YOU can do YOUR part

quote:

Help defend and save OBAMACARE!

No thank you. I'd rather run my weiner through a meat grinder.

I don't think so. I will pass on that one.

beternU... why don't you just do your part. If you are so concerned about all of the folks who are struggling, give them your money to pay their expenses. See, I don't think you really care about those people, you care about the agenda that King Barry and his crew are pushing. If American healthcare is so bad, then why do folks rush here for it from countries who already have systems like the one you are promoting?
You are clueless on this. Blindly following your King Barry with zero true understanding of what his job killing, private sector killing "health care" agenda is all about. Instead of wanting to destroy our economy with this junk, why don't ya'll just move to a region where the economy has already been destroyed by it?

Nice post Peter. I'm glad you came over from the sports forum. I almost said War Eagle baby.

Are there some good things about obamacare? possibly. Are there tax increases? Yes. I have a problem supporting anything with a tax increase. The top tax rate is either 28 or 35 percent on the federal level. If a person makes one million dollars that is 280 to 350 thousand dollars in taxes. My question is when is enough enough? Do we let the feds keep taxing until the person that figures out how to get rich is as poor as the counterperson at Mickey d's? How long before the wealthy say fu5k it and take their money and leave?

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
Nice post Peter. I'm glad you came over from the sports forum. I almost said War Eagle baby.

Now let's not get carried away.

quote:

How long before the wealthy say fu5k it and take their money and leave?

Not long, they're doing it all the time now.

Dont join in the ranting. DemoCare will is not at risk of repeal. The Repub vote in the House is merely symbolic. Maybe if the Repubs had a plan for ending additional budget deficits caused by health care, they could get some traction in the Senate. The Repubs had 6 years of full control of the White House and Congress and their efforts produced Medicare Part D, which will add $100billion to the fedgov deficit in 2011.

I get my health insurance through my job. There is a strong possibility I'll be laid off soon. That means I'll lose my health insurance and because my wife has pre-existing conditions, it will be expensive to buy it ourselves.

So here is my challenge to those in favor of Obama-care. Buy our insurance for us.

With Obama-care, you'll be doing it anyway but the IRS will be a middle man. So why not cut out the middle man and just give me a check directly?

The ideal option for us would be for the government to get out of it, allow private insurance companies compete for the business, and we'll get a better rate.

So if you're in favor of free health care and the haves giving to the have nots, I appreciate your support and I'll be watching the mailbox for your first payment.

quote:

Dont join in the ranting. DemoCare will is not at risk of repeal. The Repub vote in the House is merely symbolic. Maybe if the Repubs had a plan for ending additional budget deficits caused by health care, they could get some traction in the Senate. The Repubs had 6 years of full control of the White House and Congress and their efforts produced Medicare Part D, which will add $100billion to the fedgov deficit in 2011.

Bingo, it seems a liberal is a liberal is a liberal, whether they have an r or a d by their name. A liberal idea is a bad idea.

quote:

My question is when is enough enough?

Hello, I can't hear you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NashBama:
I get my health insurance through my job. There is a strong possibility I'll be laid off soon. That means I'll lose my health insurance and because my wife has pre-existing conditions, it will be expensive to buy it ourselves.



Do you actually know that under the Health insurance reform act you will be able to buy insurance although you have a pre-existing condition? Of course you do. Don't like the price? Tell it to the republicans! The one thing that would have negated all the input and hike in rates by insurance companies is a PUBLIC OPTION but the rethugliteacons and democrats in thug clothing helped to kill that, along with the spin machine known as Fixed News and the lies and distortions of their spokespersons such as Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.

Good old democrapic doublespeak from the king of doublespeak:
*************************************************
ABC News' Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller report:

At a rally in Holmdel, New Jersey, today, President Obama continued making a promise about health care reform that he has acknowledged isn’t literally true.

“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”

But last month, as the president acknowledged during a press conference, he doesn’t literally mean that you are guaranteed to be able to keep your health care plan, and your doctor, if and when health care reform passes.

“When I say ‘If you have your plan and you like it,… or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans,’” the president said after we asked him about this, “what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform.”

Importantly, the government might create circumstances – say, a public health care option that is less expensive since profit is not a concern and overhead is lower – where you might find your business forcing you into that public plan.

Pressed by Diane Sawyer in an interview that same day, the president acknowledged this, saying, “I can't pass a law that says, 'I'm sorry, employers, you can never make changes to the health care plans that you provide your employees.' What I can say is that the government is not going to force you to, your employer or you to join a government plan, for example. If you're happy with it, and your employer's happy with it, keep it."

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:
I get my health insurance through my job. There is a strong possibility I'll be laid off soon. That means I'll lose my health insurance and because my wife has pre-existing conditions, it will be expensive to buy it ourselves.

So here is my challenge to those in favor of Obama-care. Buy our insurance for us.

With Obama-care, you'll be doing it anyway but the IRS will be a middle man. So why not cut out the middle man and just give me a check directly?

The ideal option for us would be for the government to get out of it, allow private insurance companies compete for the business, and we'll get a better rate.

So if you're in favor of free health care and the haves giving to the have nots, I appreciate your support and I'll be watching the mailbox for your first payment.

Nash, I am sorry, but I used to think you were somewhat intelligent, but this post is disappointing to me- it just shows complete ignorance on your part. I hope it is ignorance, which can be fixed, and not stupid which cannot.

Nobody ever said health care would be free. If you got that distortion, it must have come from Fox or some of the idiots like Palin, because even the President said (and I quote), "Nobody ever said it would be free".
As it now stands, with the current health insurance bill you will be able to buy insurance even with your wife's pre-existing condition. Before the bill went into effect, you would probably not been able to get insurance at any price.
Clinton actually DID do something about insurance that may help you, he got it fixed where you can keep your existing insurance for a period of time, although you may (probably will) have to bear the entire cost. Called COBRA.
Again, nobody said it would be free, or even cheap. I was able to keep my insurance after I retired and it cost a bundle, about $1150 per month right now, so if you have to pay for your insurance, you will quickly become sensitive to what is happening to health insurance, something you probably didn't pay much attention to before.
Good luck , by the way, on your job.
I hope you inform yourself better in the future.

I'm sorry seaweed but the democrats most certainly did tout it as being FREE. Listen to any democrat to this day and they will say obama got them free healthcare. The Republicans were the ones trying to tell people it would not/could not be free. I think you know that all the democrats are doing is that famous backtracking and spinning. ALL I heard from dems from day one was "free healthcare"!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said when they started that mess there was no such thing as free and we taxpayers would end up paying through the nose for another government program that fails miserably. Try to talk sense to democrats and all you get is the standard "Republicans hate the poor" argument. That argument is not only a lie, but is getting as old and worn out as the race card.

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
Nice post Peter. I'm glad you came over from the sports forum. I almost said War Eagle baby.

Haha!! Nice!! WAR EAGLE! It fits anywhere. lol

Nash's post tells the story perfectly!!!

How moronic to desire a middle man to choose how much money to take from you without your control, then what to do with YOUR MONEY. It makes zero sense whatsoever. Great post Nash, and I hope everything works out for you!

Once again, how much taxe are enough? PLEASE try to answer without help from Jon Stewart.

quote:

Once again, how much taxes are enough?

That, to me, is the wrong question.

Income taxes, specifically, are nothing more than taking the fruits of a person's labor. Ethically, that's a bad thing. However, the people in general seem to believe otherwise. Once you accept the premise that it's ok to take the fruits of another person's labor, the ethical debate, or the debate of "how much is enough," becomes a mute point. At that point, your simply trying to determine the most equitable and efficient means of taxation. Once you're trying to determine that, there is such a thing as enough or not enough. The left will always scream "fair share," while the right will always complain "too much," but these are really ethical positions. If you're going to approach taxation from an ethical viewpoint, I would suggest that stealing is wrong regardless of the percentage. If you're going to accept some amount of theft as being necessary, you have to be prepared for the economic reality that there will be times when more theft is the most economically viable course of action.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
beternU... why don't you just do your part. If you are so concerned about all of the folks who are struggling, give them your money to pay their expenses. See, I don't think you really care about those people, you care about the agenda that King Barry and his crew are pushing. If American healthcare is so bad, then why do folks rush here for it from countries who already have systems like the one you are promoting?
You are clueless on this. Blindly following your King Barry with zero true understanding of what his job killing, private sector killing "health care" agenda is all about. Instead of wanting to destroy our economy with this junk, why don't ya'll just move to a region where the economy has already been destroyed by it?

The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
beternU... why don't you just do your part. If you are so concerned about all of the folks who are struggling, give them your money to pay their expenses. See, I don't think you really care about those people, you care about the agenda that King Barry and his crew are pushing. If American healthcare is so bad, then why do folks rush here for it from countries who already have systems like the one you are promoting?
You are clueless on this. Blindly following your King Barry with zero true understanding of what his job killing, private sector killing "health care" agenda is all about. Instead of wanting to destroy our economy with this junk, why don't ya'll just move to a region where the economy has already been destroyed by it?

The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

I believe that would be 230 Billion (with a B)



Boehner tearfully remarked on TV today that he would like for his children to grow up in the same country he did. Hell, he's what, 61 years old, about my age so he came of age during the '60s and early '70s. He wants to take our country back to Jim Crow, Vietnam, riots in the streets ?
OK, there was some good as well, burned bras and weed to name a couple.
During that "wonderful" era, that he wants to take us back to, was run mostly by Democrats, with the most corrupt (Republican) politician in our country's history thrown in for good measure.
Oh well, just some thoughts here a little after midnight.

Very good points made here by several progressive posters, BUT this is really a non-issue since although it is a no-brainer that No-Boehner would push for repeal of the healthcare bill as top of the agenda instead of trying to create jobs (as promised) even if this gets passed the house it will NEVER pass the senate and in no way will be signed into law. Even acknowledging this just plays into rethugliteacon grandstanding. (Had to get the name in there somehow! )

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I'm sorry seaweed but the democrats most certainly did tout it as being FREE. Listen to any democrat to this day and they will say obama got them free healthcare. The Republicans were the ones trying to tell people it would not/could not be free. I think you know that all the democrats are doing is that famous backtracking and spinning. ALL I heard from dems from day one was "free healthcare"!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said when they started that mess there was no such thing as free and we taxpayers would end up paying through the nose for another government program that fails miserably. Try to talk sense to democrats and all you get is the standard "Republicans hate the poor" argument. That argument is not only a lie, but is getting as old and worn out as the race card.

Since I don't listen to the lies on Fox, I don't have any idea who or what you may have heard, but for those of us who live in the reality based universe, and get our news from real news stations, I never ever heard any Democrat say anything about health care being free. I DID actually read a bunch of crap from Obama haters here on the forums complaining about giving away "free" health insurance, but no one that had any idea of reality.
The idea of the bill in question was to help control the cost of health insurance, and to bring the cost of Medicare down (as beternu notes by some $230 Billion dollars) as well as to force insurance companies to honor their commitments by not kicking people off when they got sick, or because the lifelong cost exceeded some ammount.
What is most egregious to the haters of this bill tho, is the requirement that insurance companies will have to pay out at least 85% of their premiums in health care, thereby limiting their profits to a paltry 15%.
I never heard anyone (with any intelligence) ever say this would be free and as I stated before, the President himself stated so.
All else is lies, dis-information , wrong information spread by powerful lobbyist to influence the weak-minded who listen to them.
The purpose of course is to protect the enormous profits the insurance industry has been enjoying at the expense of their customers. They have of course used the current state of the economy , which has people worried , and naturally protective to , well , lets just tell it like it really is and not use any code words, to prevent any help of Black people (who are precieved as the primary users of the social safety net by many working Whites). It is raciest , everybody knows it, so we might as well call it what it really is.

quote:

All else is lies, dis-information , wrong information

From the left of course. How much tax is too much tax? If progressives really cared about what is right they would be supporting a flat tax or fair tax. Instead they push the lie that the rich don't pay their fair share. Pass tax reform where everyone pays the same percentage.

quote:

Originally posted by rocky:
BUT this is really a non-issue since although it is a no-brainer that No-Boehner... (Had to get the name in there somehow! )

Sure you did. What are you, 8?

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

Huffington post hahaha what a joke.
Even if it were true, 230 million compared to the billions Ocrappa Care will cost us. Hmm let me do the math here...

Why has my doctor visit gone up?
Ocrappa Care

Why has my Emergency room gone up 70% per visit?
Ocrappa Care

Why cannot I get the meds that work without paying over $300 when I used to pay $20?
Ocrappa Care

It is interesting how everything has gone up since the implementation of Ocrappa Care in the medical field.

quote:

Originally posted by tada:

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

Huffington post hahaha what a joke.
Even if it were true, 230 million compared to the billions Ocrappa Care will cost us. Hmm let me do the math here...

Why has my doctor visit gone up?
Ocrappa Care

Why has my Emergency room gone up 70% per visit?
Ocrappa Care

Why cannot I get the meds that work without paying over $300 when I used to pay $20?
Ocrappa Care

It is interesting how everything has gone up since the implementation of Ocrappa Care in the medical field.

I see you are on here ferrelj, let me ask you something. Is THIS an example of one of the posters who you refer to that question MY intelligence when it come to post and opinions expressed on this forum???????? Remember, you are residing in a glass house of rethugliteacons!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by tada:

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

Huffington post hahaha what a joke.
Even if it were true, 230 million compared to the billions Ocrappa Care will cost us. Hmm let me do the math here...

Why has my doctor visit gone up?
Ocrappa Care

Why has my Emergency room gone up 70% per visit?
Ocrappa Care

Why cannot I get the meds that work without paying over $300 when I used to pay $20?
Ocrappa Care

It is interesting how everything has gone up since the implementation of Ocrappa Care in the medical field.

Impossible. The relevant portions of DemoCare dont start until 2014. Your insurance company had to charge more money to pay for annual cost increases.

The Republicans do not have the numbers to repeal anything. There are portions of the healthcare legislation which are good, but a majority of it is certainly bad, and has already started to cause a ripple effect in business management.
They may never repeal it, BUT I think they can effectively withhold money for certain parts of it, and without funding those portions will cease to exist, and hopefully eventually die off.
The rise in premiums is due to the pre-existing clause that was implemented. Insurance companies know that people can now just come in and buy a premium policy when they find out they have an illness. Companies will never profit in that environment, and without a profit there is no incentive to exist. I do not disagree with the pre-existing clause, but it is not limited enough in its scope and will basically insure that those who do not want to pay a premium until it is necessary will use that to their advantage.

quote:

Originally posted by JuanHunt:

quote:

Originally posted by tada:

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
The neutral Congressional Budget office has stated that killing Obamacare will result in adding $230 million to the deficit. Is the CBO also clueless?

Boehner and the wingers quote the CBO when its conclusions support their agenda, but when the CBO's findings are contrary to what the GOP wants, then Boehner and the wingers reject it.

Opportunistic scheming weasels, they are--and YOU are duped by them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...eficit_n_805192.html

Huffington post hahaha what a joke.
Even if it were true, 230 million compared to the billions Ocrappa Care will cost us. Hmm let me do the math here...

Why has my doctor visit gone up?
Ocrappa Care

Why has my Emergency room gone up 70% per visit?
Ocrappa Care

Why cannot I get the meds that work without paying over $300 when I used to pay $20?
Ocrappa Care

It is interesting how everything has gone up since the implementation of Ocrappa Care in the medical field.

Impossible. The relevant portions of DemoCare dont start until 2014. Your insurance company had to charge more money to pay for annual cost increases.

The costs of insurance, medication, and medical services are already going up because of the Obama care provisions taking place now and in the future. The cost increases now are only the beginning. Wait until the doctor shortage hits us in a few years.

Hello, how much taxation is enough? Where does it stop? Will increasing the taxes on the rich make the poor rich? There is a 5% tax increase the health care bill, from the mouth of the great one himself. Just answer my question.

Why would I help save something that is ALREADY costing me more money? Who knows what it's going to wind up costing us. Any legislation that the main proponents say has to be passed before we can know what's in it is bad legislation. It tells me there are things in that stack of papers they, the Dems, did NOT want known prior to the vote. I just can't support something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by tada:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by beternU:

Huffington post hahaha what a joke.
Even if it were true, 230 million compared to the billions Ocrappa Care will cost us. Hmm let me do the math here...

Why has my doctor visit gone up?
Ocrappa Care

Why has my Emergency room gone up 70% per visit?
Ocrappa Care

Why cannot I get the meds that work without paying over $300 when I used to pay $20?
Ocrappa Care

It is interesting how everything has gone up since the implementation of Ocrappa Care in the medical field.

I hope your health improves. What parts of the health insurance reform that are currently applying just went into affect 7 days ago, and if all that you speak of has really happened to you, you are one sick person. Good luck on recovery !

quote:

Originally posted by mad American:
Hello, how much taxation is enough? Where does it stop? Will increasing the taxes on the rich make the poor rich? There is a 5% tax increase the health care bill, from the mouth of the great one himself. Just answer my question.

I can't understand how this question relates to this topic. Your taxes are the least they have been in your entire working life, yet you complain.
If you wish to start another topic on taxes, then this question will be better debated there.
However, I will make an attempt to answer this mis-placed question. The answer is , of course, enough to cover the cost of the government, and please keep in mind that over 65% of that cost goes to the Pentagon , so that being the biggest chunk, I would suggest you find out why we are spending so much there. Remember , before Bush2 took over with his Republican Congress, we actually had a surplus for which we could have used to pay down the debt. Bush decided to spend it on tax breaks which would have been a good thing had we not owed anything, and could have done it without borrowing. Now that he kicked the can down the road, we must make a choice- (actually we should make the choice, but probably won't) , do we "man up" and pay for our past sins, or do we kick that can on down the road to future generations.

quote:

Remember , before Bush2 took over with his Republican Congress, we actually had a surplus for which we could have used to pay down the debt

There has never been a surplus. That was all "smoke and mirrors".

Q:

During the Clinton administration was the federal budget balanced? Was the federal deficit erased?

A:

Yes to both questions, whether you count Social Security or not.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfa...was_the_federal.html

quote:

Originally posted by mad American:
Hello, how much taxation is enough? Where does it stop? Will increasing the taxes on the rich make the poor rich? There is a 5% tax increase the health care bill, from the mouth of the great one himself. Just answer my question.

They don't want to answer your question mad... because the answer is either... we already are taxed too much...orrrrr... Why are we stuck where we are?? Raise taxes by 10% across the board... HELL, raise'em 30% across the board!! If taxing is the solution in the eyes of the socialist, then push to raise'em once a quarter until the mean ol rich folks pay 70% income tax.

I answered the "how much is enough" question. Short answer - if taxation is ethically wrong, 1% is too much. If you think some amount of taxation is a necessary role of government, then "enough" is the amount at which the government is run in the most optimal manner. What is the most optimal manner? That's subject to interpretation.

quote:

I can't understand how this question relates to this topic

Because under obamacare taxes will go up. Both dolemite and Pete4r are right.