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It is one of those things that is hard to believe. On the other hand you're tempted to say, "of course they're going to start that kind of crap". Anyone opposing this will be labeled a racist, a hater, and anything else the left can throw at them. We're not supposed to label people, but we're supposed to sit back and be labeled and just take it. Sharing is one thing, being taken over is another.

There are businesses that "ban" full face masks, even during the winter. One that I frequent has a sign on the door during winter telling people to take them off before entering. People have no problem and will do that. Good luck telling them to uncover their faces IF they're muslims or claim to be muslims. You'll get a ****storm thrown at you. We ran into one at the mall a few weeks ago, full black garb from head to toe. The thing that was so "unsettling" was the size of the person. HUGE! Tall and big, and drenched in perfume. You could smell them 10 feet away. They were creeping everyone out because of their size, and people were commenting that it had to be a man, and a big one at that, under all that mess. We didn't stay there. 

 

Last edited by Bestworking

Well, I don't like it !  They could not have picked a worse date to "rally", kinda like if the Japanese decided to march complaining about the atomic bombs , and they did it on Dec 7th.

On the other hand, if the likes of Glen Beck can have a rally in DC, I guess this bunch can't be much worse, and although all the Al Quada people were some radical  off shoot of Islam, it was NOT the Islamic faith that did that. Just like lots of other, less spectacular acts of terror in this country are committed by Christians, does not mean the Christian faith is doing it.

This IS America , where you have the right to your own belief and the freedom to verbally express it guaranteed by the Constitution (unless you are at a town meeting of Rick Santorum).

While I may detest something like this rally, I will defend their right to have it.

 

Before US entry in WWII, the German American Bund (NSDAP front) had a rally in the old Madison Square Garden.  Some government officials tried to stop it. J. Edgar Hoover helped over rule their objects as the rally was completely within the citizens' rights. 

 

FBI agents attended, some as reporters, took many pictures, recorded attendee lists, and vehicle tag numbers.  After Germany declared war, the FBI rounded up 5,000 Bundists, many under arms and uniformed.  Hoover opposed locking up Japanese-American citizens.  But was over ruled by FDR. 

 

At a minimum, the state anti-mask laws should be enforced.  If the KKK can't wear them, why should the Islamists be allowed.

They should have no more or less rights than any other American. I agree the date is wrong on so many levels. I also agree that Glenn Beck using the MLK date was unsettling too. Yet, I didn't see anyone really throwing up much of a ruckus about it either. 

 

The only time I say someone is being racist is when they allow Christians to get away with trampling all over the SOCAS and yet raise all kinds of hell when its Muslims trying to do the same thing. Personally, I think all religions are and can be very dangerous to society. I don't see one being any worse than the other. 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

They should have no more or less rights than any other American. I agree the date is wrong on so many levels. I also agree that Glenn Beck using the MLK date was unsettling too. Yet, I didn't see anyone really throwing up much of a ruckus about it either. 

 

The only time I say someone is being racist is when they allow Christians to get away with trampling all over the SOCAS and yet raise all kinds of hell when its Muslims trying to do the same thing. Personally, I think all religions are and can be very dangerous to society. I don't see one being any worse than the other. 

You have to be kidding name one country where the majority is muslin and they are tolerant of others and have freedom.  islam can be a peaceful religion but has been totally hijacked by the extremist.

I thought we were talking about America. The difference in this country and many countries where Islam is the majority religion, is that it is also the government. 

 

If some of the Christians here in the US had their way Christianity would be the law of the land. If we ever see that happen then you will also see how violent and extreme they will become. Even when it is something as simple as prayer led by school officials. I have seen where the Christians start threatening those that oppose it and stand behind SOCAS. In the case of Jessica Alquist last year the Christians called for the students in the school to beat her. They even called her evil and in one case said she should be raped. She had to have a police escort to attend classes. 

 

Yes they are the same. The only thing that stops either group is our Constitution. Those that fight against the Establishment Clause seem to not understand that simple fact.

Please, I travel to many countries and never have had to avoid a Christian, Jewish, Hindu etc area but have to do that in muslim areas.  Great Britain has an entire sections of the the city of London that are basically muslim controlled and violent.  Think that is not what they have in store for America think again.  Yes there are crazy people who do wrong that claim to be Christian but they are the exception and 99 percent of Christians would not side with them,  The exact opposite is true of Islam I mean give me a break million man march on 9/11.   They have the right under our Constitution to do it but that does not make it right.  In the past awful things were done in the name of the church but Christians have moved away from that but Islam still believes literally convert or die infidel.

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

I thought we were talking about America. The difference in this country and many countries where Islam is the majority religion, is that it is also the government. 

 

If some of the Christians here in the US had their way Christianity would be the law of the land. If we ever see that happen then you will also see how violent and extreme they will become. Even when it is something as simple as prayer led by school officials. I have seen where the Christians start threatening those that oppose it and stand behind SOCAS. In the case of Jessica Alquist last year the Christians called for the students in the school to beat her. They even called her evil and in one case said she should be raped. She had to have a police escort to attend classes. 

 

Yes they are the same. The only thing that stops either group is our Constitution. Those that fight against the Establishment Clause seem to not understand that simple fact.

**********

Jank, you might find this book interesting:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/...153-christian-nation

 

Here is one online review:

 

"For those who see this novel as "liberal hyperbole" or "anti-Christian" I'd counter that it is anything but that. It is a warning of what could happen should the fundamentalist dominionists succeed in executing their agenda--and they do have an agenda. I was raised in an evangelical household and value the separation of church and state as the basis of freedom in this country. Being able to choose to worship in the manner each of us would choose, is a precious right and it should not be taken from us by those who practice another religion or those who interpret the Bible in a different way than you or I might interpret the Bible. It should also not be taken from us by those who would reinterpret the Constitution or rewrite American history. 

As a novel, it's not well constructed, but the narrative provides the means to convey the message and show a plausible, compelling strategy for stripping basic civil liberties, installing a totalitarian regime in the name of Jesus. Highly recommend this as a summer must read."

 

I have it checked out from the Florence-Lauderdale Public Library, but will soon return it.

The only way that could happen in America is if the Christians continue to tear down the wall of separation. Our founding fathers put it there for a reason and it had nothing to do with Muslims. The only thing that stopped the Christian violence and terrorism of other religions was our Constitution. They didn't just get together and decide to stop burning people at the stake. The Salem witch trials was before our country was won and before our Constitution. 

 

If you think history can not repeat itself then you are sadly mistaken. As an atheist I have personally experienced the "love, and kindness" of Christianity. The only thing that keeps them from "sending all the atheist out of this Christian nation" or " Killing all the atheist so that they can finally see there is a God" is the Constitution and the law that upholds it. Take away the restraints that our Constitution puts on religious rule and you would see the same kind of hate and violence you see with Muslims who have been given the authority by their governments to kill anyone that doesn't agree or convert. 

 

However, we are talking about America and in America Muslims have the same rights as Christians to rally or protest. They have the same right to worship as Christians or any other religion.

 

There are no more crazies in one than the other. 

 

http://www.examiner.com/articl...ats-aimed-at-atheist

http://www.examiner.com/slides...eath-threats#slide=1

 

http://morallowground.com/2012...ayer-banner-lawsuit/

 

Of course not ALL Christians agree with those that make threats of violence against those that don't believe as they do...neither do ALL Muslims. I worked with a Muslim for over 4 years and he was appalled at what happened on 9/11. He did not believe the Koran was to be used as the basis to commit violence against none believers. He treated me better and with more respect than many Christians have when they found out I was atheist. 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

 

It's scary as crap to think how many of them are already in the country buying up businesses, land, moving into government, our military, everywhere. There are school systems that have asked them how they can make our PUBLIC schools more "muslim friendly". 

_____________

 

If this is not racist I don't know what is. "Them" moving in and working in our government, and military.... owning businesses, land!!! How dare "them"!! 

 

The only thing I agree with you on is that they should keep their religion out of our schools. And most definitely out of our laws. I feel the same way about Christians. If we stand firm in our Constitution and ensure the SOCAS then we have nothing to fear. That is what makes its so great!

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

I thought we were talking about America. The difference in this country and many countries where Islam is the majority religion, is that it is also the government. 

 

If some of the Christians here in the US had their way Christianity would be the law of the land. If we ever see that happen then you will also see how violent and extreme they will become. Even when it is something as simple as prayer led by school officials. I have seen where the Christians start threatening those that oppose it and stand behind SOCAS. In the case of Jessica Alquist last year the Christians called for the students in the school to beat her. They even called her evil and in one case said she should be raped. She had to have a police escort to attend classes. 

 

Yes they are the same. The only thing that stops either group is our Constitution. Those that fight against the Establishment Clause seem to not understand that simple fact.

**********

Jank, you might find this book interesting:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/...153-christian-nation

 

Here is one online review:

 

"For those who see this novel as "liberal hyperbole" or "anti-Christian" I'd counter that it is anything but that. It is a warning of what could happen should the fundamentalist dominionists succeed in executing their agenda--and they do have an agenda. I was raised in an evangelical household and value the separation of church and state as the basis of freedom in this country. Being able to choose to worship in the manner each of us would choose, is a precious right and it should not be taken from us by those who practice another religion or those who interpret the Bible in a different way than you or I might interpret the Bible. It should also not be taken from us by those who would reinterpret the Constitution or rewrite American history. 

As a novel, it's not well constructed, but the narrative provides the means to convey the message and show a plausible, compelling strategy for stripping basic civil liberties, installing a totalitarian regime in the name of Jesus. Highly recommend this as a summer must read."

 

I have it checked out from the Florence-Lauderdale Public Library, but will soon return it.

_________________________________

Yes, but you are quoting from a fiction, In Europe and the middle east, we have experience with reality -- not a version of Sharknado.

If you do not see the difference between all other religions and the violence attributed to islam then you are not watching the news. "any news"  I get from all your post you have a grudge against Christians because you are a atheist but the reality is radical islam is a problem world wide.  I am still waiting for a mass demonstration against the violence from the muslim extremist in the U.S. where they are free to express their opinions without fearing repressions.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

 

It's scary as crap to think how many of them are already in the country buying up businesses, land, moving into government, our military, everywhere. There are school systems that have asked them how they can make our PUBLIC schools more "muslim friendly". 

======

Which is the exact reason forced prayer in the public schools was stopped back in the 60's , and we would do well to continue that policy. Mississippi recently passed a law putting forced prayer back in their schools. Lets all hope that is a policy they will not live to regret.

 

Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:

If you do not see the difference between all other religions and the violence attributed to islam then you are not watching the news. "any news"  I get from all your post you have a grudge against Christians because you are a atheist but the reality is radical islam is a problem world wide.  I am still waiting for a mass demonstration against the violence from the muslim extremist in the U.S. where they are free to express their opinions without fearing repressions.

----------------------------------------------

I'm an atheist but I do see what you're talking about. You are absolutely correct that it is the christians that are always brought up as being the problem. Speak out about islam and you're a bigot and being "unfair" to the "good muslims". I've posted about overboard christians, and I do have a problem with the "fundies". I have also pointed out that the left uses religion just as much or more than the right. What's the difference in one saying "god wants back in our schools" and another one going into churches to campaign, saying "jesus wants you to vote democrat"? Now, with that said, I have to say that I do not want religion in our public schools. But when i say that, I mean ALL religion. That does not mean that I will say no praying at ballgames, then turn around and support the idea that we have to make our schools "muslim friendly". 

Why are they even here? They have money. They have religious freedom in the countries they left. They don't want to change, they want to live just as if they were still in those countries, and demand that we change and pay to accommodate them. We are supposed to change, not them, not muslim countries. The people born and raised in this country should not be asked, much less forced, to do that. Then they act like they don't understand our resentment, and the left, to get those votes and that support, runs to pat their heads and promise to make it all better. BS.  You want a spot to kneel and pray three times a day? You want separate bathrooms and cafeterias? Then maybe you need to keep your *** at home, because that isn't what we do in this county. Don't like it? Go back to where you came from. 

That also goes for all of them that come here and want us to change to suit them. 

Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:

If you do not see the difference between all other religions and the violence attributed to islam then you are not watching the news. "any news"  I get from all your post you have a grudge against Christians because you are a atheist but the reality is radical islam is a problem world wide.  I am still waiting for a mass demonstration against the violence from the muslim extremist in the U.S. where they are free to express their opinions without fearing repressions.

_____________________

 

I don't have a grudge against Christians. Most everyone in my family are Christians and I love them very much. I also don't disagree that radical Islam is a problem. What I do disagree with is that we should treat ALL Muslims different than Christians because of it. This is America. Are you suggesting that we should not allow Muslim Americans the same rights that Christians have? 

 

All the Abrahamic religions have elements of violence and persecution of those that disagree in them. If you allowed the Christians to control this country through legislature you would in fact see it come out just as it did in the past. Our Constitution is what keeps us from being in that situation here. Start tearing it down to accommodate any of them and it will come unraveled. Tear it down to persecute any one of them and you will get the same result. 

 

This is not an issue of Christians vs Muslims. As much as the two would like it to be. This is an issue of the American Constitution and the freedoms and rights we have under it. Also the protections it affords us all. 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:

If you do not see the difference between all other religions and the violence attributed to islam then you are not watching the news. "any news"  I get from all your post you have a grudge against Christians because you are a atheist but the reality is radical islam is a problem world wide.  I am still waiting for a mass demonstration against the violence from the muslim extremist in the U.S. where they are free to express their opinions without fearing repressions.

----------------------------------------------

I'm an atheist but I do see what you're talking about. You are absolutely correct that it is the christians that are always brought up as being the problem. Speak out about islam and you're a bigot and being "unfair" to the "good muslims". I've posted about overboard christians, and I do have a problem with the "fundies". I have also pointed out that the left uses religion just as much or more than the right. What's the difference in one saying "god wants back in our schools" and another one going into churches to campaign, saying "jesus wants you to vote democrat"? Now, with that said, I have to say that I do not want religion in our public schools. But when i say that, I mean ALL religion. That does not mean that I will say no praying at ballgames, then turn around and support the idea that we have to make our schools "muslim friendly". 

Why are they even here? They have money. They have religious freedom in the countries they left. They don't want to change, they want to live just as if they were still in those countries, and demand that we change and pay to accommodate them. We are supposed to change, not them, not muslim countries. The people born and raised in this country should not be asked, much less forced, to do that. Then they act like they don't understand our resentment, and the left, to get those votes and that support, runs to pat their heads and promise to make it all better. BS.  You want a spot to kneel and pray three times a day? You want separate bathrooms and cafeterias? Then maybe you need to keep your *** at home, because that isn't what we do in this county. Don't like it? Go back to where you came from. 

That also goes for all of them that come here and want us to change to suit them. 

_______________________

 

So you don't think there are Muslims that were born and raised in America? 

 

Why are "they" here? Many reasons.. The Muslim that I worked with moved his family here to escape the government in his country. Yes it allowed him to have freedom to practice his religion because it was the law of the land there. The problem was that those that enforced the law could decide to apply it any way they interpreted the Koran, based on their own twisting of the meanings. They used the religion to justify killing people without fair trials. His daughters would be denied an education under the religious laws. He is Muslim, but he is not a radical. He loves America because he can practice his religion freely, but the government is secular and it give him and his family the opportunity to live in peace. 

 

Apparently you and others here can't wrap your minds around the fact that there really are Muslims that are peaceful. Just as there are extremist Christians, there are extremist Muslims. As I said before they are no different. You can't paint them all with the same broad brush. 

Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

I thought we were talking about America. The difference in this country and many countries where Islam is the majority religion, is that it is also the government. 

 

If some of the Christians here in the US had their way Christianity would be the law of the land. If we ever see that happen then you will also see how violent and extreme they will become. Even when it is something as simple as prayer led by school officials. I have seen where the Christians start threatening those that oppose it and stand behind SOCAS. In the case of Jessica Alquist last year the Christians called for the students in the school to beat her. They even called her evil and in one case said she should be raped. She had to have a police escort to attend classes. 

 

Yes they are the same. The only thing that stops either group is our Constitution. Those that fight against the Establishment Clause seem to not understand that simple fact.

**********

Jank, you might find this book interesting:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/...153-christian-nation

 

Here is one online review:

 

"For those who see this novel as "liberal hyperbole" or "anti-Christian" I'd counter that it is anything but that. It is a warning of what could happen should the fundamentalist dominionists succeed in executing their agenda--and they do have an agenda. I was raised in an evangelical household and value the separation of church and state as the basis of freedom in this country. Being able to choose to worship in the manner each of us would choose, is a precious right and it should not be taken from us by those who practice another religion or those who interpret the Bible in a different way than you or I might interpret the Bible. It should also not be taken from us by those who would reinterpret the Constitution or rewrite American history. 

As a novel, it's not well constructed, but the narrative provides the means to convey the message and show a plausible, compelling strategy for stripping basic civil liberties, installing a totalitarian regime in the name of Jesus. Highly recommend this as a summer must read."

 

I have it checked out from the Florence-Lauderdale Public Library, but will soon return it.

_________________________________

Yes, but you are quoting from a fiction, In Europe and the middle east, we have experience with reality -- not a version of Sharknado.

*************

Try reading for the purpose of understanding what is written.  I quoted NOTHING from fiction.  I quoted from a book review. If you have not read the book, you are in no position to critique it.  Your "Sharknado" characterization is fatuous!!

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