Skip to main content

From the Wall Street Journal: Link

"Atheists Reach Out -- Just Don't Call It Proselytizing

Nonbelievers Think the Time Is Right to Better Organize Their Nonreligion and Swell the Membership; 'Reason's Greetings'"

Late next month, atheists, humanists, freethinkers, secularists -- in short, nonbelievers of every description -- will gather in dozens of cities to mark the holiday they call HumanLight.

Whether by singing from a Humanist Hymnal, decorating a winter wreath or lighting candles dedicated to personal heroes, they'll celebrate what has been an exhilarating ride for the faithless -- a surge in recognition that has many convinced they're on the brink of making a mark on mainstream America.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Two paragraphs I liked.

"Atheists can act very much like Christian fundamentalists from time to time," said James Webb, president of the Community of Reason in Kansas City, which includes both believers and skeptics. "It's important not to be in-your-face with people."

"A pastor can say to his flock, 'All rise,' and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting," said Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. "A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing....That's why it's hard to say where we're going as a movement."
Meh.

Fragmentation, the order of the day.

Quote from the same article:

“Still, leading activists say nonbelievers tend to be just as wary of organized atheism as they are of organized religion -- making it tough to pull together a cohesive movement.”

"A pastor can say to his flock, 'All rise,' and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting," said Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. "A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing....That's why it's hard to say where we're going as a movement."
quote:
They better be careful. Their on the road to becoming an "organized religion"


Organizing atheists for the sake of atheism is really as silly as organizing people who don't believe in Santa any more. Beyond "disbelief" we don't necessarily have a darn thing in common that would unite us in a common cause - which is a hallmark of religion.

I am a humanist. Humanism (a moral philosophy based on science, reason, and compassion and equality for your fellow man), is a form of organized atheism that does serve to unite non-believers under a moralistic commonality.

I have no idea if any of the other heathens share my "religious" view of this facet of atheism. I don't really care, either, which neatly explains why atheists are hard to herd. Wink
Not a "religion", but plenty of evangelists or enthusiastic advocates nonetheless. When it crosses over to intolerance of others and as the guys says in the article "in-your-face with people", I don't care what you call it. It's annoying and rude.

If you believe, don't turn into the sin police, which destroys any chance you had of witnessing to someone anyway.

If you don't believe, don't turn into Christian police, either making sure all Christians are being Christian enough for you <or> telling them how ignorant they are for having the audacity to come to a different conclusion than yourself.

Of course, I realize that anyone who would take that advice already follows it. The rest won't change because some anonymous chick on the forums said it. Big Grin
quote:
Not a "religion", but plenty of evangelists or enthusiastic advocates nonetheless.


Herro Joy,

Imagine you are in a world that strangely resembles Nazi Germany. There is a rampant "belief" that a certain group of people are evil because they do not perceive reality quite the same as you. In fact, you once agreed with the regime but after you met a few of these people, you decided that they really aren't evil after all. In fact, most seem to be pretty smart, gentle and mostly kind. Their crime is that they reason differently than you.

That is the plight of the atheist, Joy. They are a very small minority of the population (less than 2% according to some). They are hated, despised, preached against and occasionally threatened with violence or even killed. Their rights are trampled upon on a daily basis. They cannot serve in public office or publicly profess our beliefs. Except for a few vocal people (in this forum and elsewhere) we generally suffer in silence.

I can't blame them if they occasionally want to attempt to rally but I don't really see it going anywhere. There just isn't enough members.

Yet.
quote:
They are hated, despised, preached against and occasionally threatened with violence or even killed.

Not by everyone Skeptik, I have no problem with how you believe or don't believe,just as I do not have a problem with any other religion than Christianity of which I participate.
I do hate someone telling me I am stupid for believeing in something that cannot be proven. I believe, therefore it is my personal choice. You can chose as you please too.
I don't hate you or wish you ill or hope you change.
I am a believer in a power greater than ourselves. Not once have Skeptic, Deep Fat, GoFish, or any of the other atheists on this forum called me stupid. I know I can't prove there is a God but my beliefs work for and comfort me. I've gotten much more ridicule from the likes of Bill and his disciple, MonetLisa, because I don't believe as they do. In fact, other self professed Christians on this site have called me an atheist.
Would you ridicule a Jewish person for their faith? Hell no. So why ridicule an atheist because they rely on reason for answers? ust because they are atheists does not make them heinous criminals, pedophiles, or otherwise undesirable citizens. Personally, I find them much more accepting than most of the Christians on this site.
And to tell the truth, I don't think a loving God gives a hoot.
And if some of you Christians were as strong in your faith as you profess to be, then it wouldn't matter if they thought what you believed was stupid or not, now would it?
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Not a "religion", but plenty of evangelists or enthusiastic advocates nonetheless. When it crosses over to intolerance of others and as the guys says in the article "in-your-face with people", I don't care what you call it. It's annoying and rude.

If you believe, don't turn into the sin police, which destroys any chance you had of witnessing to someone anyway.

If you don't believe, don't turn into Christian police, either making sure all Christians are being Christian enough for you <or> telling them how ignorant they are for having the audacity to come to a different conclusion than yourself.

Of course, I realize that anyone who would take that advice already follows it. The rest won't change because some anonymous chick on the forums said it. Big Grin


Amen Joy! Be a good example and keep your mouth shut. You might just bring a lot more people to Christ.
quote:
Originally posted by Eye-gor:
I am a believer in a power greater than ourselves. Not once have Skeptic, Deep Fat, GoFish, or any of the other atheists on this forum called me stupid. I know I can't prove there is a God but my beliefs work for and comfort me. I've gotten much more ridicule from the likes of Bill and his disciple, MonetLisa, because I don't believe as they do. In fact, other self professed Christians on this site have called me an atheist.
Would you ridicule a Jewish person for their faith? Hell no. So why ridicule an atheist because they rely on reason for answers? ust because they are atheists does not make them heinous criminals, pedophiles, or otherwise undesirable citizens. Personally, I find them much more accepting than most of the Christians on this site.
And to tell the truth, I don't think a loving God gives a hoot.
And if some of you Christians were as strong in your faith as you profess to be, then it wouldn't matter if they thought what you believed was stupid or not, now would it?

If they think it, that's one thing, saying it is rude regardless of the reason. The same as you calling Mr. Gray


Yeah, a new name for Bill - The Sin Nazi.

Glad to see you are not pretending to be Gofish any more. That wasn't very nice was it?



Eye-gor
Familiar Face
Picture of Eye-gor

Posted 01 November 2008 01:48 PM Hide Post
That hogwash is not for me. I'll just go back to being GoFish.


"Abby someone."

Posts: 418 | Location: Froderick Fronkensteen's Castle | Registered: 29 September



Ignored post by Eye-gor posted 19 October 2008 06:34 PM Show Post
DeepFat
Hall of Famer
Picture of DeepFat

Posted 19 October 2008 06:36 PM Hide Post
Eye-gor/Fish,

You're so busted.


DF


There is nothing worse than ignorance with conviction-- old E Clampus Vitus saying

Posts: 5490 | Location: Hollywood, CA | Registered: 18 January 2007 Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by DeepFat posted 19 October 2008 06:36 PM Show Post
Eye-gor
Familiar Face
Picture of Eye-gor

Posted 19 October 2008 07:22 PM Hide Post
What gave me away? My glib remarks or my stellar intellect? Or was it perhaps my striking, classic good looks?


"Abby someone."
Last edited by LMM
quote:
Not by everyone Skeptik, I have no problem with how you believe or don't believe,j


Perhaps you don't but you're seemingly in the minority.

Sometimes I think my preachers at my church (one of the largest in Muscle Shoals) reads these forums because he often repeats the same things that our resident Sin Nazi espouses.

Heck the fact that you're an Obama supporter is enough to set you apart from the fundies.

It often seems that the anti-fundamentalists and atheists here are anti-God or anti-religion. Some are and some aren't. What we are really rallying against is the Bill Grays of the world - and there are an ass-load of them out there. They are the ones who insist their version of morality is the only one and if you disagree, that makes you evil. If there really were a Satan it is personified in those people.

You rational believers often get caught in the crossfire.

(edit: your -> you're)
Last edited by Cookey
quote:
It often seems that the anti-fundamentalists and atheists here are anti-God or anti-religion. Some are and some aren't. What we are really rallying against is the Bill Grays of the world - and there are an ass-load of them out there. They are the ones who insist their version of morality is the only one and if you disagree, that makes you evil. If there really were a Satan, it is personified in those people.

Amen, bruthah!
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
quote:
They are hated, despised, preached against and occasionally threatened with violence or even killed.

Not by everyone Skeptik, I have no problem with how you believe or don't believe,just as I do not have a problem with any other religion than Christianity of which I participate.
I do hate someone telling me I am stupid for believing in something that cannot be proven. I believe, therefore it is my personal choice. You can chose as you please too.
I don't hate you or wish you ill or hope you change.


Same here, which the exception of hoping he'll change. I do hope others find what I've found, which would mean change, but we all have free will to choose. That's how God wants it & it's fine with me.

Those that feel like LMM and myself will not receive the attention that an "in-your-face" person does because we don't demand it. I think we are actually among the majority of Christians. We are perfectly willing to share the reasons for why we believe, but generally do so within the context of mutual respect.
Atheism... it's not just the theory or "belief" in the absence of a god, but the promulgation of the school of thought that is in actuality anti-god, which is acknowledged by atheists themselves.

If a person is atheist, there ought to be absolutely NO part of their speech which in any way resembles anything spiritual.

For example, the concluding paragraph of the story quoted Marvin Straus, a co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, CO as saying, "A pastor can say to his flock, 'All rise,' and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting. A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing. That's why it's hard to say where we're going as a movement."

Why did an atheist mention "hell?"

From a purely logical perspective, even the acknowledgment of the opposite validates the presence of that which is denied!

It's utterly absurd!

So, atheists ought not ever say "hell," "****," talk about "spirit," "holy," "faith," "God," and an entire host of other words with a basis in spirituality and faith.

However, there is truly more evidence to support Intelligent Design than there is for atheism and evolution from lower life forms.

Consider this: There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence in the archeological record of the geographic strata anywhere to support transitional life forms.

Furthermore, there is overwhelming evidence to support the presence of a world-wide flood, as is recorded in the Genesis account.

Here is a more recent scientific development about which I wrote that it supported Intelligent Design: Fractals and chaos theory.

Here's an excerpt from my most recent blog: Fractals "are those mathematical and artistic models that when each part is examined it is a reflection of itself. It is a repetition to the nth degree. From the macro to the microscopic, it is like itself into infinity. And, it can be expressed in a mathematical formula. Fractals “are reminiscent of natural objects like mountains, clouds, coastlines, blood vessel networks, and even broccoli, in a way that classical shapes like cones and squares can’t match. They have also turned out to be useful in scientific applications ranging from computer graphics and image compression to the structural mechanics of cracks and the fluid dynamics of viscous fingerprinting.” (Consider reading “Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos: With Applications to Physics, Biology, Chemistry, and Engineering” by Steven H. Strogatz, Da Capo Press, ISBN 0-7382-0453-6)
There is structure in what we term chaos. In 1963 MIT meterologist Edward Lorenz demonstrated “that there was structure in the chaos - when plotted in three dimensions.”

So, what do fractals have to do with faith, God, and the message of Christ?

Scientists and researchers discovered that using the mathematical model of fractals, they could predict where blood vessels would branch. (Consider reading ” Nonlinear Oscillations in Biology, Lectures in Applied Math” by Arthur T. Winfree (1979).)

I was amazed, and immediately said,”Wow! It’s a wonderful example of intelligent design!”
"


The Law of Entropy, which is also sometimes called the Second Law of Thermodynamics, states that, naturally left to themselves, things move from a state of orderliness to a state of chaos, confusion and disorder. Even the late atheist Isaac Asimov said, "all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out - all by itself." (ref: Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, p.6)

The Creation account clearly states that God spoke into the chaos and disorderliness and made order. Thus, the absence of order indicates the presence of something other than intelligence, which the mention of something opposite clearly indicates the presence of that which is denied.

Psalm 102:25,26 states that, “Of old hast Thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. They shall perish, but Thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt Thou change them, and they shall be changed.”

Clearly, "they shall perish," refers to that which we already know, that the rotation of the Earth is slowing down, that it's magnetic field is diminishing, and it's mountains, and other features are decaying, eroding, falling apart and breaking down. And even our bodies wear out - as we all well know!

Yet the Psalm was written over 3,000 years ago!

Even the First Law of Thermodynamics clearly supports Intelligent Design. The 1st LoT says in a nutshell that the total quantity of matter and energy remains constant. And remember Einstein's "matter is neither created nor destroyed?"

Energy and matter can be converted into matter and energy, but the total quantity remains the same.

Genesis 2: 1, 2 states that God finished His creation. There is no more. In other words, the total quantity remains the same.

And that's just from science! There are much, much more substantially irrefutable arguments for Intelligent Design from philosophy.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×