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Originally posted by EdEKit:
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Originally posted by miamizsun:
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Originally posted by EdEKit:
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Originally posted by miamizsun:
There is a difference between bartering for goods and services versus money/currency. If you and a friend have goods or services to exchange and both are better off for it, then good for you, trade or barter away. I encourage it.

However, you can't walk into Sears with 1640 pounds of lead, or 2 tons of salt and say: "I'll take that lawn mower." Gold backed bank notes were invented for the ease of convenience when bartering isn't an option. If you have salt and lead and Sears doesn't need the lead or salt. You trade for something they do need or will accept. Like a bank note backed by gold (universally desired) It is when the banker prints more notes (to loan) than he has gold on demand that we run into a problem, you and I call it counterfeiting, the fed bankers, who have your buddies in DC in their pocket cal it fractional reserve banking. The result is that you have money, printed right out of thin air, easy to manipulate, backed by faith of the counterfeiters (we'll just print more money if we need it) versus sound money backed by a hard asset recognized and desired by the entire planet. Research the Federal Reserve, the gold standard, and why it was abandoned and you'll see. When government wants to finance something it is a h3ll of a lot easier to have the fed "just print the money" and/or borrow it, than to raise taxes. This makes it easier for a politician's re-election as well. Who gets elected on a tax increase platform? Nobody, that's who.

I hope this helps folks understand....

Regards, miamizsun
You can't walk into sears with four ounces of gold and walk out with a riding mower either.


Which would be easier to carry? Four ounces of gold or several tons of salt? And which could be converted into cash easier? Which has the potential for greater increase in value? I don't see people storing salt or lead in safe deposit boxes? How much salt is in Fort Knox? Or valuing salt or lead like gold either....

How much salt do you have in your portfolio? And how's that working out for you?

When fiat currency, backed by the full faith and credit of people like Bush collapses, you can have the salt, and the green back, the lira or the peso, I'll take the gold and precious metals....

See "economic hit men" or "petro-dollar warfare" for an idea of how propped up our dollar is....
The easiest to carry is several sheets of paper. That is why we have MONEY.
Actually Miami, when salt was used for currency, and when peppercorns were used, they were rare, and desired. That is what makes a currency valuable.

What the "gold standard" requires, beyond all else, is a stable value for Gold. The value of Gold is NOT stable. The value of a dollar is not stable either.
Name a commodity, any commodity that does not vary in value according to supply and demand.
Same is true of currencies. A few years ago I sold a few Solver Dollars for eleven dollars each. I got a dollar ten for silver dimes. The buyer knew that he could recover the silver from the coins, and sell it for more than he paid me for the coins. So did I. It was a "fair exchange." I can buy about one third of a gallon of gasoline for one dollar. That will move me, and my motorcycle about 12 miles. To ride a bus 12 miles costs me one and a quarter dollars. The dollar has value. It's value is not based on how many forks I can make from it, I can't make ANY forks. It's value is based on how many forks I can exchange it for.

As far as the discussion of the value of a dollar, and what determines it, I contend that its value is based on the value produced by the economy of the United States. The value of a dollar is based on the productivity of the American worker, and productivity is measured in dollars. When it is measured in ounces of gold, an hours work will be worth about 1/40th of an ounce of gold.

So, I think it is ridiculous to demand a gold standard. Unless yu really want to give more monetary power to gold miners and less to yourself.
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Originally posted by DeepFat:
How did I miss this thread until now? This is fun!

Ed, you started this discussion with a mention of Trickle Down Economics. About 55% of Americans are invested in the stock market, either directly or indirectly. The profits go straight to the neighborhood.

Miamaz, you are correct about fiat currency. The collapse of any fiat currency, including ours, is inevitable. It's just a matter of time.

DF
Deep Fat, So what? Reducing the taxes paid by the folks who own 80% of the stock in American Companies doesn't help the rest of the stockholders. Ask Warren Buffet.
I read the replies, and tried to make sense of them and reply to them. I felt like I had failed. I left the confused remarks on the thread, and closed it up to think about what I had read.

Finally it dawned on me, I am arguing with people who don't get it. They remind me of the nice lady who got a flat tire. Someone came walking along and changed the tire for her. She thanked them profusely, and drove off, never even thinking to offer a ride to that pedestrian who was going the same way she was.

It is like finding someone bleeding from a cut hand, and saying you ought to put a band aid on that. And walking on. Well, thanks for the advice, any idea where I can get a band aid?
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Originally posted by NashBama:
For someone to understand a new concept means that they have to accept the fact that they could be wrong. I don't think it's Miami who is having the problem understanding here.
It is me Nash, and I know it. There is just to much crap about how money is worthless, and the evidence of my whole life says it is not worthless, and will not be worthless as long as we don't communize. In communism, The workers pretend to produce, and the government pretends to pay them, but there is nothing to buy. As long as I can put three dollars on a counter and get a quart of milk or a couple of loaves of bread, I am not going to claim MY MONEY IS WORTHLESS.
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It is me Nash, and I know it. There is just to much crap about how money is worthless, and the evidence of my whole life says it is not worthless, and will not be worthless as long as we don't communize. In communism, The workers pretend to produce, and the government pretends to pay them, but there is nothing to buy. As long as I can put three dollars on a counter and get a quart of milk or a couple of loaves of bread, I am not going to claim MY MONEY IS WORTHLESS.


No one is talking about communism, stay on track here.

When you buy that milk, what are you trading for it? At one time, the dollar was backed by gold. Basicly, you were trading a certificate for gold. What is the dollar a certificate for now? Has it gone back to peppercorns?

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