You have murdered someone
You have committed adultery
You live a lifestyle of a prostitute
You married a heathen
You helped kill other Christians
You are very wise but foolish
You preached for 120 years with no converts
You had little faith
You spent most of your life in prison
You are wild at heart and
You lied to a king.
Original Post
ngt,

You might be a Muslim, an atheist, a Zoroastrian, a Thorian, a Buddhist, or any other sort of person and have done those things.

You see, it really doesn't matter. Religion is a matter of geography, usually. Some people get over it, but they remain people.

DF
Hi NGT,

There is only one thing I would change. I would have the title say: "You CAN BE a Christian EVEN if....."

And, that would include Deep's list also.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
Bill that is correct but isn't it amazing who God chooses to be His servants. Not at all what most churches teach. I honestly wonder if the churches of today would even allow the servants of the bible to even enter the church door.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
As a matter of policy, I don't. DF

SOMEONE GOT CONFUSED -- OR IS RESPONDING ON THE WRONG DISCUSSION!

Attachments

Images (1)
quote:
Originally posted by ngt2293:
I honestly wonder if the churches of today would even allow the servants of the bible to even enter the church door.


While the clergy instructs their flocks to attend church regularly, many are not welcome in the eyes of God. Leviticus 21:16-23 provides a list of those who must stay away from God's altar. Apparently, God does not like people who have a blemish, are blind, or lame, or flat nosed, have a broken foot or broken hand; have an eye sore or a scab; or are dwarfs.

From Deuteronomy 23:1, 2 we find that, "He that is wounded in the stones [testicles], or hath his privy member [penis] cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord." Are inspections required at the church door? Bastards are not allowed in either, "even to his tenth generation."
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by ngt2293:
I honestly wonder if the churches of today would even allow the servants of the bible to even enter the church door.


While the clergy instructs their flocks to attend church regularly, many are not welcome in the eyes of God. Leviticus 21:16-23 provides a list of those who must stay away from God's altar. Apparently, God does not like people who have a blemish, are blind, or lame, or flat nosed, have a broken foot or broken hand; have an eye sore or a scab; or are dwarfs.

From Deuteronomy 23:1, 2 we find that, "He that is wounded in the stones [testicles], or hath his privy member [penis] cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord." Are inspections required at the church door? Bastards are not allowed in either, "even to his tenth generation."


David, none of those apply to the Christian church. If you have problems with those verses, you should take it up with people of the Jewish faith.

You're forgetting who Christ ministered to quite often. The handicapped, afflicted, and the unwanted.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
David, none of those apply to the Christian church.


I was not aware that the Christian faith abandoned the Old Testament, Nash. I can't say I blame 'em but when did that happen?
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
David, none of those apply to the Christian church.


I was not aware that the Christian faith abandoned the Old Testament, Nash. I can't say I blame 'em but when did that happen?


It's not abandoned as you put it, it's not followed as law. It's the history of Christianity, providing the lineage and prophecy of Christ.
Nash, reckon how many times a person needs an extremely simple concept explained to them before they stop spewing inaccuracies? That has to be...oh, I don't know...the 50th time perhaps? Wink

You might be a bitter person if you are obsessed with criticizing Christians. Big Grin

Y'all all have a magnificent day! (((big fat hug)))
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
David, none of those apply to the Christian church.


I was not aware that the Christian faith abandoned the Old Testament, Nash. I can't say I blame 'em but when did that happen?


It's not abandoned as you put it, it's not followed as law. It's the history of Christianity, providing the lineage and prophecy of Christ.


Ahh, so you disagree with the Baptist and CoC churches who preach every sunday from all the books of the OT. They certainly seems to thing that the 10 Commandments are still important. Genesis is, of course, the literal truth to them (and was to you a short time ago). Most Christisns consider the Holy book as the inerrant word of God.

So you are dumping all that, Nash? Be careful, the Bloviator is awaiting to pass judgment upon you.
Nash,

We all know quite well that the scribes who wrote of Jesus took quite a few liberties to ensure that he fulfilled prophecies. The tortured lineage of Mary, at best a fiction, was included to establish JC's bona fides.


Now in other news. The current issue of SKEPTIC magazine has, as it's thematic article, an unflattering critique of the movie Zeitgeist. You know the one, the one that explains christianity in terms of astrology. It's written by Tim Callahan, a skeptical but honest bible scholar. Point for you.

DF
Too bad we can't read the article without buying the magazine.

I noticed it also has a global warming hysteria forum. Perhaps you should get Skep to read that.

He needs help! Wink
"You're forgetting who Christ ministered to quite often. The handicapped, afflicted, and the unwanted."--Nash.

I am wll aware that Christ, with great fanfare, allegedy put on some pretty good magic shows. I am not aware that he actually ministered to the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted. Disease, physical and mental handicaps, and intolerance were as prevalent during and after Christ's alleged ministering as before.

"David, none of those apply to the Christian church. If you have problems with those verses, you should take it up with people of the Jewish faith."

Are we to assume that God suddenly changed his mind about who was to appear before him? This is impossible. I have it on inerrant authority that he wouldn't change his intolerance for the blind, dwarfs, etc. "For I am the Lord, I change not;"
L,

If you want to read it, buy the magazine. It won't kill you.

See, I subscribe to SKEPTIC. Perhaps I should buy the Sheffield Library a subscription.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
L,

If you want to read it, buy the magazine. It won't kill you.

See, I subscribe to SKEPTIC. Perhaps I should buy the Sheffield Library a subscription.

DF


If I can find it in redneckville, I will. You forget DF, this is the backwards world here.
quote:
Nash,

We all know quite well that the scribes who wrote of Jesus took quite a few liberties to ensure that he fulfilled prophecies. The tortured lineage of Mary, at best a fiction, was included to establish JC's bona fides.


Quite an extraordinary claim. Where is your proof?
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
David, none of those apply to the Christian church.


I was not aware that the Christian faith abandoned the Old Testament, Nash. I can't say I blame 'em but when did that happen?


It's not abandoned as you put it, it's not followed as law. It's the history of Christianity, providing the lineage and prophecy of Christ.


Ahh, so you disagree with the Baptist and CoC churches who preach every sunday from all the books of the OT. They certainly seems to thing that the 10 Commandments are still important. Genesis is, of course, the literal truth to them (and was to you a short time ago). Most Christisns consider the Holy book as the inerrant word of God.

So you are dumping all that, Nash? Be careful, the Bloviator is awaiting to pass judgment upon you.


Christ reaffirmed the 10 Commandments, not only that but he combined them all into two very simple ones. That's why they are still important, Christ reaffirmed them.

I'm not Baptist or CoC, I don't care what they do. However, there is a difference between teaching from the OT and putting those laws into effect. As Joy said, this has been explained to you in depth many, many times.
quote:
I am wll aware that Christ, with great fanfare, allegedy put on some pretty good magic shows. I am not aware that he actually ministered to the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted.


You should try reading the New Testament sometime then, instead of trying to dig up ugly verses to attack Christianity with from the Old Testament.
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
[QUOTE]I am well aware that Christ, with great fanfare, allegedy put on some pretty good magic shows. I am not aware that he actually ministered to the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted.


quote:
You should try reading the New Testament sometime then, instead of trying to dig up ugly verses to attack Christianity with from the Old Testament.


Nash, I have read the NT over and over. And believe me, it is replete with ugly verses. I will be glad to provide you with a very ugly list if you would like. Then you can shout, "You hate Jesus."

In the meantime why don't you address the issue?
Other than in isolated incidents of grandstanding in front of a crowd, show me where Christ demonstrated a genuine concern for the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted. If he had the power to cure, heal and institute tolerance for a select few, why didn't he cure diseases, e.g., leprosy, feed the poor (not just a wedding party) and bring brotherly love to the world?
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Christ reaffirmed the 10 Commandments,


Here are a few Commandments. I'm curious if Jesus reaffirmed ALL of them or just some?

Exodus says to "Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles."

I'm curious how you abided by that commandment without breaking any property laws?

What about For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; Have you ever played a game of baseball or drank a beer on Sunday (or Saturday)? I sure hope not.

You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.

I don't even know what this one is, Nash. But do you observe it? I sure hopes so, man. The price for breaking a commandment is . . . Well, kinda rough.

you shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.

So what do you sacrifice in the morning of the passover?

This one is a little strange: You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

What do you make of that one, Nash?

The "graven images" C'ment says, You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

So do you support this "3rd and 4th generation" punishment policy? I can see perhaps one or two generations but people who piss me off got what's coming to them. But 4th generation? Seriously?
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
[QUOTE]I am well aware that Christ, with great fanfare, allegedy put on some pretty good magic shows. I am not aware that he actually ministered to the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted.


quote:
You should try reading the New Testament sometime then, instead of trying to dig up ugly verses to attack Christianity with from the Old Testament.


Nash, I have read the NT over and over. And believe me, it is replete with ugly verses. I will be glad to provide you with a very ugly list if you would like. Then you can shout, "You hate Jesus."

In the meantime why don't you address the issue?
Other than in isolated incidents of grandstanding in front of a crowd, show me where Christ demonstrated a genuine concern for the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted. If he had the power to cure, heal and institute tolerance for a select few, why didn't he cure diseases, e.g., leprosy, feed the poor (not just a wedding party) and bring brotherly love to the world?


Because he wanted his followers to do those things. And yes I will admit as his follower I fail at that but that's my fault not his.
I once heard a great sermon concerning the difference between rules and Commandments. Again, Bill Gray, will you comment on this?
Hi David,

You tell us, "Other than in isolated incidents of grandstanding in front of a crowd, show me where Christ demonstrated a genuine concern for the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted. If he had the power to cure, heal and institute tolerance for a select few, why didn't he cure diseases, e.g., leprosy, feed the poor (not just a wedding party) and bring brotherly love to the world?"

On the outskirts of Jerusalem, on a tiny hill named Calvary or, by some, known as Golgotha -- He died so that you, I, and all the people ever born on earth, can have the opportunity to be spiritually saved and live eternally with God. Now, I am not sure about your standards; but, when a man will die just for me -- I do consider that genuine concern.

True, He does not always heal those with physical infirmities; but, He will always heal them spiritually -- if they want to be healed.

God will use our illnesses and hardships often to bring about a greater good. Recently, I have been reading the book "You Mean The Bible Teaches That..." by Charles Caldwell Ryrie. In the book, the author gives us several examples of an affliction actually being a blessing in disguise. In the New Testament, John 9, we read the story of Jesus healing the blind man -- and over the centuries, God has been glorified and many have been healed, spiritually and physically, because of this man's infirmity and the testimony of his healing by Jesus Christ.

The author gives a more recent example of blessings coming from a physical affliction. On page 91, the author tells of a child who was born retarded. In "You Mean The Bible Teaches That..." by Charles Caldwell Ryrie, we read:

The point is simply this: a defective child may be the direct gift of God to a family as an instrument for the greater glory of God. An amazing present-day illustration of this is related in the book "Melissa Comes Home." A retarded child born into the Krentel home became the means of leading her parents to establish a home for such children, involving many miracles from the Lord and blessing to many families. And as the story has become more widely known, God has been more widely glorified, all because of the gift of a retarded child to a believing family.

Now, David, I realize that you will attempt to turn these examples upside down and claim that God just wants to be glorified and worshiped. Well, in a sense, you are right. The eternal sovereign God does want to be glorified and worshiped -- but, have you ever wondered why? When God is glorified, as in these two examples -- many, many people learn of what He has brought about, the events which glorified Him -- and, because of these, they seek salvation in Him. Through His glorification; millions, possibly billions, have been spiritually reborn and have gained eternal life with God. How can that be a bad thing?

David, you claim to have read the Bible many times. Yet, you, in your antagonistic secular/atheist frame of mind, were only reading words written on paper -- and never seeing beyond that. You have never opened your heart and your mind at the same time; to see beyond the ink and paper. And, I suspect the reason is the same as with most other secularists and atheists -- you are afraid of having to be held accountable to anyone other than yourself. You live in your little secular cocoon; dwelling in your own supposed intelligence -- afraid to open your heart and your mind to anyone or anything beyond that cocoon.

One day, David, whether you want to accept it now or not -- you will stand before God, Jesus Christ, and have to answer for your life on earth. And, your foolish supposition, "What if I don't want to be there?" -- will have no credence, no effect. You WILL be there, in judgment. Today, you have a choice of which judgment you will experience: Either the Bema Seat Judgment where all believers will stand before Jesus Christ to attain their rewards, their blessings, in heaven. Or, the Great White Throne Judgment -- a judgment of ALL non-believers (and, yes, David, that does mean you, in your present spiritual condition -- unless you do a 180 degree turn and follow Him) to eternal life with Satan in hell. The good news, David, is that you still have time. Until you breathe that last breath; you still have time to turn to Him for salvation.

David, you WILL be held accountable to Him -- either today -- or then. You get to choose when and where; but, my Friend, do it soon for none of us know when that last breath will occur.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
"One day, David, whether you want to accept it now or not -- you will stand before God, Jesus Christ, and have to answer for your life on earth."

And boy, will I give them an earfull. They have done tremendous mental and physical damage by butting into the affairs of men. Is is as dispicable as Hitler butting into the affairs of the German people.

Bill, don't you get tired of making excuses for Christ's ineptitude as a teacher? Stop blaiming it on humankind. The guy had very little to say that was worthwhile, and he had no teaching skills.
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Christ reaffirmed the 10 Commandments,


Here are a few Commandments. I'm curious if Jesus reaffirmed ALL of them or just some?

Exodus says to "Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles."

I'm curious how you abided by that commandment without breaking any property laws?

What about For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; Have you ever played a game of baseball or drank a beer on Sunday (or Saturday)? I sure hope not.

You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.

I don't even know what this one is, Nash. But do you observe it? I sure hopes so, man. The price for breaking a commandment is . . . Well, kinda rough.

you shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.

So what do you sacrifice in the morning of the passover?

This one is a little strange: You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

What do you make of that one, Nash?

The "graven images" C'ment says, You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

So do you support this "3rd and 4th generation" punishment policy? I can see perhaps one or two generations but people who piss me off got what's coming to them. But 4th generation? Seriously?


Those are not commandments except for the last one. Since I've already addressed why Christians do not follow those old laws many times, I won't repeat myself again.

As for the last one, not worshiping idols, Jesus summed it up by saying "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment."

It's also basic Christianity that Christ died in our place. That answers your question about the punishment of generations as mentioned in the OT.

Again, all of this has been explained many times over. You're trying to disprove theology with theology, isn't that circular reasoning?
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
[QUOTE]I am well aware that Christ, with great fanfare, allegedy put on some pretty good magic shows. I am not aware that he actually ministered to the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted.


quote:
You should try reading the New Testament sometime then, instead of trying to dig up ugly verses to attack Christianity with from the Old Testament.


Nash, I have read the NT over and over. And believe me, it is replete with ugly verses. I will be glad to provide you with a very ugly list if you would like. Then you can shout, "You hate Jesus."

In the meantime why don't you address the issue?
Other than in isolated incidents of grandstanding in front of a crowd, show me where Christ demonstrated a genuine concern for the handicapped, afflicted and unwanted. If he had the power to cure, heal and institute tolerance for a select few, why didn't he cure diseases, e.g., leprosy, feed the poor (not just a wedding party) and bring brotherly love to the world?


John 9: 1-25
Matthew 9:1-8
Matt 14:13-21
Luke 17:11-19
James 2: 15-16
Matthew 25:31-26

Here is a good site to look up all those verses with. I can provide more if you need them.

Link
Hi Nash,

And, another good site for finding Bible passages is Link -- the Blue Letter Bible web site.

This site allows you to view Scripture verses from 12 different English translations (plus translations in Spanish, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin at the same time); or to choose to read a passage from any one of those translations.

It also offers commentaries and the Strong's Concordance for all the Bible.

I have found this site to be a great resource for my writings.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
"One day, David, whether you want to accept it now or not -- you will stand before God, Jesus Christ, and have to answer for your life on earth."

And boy, will I give them an earfull. They have done tremendous mental and physical damage by butting into the affairs of men. Is is as dispicable as Hitler butting into the affairs of the German people.

Bill, don't you get tired of making excuses for Christ's ineptitude as a teacher? Stop blaiming it on humankind. The guy had very little to say that was worthwhile, and he had no teaching skills.

Hi David,

Yes, that day will be interesting. However, I have to excuse myself -- I will not be there for YOUR day in court. I will preparing for my trip into eternity with the Lord. So, let me wish you a fond adieu and adios now. It does appear that you have already punched your own ticket on that downward train.

Too bad, the Glory Train will be much more comfortable -- and eternally sweeter.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
Nash,

What would you say if the Beatitudes were not original to Jesus?

Link

This is one of several I've seen, from sources interested more in history than polemics, that suggests the Sermon on the Mount was not original.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Nash, What would you say if the Beatitudes were not original to Jesus? This is one of several I've seen, from sources interested more in history than polemics, that suggests the Sermon on the Mount was not original. DF

Hi Deep,

Dig deep enough in the barnyard and you can find almost anything your little heart desires; as I am sure you already know.

Regardless if what you find in your barnyard; the Bible is the Word of God -- and all your atheist trashing will not change this one bit.

But, keep digging. If you dig far enough; you might even find Darwin there.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
quote:
This one is a little strange: You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

What do you make of that one, Nash?


The accepted application of that talmudic commandment is, thou shalt not eat a cheeseburger. Held rather strenuously by orthodox Jews.

And they were talking about a baby goat; not a, you know, child. I'm pretty sure you had that already, though.

Just trying to help.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Nash,

What would you say if the Beatitudes were not original to Jesus?

Link

This is one of several I've seen, from sources interested more in history than polemics, that suggests the Sermon on the Mount was not original.

DF


I had completely forgotten Jesus was a Buddhist. I guess next you'll claim He was a Darwinist as well.
"I had completely forgotten Jesus was a Buddhist. I guess next you'll claim He was a Darwinist as well."

Oh heck, it doesn't matter that you thought he was a Buddhist. A myth is a myth by any religious appellation.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×