. It believes itself to be the sole proprietor of the nation's wealth, and uses it to assure its continued dominance. It is no longer the servant of the nation; it is well on its way to becoming the master.


I couldn't agree more.

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